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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangledweb View Post
    Well, in the article below, Bartt referenced Suzie being stabbed with a fork, so it can be assumed the reporter brought it up. There must have been a source that the reporter got it from. Being "stabbed with a fork" or "having bruises all over" didn't just materialize out of thin air. Suzie or her mother more then likely told someone about the fight and just because there are no medical records doesn't prove anything. The wound could have been superficial and didn't require medical attention or Suzie didn't seek medical attention because it was a family matter.

    Whatever way it happened is really immaterial. We do know there was a fight.

    As far as looking further into the kidnapping attempt, what would be the purpose?
    The police report states that he attempted to forcefully take the girl from the arms of the babysitter several times, that he flicked a cigarette into the child's face, that he was violent while detained and was peppersprayed, that he used foul language in front of women and children, that he threatened bodily harm to those around him, that a stipulation of his probation/parole was that his home be checked for stolen property and obtain counseling for impulse control and anger management.

    I don't need documentation from a hospital or a shrink to prove he's violent and exhibits sociopathic tendencies. It's obvious that he's a violent person and many things point to him being a suspect. I'm looking at a pattern of violence that continues till the present day in Punta Gorda, FL, not a few isolated incidents. The fact that he doesn't even provide support for his own children and has three DUI's doesn't help his case either.

    Instead of me always having to prove and backup my view that he's a very good suspect, how about some proof from someone that he couldn't have done it?
    Like his alibi, for instance. He was drunk on someone's couch, therefore he couldn't have done it? He was fishing at Truman Lake, therefore he coudn't have done it? We've never actually heard exactly what he was doing when the women disappeared. Why all the hush-hush around his alibi? Are we afraid that it might be picked apart?
    You are free to believe whatever you choose. I want to deal only in facts, not rumors. Some of Suzie’s best friends are on record as saying that there was no stabbing or bruising at the time of what amounted to a shoving match between her and Bartt; and that Suzie did not sustain any injuries; certainly not any puncture injuries as a result of their fight. My research has not uncovered any facts that would substantiate the rumor of the stabbing (and by the way it was being told at one time that the stabbing was with a knife). The last time this alleged stabbing came up in thread #3 here on WS Kathee said that it didn’t happen either. You don’t know that the N-L asked Bartt about it, as you assume, and that if he had not responded to the rumors of him having stabbed his sister when he made his comment then you would not know anything about it at all. But if you want to continue to believe it, be my guest.

    I still would recommend that you look into it further in order to get to the truth as to what really happened there. The fact that you believe that he is violent and a sociopath in his post-abduction behavior and he may very well be, has no bearing on this case involving his mother and sister and would probably not be admissible in a court of law.

    If it is your theory that he committed this crime then it is up to you to present your evidence as it would be presented in a court of law, as it pertains to this case. To just say “I have a theory, prove me wrong” gets us nowhere. No one has time for that.

    All of these kinds of rumors have been looked into immensely by LE and news investigators in an effort to try and prove them or not. And suspects too. I traveled some distance to look at a court record file and was required to sign a log sheet that was kept in the file so that court records could keep track of who had been into the file. As I signed it I noticed that the last person to sign in was someone from KY-3 News in 1996. So more than four years after this crime occurred theories were still being looked into by people who cared about getting to the truth and solving this case. I knew from that then that what I was working on was probably not a novel idea.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Trooogrit View Post
    I was never under the impression that only those people were going to Branson. I could be mistaken, but it sounded more like a larger group.
    That is possible.

    Last spring, Bartt had a fight with his sister that alienated him
    from his mother, who mailed him his birth certificate.
    "Mom chose at that time not to have a relationship with me. Well that had happened quite a few times in the past. If we had times where we did not get along, we just did not see each other for a while. Then when one of us wanted to talk to the other one, we called and we talked over our problem. We always gave each other space we needed during the time that we felt either person stepped
    on the other person."
    Just "a shoving match" over a loud stereo caused his mother to mail him his birth certificate and be alienated from him? Mailing someone their birth certificate as a form of alienation sounds too corny and made up to me, especially since he was already 28 years old. Couple that with him throwing in all the other reasons in that interview about why they didn't get along sounds like a smokescreen and a subject changer to me and has nothing to do with the fork incident.

    She alienated him quite a few times in the past? Why? Was he that much of a problem? I wonder what the reasons were for all those other problems?

  3. #18
    You are free to believe whatever you choose. I want to deal only in facts, not rumors. Some of Suzie’s best friends are on record as saying that there was no stabbing or bruising at the time of what amounted to a shoving match between her and Bartt; and that Suzie did not sustain any injuries -Hurricane
    It's no more a rumor than Bartt's alibi is. There are no publicly-documented facts on his alibi so that would also stand to be a rumor.

    Putting all that aside, the Vegas incident is documented.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangledweb View Post
    Mailing someone their birth certificate as a form of alienation sounds too corny and made up to me, especially since he was already 28 years old.
    Perhaps when Sherrill took Suzie’s side of the argument Bartt threatened his mother with moving away and she mailed him his birth certificate as a way of her defusing the threat. Perhaps Bartt was already contemplating moving from Missouri that spring. Perhaps Sherrill had came across the birth certificate during the recent move into 1717 and decided at age 28 Bartt should be responsible for it and mailed it to him. There is absolutely no way to know what her mailing the birth certificate to him meant.

    Again, here is some of the evidence against the rumor of the stabbing:

    Some of Suzie’s best friends are on record as saying that there was no stabbing or bruising;

    That Suzie did not sustain any injuries.

    I have not uncovered any facts that would substantiate the rumor of the stabbing.

    From her research Kathee said that it didn’t happen either.

    Where is there any evidence proving that this is anything more than just a rumor?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangledweb View Post
    It's no more a rumor than Bartt's alibi is. There are no publicly-documented facts on his alibi so that would also stand to be a rumor.
    What Bartt gave LE as his alibi may not be true, but it is not rumor. Some of the alleged alibis that you have listed probably are rumor unless you can document their sources.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rumor

    1. A piece of unverified information of uncertain origin usually spread by word of mouth.
    2. Unverified information received from another; hearsay.

  6. #21
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    Bart has had his problems, there is no doubt. He definitely has a problem behaving recklessly and violently while drunk. The Springfield Three abduction does not appear to be the act of an "out of control" alcoholic. It appears to be a planned and well executed crime. Perhaps, when sober, Bart can be an effective criminal but nothing I have seen or read has lead me to that conclusion. Bart is a "suspect" because of his relationship to 2 of the victims. There is a SOP of investigating these sorts of suspects. (How thouroughly was this done to Bart and all the others?)

    Mule, you seem to have some information on Cox you are unable to share with us. That is unfortunate because it puts a damper on the conversation. What is the point of speculation if someone out there really knows the answer? I don't see Cox as a stronger suspