So much sad news going on around the country with the discovery of little Somer Thompson's body, and now Elizabeth O's in Missouri. While my heart is extremely heavy today in light of the news of both discoveries, I am feeling an overwhelming sense of sadness ... for our Lindsey.
Please let the answers that have been so desperately sought in finding Lindsey, not only by LE, but by her many devoted volunteers as well, be forthcoming soon. It's Lindsey's turn.
Are the truths so buried under lies, deceit, deviousness and evil that it makes what's going on in Florida & Missouri look, for lack of a better word, "normal"? Are we at that terrible point?
What part of her case makes it so that the "text-book procedures" applied in other cases has not already shined the light of the truth for Lindsey?
Where are you Lindsey Baum, sweet child? God, please help this child find a way to reveal herself to us. Help those that search for Lindsey to find her.
You're in my prayers always Lindsey, and I light a candle for you tonight ~ The others are home now.... it's your turn precious little girl.
I agree in a perfect world know one should ever have to go through this, but watch the news and we find it seems to be a daily occurence. It is only my own feeling that I find the crime scene tape being kept on the door when it could be removed odd because I correlate the yellow tape with a homocide in my mind. The public does know that when the yellow tape goes up no one is allowed in that area. I respect your thoughts on this because I can tell you are a sweet person looking for the good in all and the worl needs more of that. When I'm on W/S I'm here to slueth clues to locate a child. I try to take off my social worker hat when I log in and switch to my Spock hat. These crimes can you make you physically sick when you look at what the child goes through when accosted.
F " All You Need Is Love !"
~~ HAPPY MOTHERS DAY~~
" The Greatest gift you can give another is the purity of your attentions " Gray Wats
Lindsey Love You're A
" FIREWORK "
~"Come on baby show'em what your worth, Come on let your colors burst feeling brighter than the moon as you shoot across the sky, MAKE'EM GO, AH! ,AH! ,AH!...~
One Republic - "Come Home"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvA7Ej9N_5Y
Family friends son Stefano Langone from Kent Wa. won his Golden Ticket to Hollywood ! Enjoy the listen ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq299kOo6C8 Soulful Spirit...
However, your question is very significant because the answer could have a major impact on how this case is handled. Unfortunately, this may be one question that we will never be privy to. Josh is underage and the mother has yet to offer any information about Lindsey which could help us find Lindsey.
Disclaimer: Any and All comments by me are my thoughts and opinions
Last edited by CorallaroC; 11-03-2009 at 04:27 AM. Reason: clarification
I feel so lost in the knowledge that this "Lovely Little Angel" is still Lost, no clues, no POI. I can't get her out of my thoughts. I want justice for Lindsey, I want her mother, family, friends, and all those helping and sluething to have peace in the knowlege she is resting in peace. We can't have that till she is found and brought home! It is just so hard to comprehend lost without a trace, no evidence, and in this day of technology and with all the hard work put forth I find the whole idea damn scary. I live close by so realy scary.
The fact there is nothing to go on says to me this person is not a first time 'abductor/killer' or they have a whole lot of helpers. I get that this is Washington State and there are alot of woods and many places that are not visited by foot, car, people,etc.. for long stretches of time if not years inbetween but nothing on the street, nothing seen, nothing heard, just boggles my mind. I mean if my dog barks I look, if I pass a window and see someone or something out side I look if I think what I see is suspiciouse to me I let them know I am looking etc. I know McCleary must be racking their brains for clues, trying to remeber if they seen something and still nothing so hard to wrap my head around that. We are talking neighborhood here houses one after the other in the middle of town, at the begining of summer something!!! sorry so long. so sad and confused Luna_Myst....
I find DG is still a POI in my mind for a lot of reasons. Here are facts as stated in the Affidavit.
1. The possible sighting of him and his car on 6/26 near the last spot
Lindsey was known to have been seen.
2. The sudden changes in his cell phone usage the night she went
3. The remarks his girl/friend made about him talking about the
case, his 'over the top' & 'obsessive' intrest in the case and the
remark about his disbelief at a young girl being kidnapped,
murdered, and dismembered!
4. He was suspended from youth camp job 6/7/09 to 6/27/09 returned to work at youth camp on 6/28/09, he was on his regularly schedule days off from the Beehive on 6/26 and 6/27/09.
5. Misbehavior and disruptive at work, can't seem to stay focused on
6. Followed MB when she drove by Beehive while he was working, because he thought it might be suspicious and could be connected to Lindsey's disappearance or the other story he told a fellow emplyee about the other car maybe stalking his car for parts.
7. In 2000 he is babysitting a girl and her brothers. He watches porn with them, askes the girl to have sex with him, barricades her in a room for 2 hours. He removed her clothes and tried to have sex with her.
I find DG is still a POI in my mind for a lot of reasons. Here are facts as stated in the Affidavit with my opinions/theories inserted along with those facts. I hope this is ok and I hope its length will be forgiven. If for any reason there is something here I should not have done please feel free to remove it. Thank You in advance Luna_Myst.
(1)DG could have picked Lindsey up took her to a safer spot not far
away, secured her so she couldn't get away or had others involved to
hold her at said place while he then cruised back to the scene of the
crime(where a witness thinks they seen and heard his car at or
around 10pm) to see if alarms were being set off, and to what
degree? Such as were the cops there, were poeple looking, or to see if mom was searching?
Maybe it was too deside if he was good to go and no one noticed or
if he needed to move her in order to do what he wanted. Would be
nice to know if anyone else seen him. Mom in a panick looking may
not have noticed, friends calming her down and helping her look may not
(2)DG's lack of cell phone usage that night per the pattern noticed by
detectives, if he did do something to Lindsey it would be understood why this happend.
(3)DG's 'over the top' intrest in the missing girl wouldn't be such a
concern to me since he lives there and it is something to worry
about and be shocked over. The part that concerns me was his girlfriend
telling the detective he said early sat (26th) or sunday (27th) 'he
could not believe that a girl had been taken, cut up, and
dismembered' (she could have been his 6am call)
(4)DG's inability to remember where or what he was doing on June 26, 2009. Ok I am not good with dates, but if there are things that stand out around a date it will stick. Now they (detective) called DG on 6/29 He stated he was not working at beehive that night (6/26) but was working at youth camp. Who forgets they were suspended from work? (He had something 'big' to keep these dates in mind. A girl goes missing on 6/26 he has 'over the top and obsessive conversations about this event'. He was suspended from work at youth camp for 21 days, I find it hard to believe he was unable to recall this info for the detective asking where he was the night she disapered! He returned to work at youth camp on 6/28 just two days after Lindsey goes missing again an event he had 'over the top and obsessive conversations about' during the prior two days w/girlfriend.) The day after phone call with detective he returns to work at youth camp. Even if he was nervouse and afraid as it is something seriouse surrounding these dates they are asking him about. The truth beats a lie anyday provided your not involved. JMO.
(5)DG's being disruptive and misbehaving at work (wonders if there
were patterns of calm, good work, then patterns of misbehaving
disruptive behavior, and having to be brought back to task.) After all
it is a youth camp could he have been fighting urges? He had been
sent home with out pay a shift at a time in the past for misbehavior
as stated by his boss at the camp. Wish we had spacifics on this
(6)DG follows MB's car after midnight, leaves work to do so after telling a coworker that he thinks this car (which is same model as his I gather) is out to steal parts from his car. He gets pulled over after
MB calls police and states she is being followed. DG tells cops he
thought car was suspiscious and mite be involved with missing
Lindsey. He later tells coworker he called the cops about it, neglects
to mention he was following her and got pulled over himself.
Pathalogical liar or what? I think he knew who's car it was, so what
was he doing trying to scare her, making a statement to her that he
was not scared but she should be? Did he get some kind of kicks out
of watching mom retrace her daughters last steps? Kind of reminds
me of other crimes where the indavidual at fault for the crime taunts
the family with calls, letters to the media, etc. Something along those lines. Was this intimadation, curiousity or something else altogether?
(7)DG's problem with the girl he was babysitting some years ago says plenty (yes close in age, but it was no simple boy & girl messing around, there was some prep involved or even premeditation, porn on one occasion, then he asked her to have sex she refuses, then he baricades her in a room for 2 hours and trys to force her.) Not to mention he was in a position of authority with this girl. I don't feel he would have an issue picking a girl up and not letting her out of his car.
Just my thoughts..Sprinkled with some facts.
Watching Monk tonight this theory, or part of one, popped right into my head. Crazy maybe, but it might not be really out of the box considering all that we have read in the case.
I think Lindsey:
* had been given a look-see by DG in innocent places where no one was around. Thus he could say he didn't know her.
* not long before the 26th she saw him somewhere and he said something provocative to her which scared her. He also tried to get her gf in his car, offering to let her drive. He wanted a young girl and either would do.
* when she reached 3 houses before Kara's she saw the white car she had seen him drive around town and she was panicked as he was too close for comfort. She begged MK to ask Kara if she could spend the night with her, which was a no.
* she was seen by the witness Rena who was outside visiting a friend and was not far from Kara's house, saw the argument, asked JB to go home and then within 5 to 7 min or so saw Lindsey start back on her walk home. She also saw something else that she wished she hadn't and was fearful for letting out that info.
* Lindsey saw DG look at her as she walked past the house, and at 9:27 saw him stop talking on his cellie and put it back in his pocket. He was probably hot to trot after talking to this gal C and seeing Lindsey brought him the opportunity he wanted to take.
*She walked down to 6th when she heard the pipes of the car begin to roar. She cut S on 6th walking speedily down to Fir to cut through an area she figured safer than Maple.
* I think several times she heard the car and then she spotted it coming toward her as she rounded Main, or somewhere in that area.
* Somewhere between 6th and the bridge she was cornered by him and he took her off guard with a present, offer of something cool, etc. so she got in the car willingly. Not even a dropped slip on was found.
* I think he drove S on 3rd down to Cedar St and went E to the dirt road that leads up to the water tower. He cut off on a little logging road where he assulted her and she hit her head and died, or SS.
* He could have driven with her past her house on Mommsen St with the ruse of taking her home. There are a couple, at least one, logging roads that cut S from there down to the area of the water tower. He could have gone that way, and then when done exited out by Cedar St to 3rd.
* I think from the time he got her in the car until she was dead and he was back up in the Maple St neighborhood it was about 1/2 hour, or around 10pm and his car was heard then by a witness.
* I think he parked his car and carried her like she was alive, holding her upright against him as he walked so it would appear they were just a couple.
* I think he took her into that vacant apt Jvk saw at the Beehive that was dirty and as rumor has it was used by kids as a lover's hangout or party place. It would look pretty normal, him going in there IMO. And he hid her in there in a closet or behind something temporarily.
* He knew the Beehive well as he worked there, felt it was a comfort zone as it wouldn't be odd if his car was seen around it. And then he went home and went to bed.
That's it so far, except I think he had assistance from a relative for advice on where to move her. That person used a different vehicle to move her the next night or so IMO. Could even be a SO type guy who lived down in the Old Sand Creek Rd area. That is the guy who would have her smell of death on his clothes, fibres in his car or leaked bodily fluids as he lifted her body out of the car and disposed of her.
It explains why they didn't find anything at the Golder property. She was only 1/2 hour dead when he put her in that apt. And if he wrapped her in anything handy he had in his car, any evidence left like hair could have been vacuumed away. It also explains the Astros thought she was moved once. It also explains why he might be paranoid seeing MB driving close to the Beehive. He knew where she had been put for a short time and wondered if she was snooping around, maybe having heard someone say they saw him walking into the Beehive complex about 10pm after she went missing, if he did this.
Lots of holes here I know and I have included some things I have read that are not verified but make sense IMO. It is the only way to put this theory in writing so it makes sense. And I think it explains so much we have learned in the case.
What 'cha think? xox
I'm still pretty new here and in the process of reading through all the background information -- wow, you guys have done an incredible job here. You've kept track of an amazing amount of information and kept the hope alive for Lindsey.
I have a question that I'm not clear on based on what I've read so far. I see that Lindsey's father is in the military. And her parents are divorced? And her mother wasn't seeing anybody at this time?
Do I have that right? Thanks in advance for clarifying.
Last edited by ChuckMaureen; 11-07-2009 at 11:35 PM. Reason: ETA: added photobucket pic link
I think we all wondered about that as to if she had a BF. We didn't learn anything about her having one that I heard. It is interesting tho that quite recently she wrote a blurb on her MS how she would like to meet someone. I can't remember her exact words, but I thought it sounded like she'd like to have a male friend. xox
No one ever reported that boy as missing and no one ever claimed the boy's body. Detectives took up a collection and provided a proper burial for the boy. Some tips and leads seemd promising but none panned out.
Since then, many of the detectives have since passed ... and the case remains unsolved.
So, if there is *karma* ... when does it show justice?
I do not suspect MB, nor JB ... there was not enough time for either one to do anything, assuming MB reached out to LB's friends parents not too long after 9:30 pm.
Do we know the time MB stated she started searching for LB? Did MB tell JB to stay at home or did MB call someone to come to the house and stay with JB while she searched with Kadence?
Also, regarding the 6 searches of JM's ditch. Either LE suspected LB went swimming there that evening after leaving KK's house ... or LE was anticipating someone to place her there after it was initially and subsequently searched the 2nd or 3rd time.
Did someone report hearing screaming, splashing or other noise coming from the direction of the JM ditch that evening?
I saw a brief clip of JM being interviewed while LE searched the property .. he seemed clueless as to exactly why ... I do not believe he is involved, nor do I believe he knows why they searched 6 times.
And, how did the search the culverts? Using DWV cameras? If they did not then that's a problem. If they searched by watching what comes out at the open areas of the creek, then that was a lazy search. Unless they send remote cams up the pipes, no one can be sure what might in those pipes.
Why did they keep secret the mismatched bathing suit? Well, LB must have been wearing the suit under her hoodie and jeans ... if someone mentioned what LB was wearing *before* that clothing description was released, then LE might have their perp.
But, I find it odd that LE eventually did release that information. Why? Or did they? Was it inadvertently leaked from another source?
LB's MySpace entry. The phrase haunts me. LB created a new MySpace page on May 29 @ 6:04 am. What played out in LB's brain during the 2 1/2 hours between from when she created that particular page (she had more than one) and when she posted this comment @ 8:48 am: "i've been getting a lot of nightmares latley [sic] and i have this bad feeling something bads [sic] gonna happen"
What were the nightmares? What was 'this bad feeling'? Note: not *a* bad feeling ... it was *this* bad feeling. She was feeling something very specific. LB's mood entry at that moment: 'scared'
We may assume 'this bad feeling' caused her to be 'scared' ... but of what?
Was LB communicating with someone on MS during those 2 1/2 hours? If so, with whom and why did the nightmares become forefront and why was she 'scared'?
What was LB doing during those 2 1/2 hours? That is a *key* question.
Was she logged in and browsing MS the entire time or did she log in to her other page (DISTURBED) or a friends page?
And does LB's bedrooom being yellow-police-taped have anything to do with that MySpace episode?
Perhaps LB wrote other commentary ... in a book, on scrap paper or perhaps ... she whispered something in KK's ear one evening and KK is totally unaware of the importance.
What were those whispered words?
I was also wondering whether she might have tried to run away to get to her father in ?Tennessee?
Last edited by carbuff; 11-08-2009 at 10:18 PM.
re: ChuckMaureen post #115 above
"And, how did they search the culverts? Using DWV cameras?...Unless they send remote cams up the pipes, no one can be sure what might in those pipes."
This is a subject that has been heavy on my mind lately. One cubic yard of water weighs over 2,200 pounds (that's not very much water in the outdoor environment).
When we are talking about heavy rains and storm sewers, the force of flowing water can be unbelievable. Even when (or especially when) a culvert or drain has tree/plant roots growing inside of it, an object (or body, sigh, sorry) can be wedged so far into the plant debris, it would be a huge challenge even for experts.
It worries me.
What I learned tho was there are 2 culverts that run side by side criss-crossing under the town of McCleary from NE to SW. One is 3' across and the other 4' if I remember right. Also, there are only 3 places in town where the creek is exposed. One at the bridge off Mommsen, one at the water treatment plant up past Kara's house and the other I believe is where the creek comes out N of Hwy 8 and flows under it into Sand Creek lake/pond. Maybe it is culverted to the little lake as I don't see it on a map as the creek running under the freeway.
I'd like to know what the exposed area by the water treatment center looks like. Is it accessible, somewhat hidden?
Still looking Scandi
PS: I fixed your link in the previous post and here but can't in the original. You need to put the [URL boxes around your link ;}
Last edited by scandi; 11-09-2009 at 02:33 AM.
Working on a mini notebook thing, no mouse and the screen is the size of my cell phone, lol. Look for better pics tomorrow. I have seen photos of the McCleary WWTP, but can't remember where. Maybe on the NPDES permit site?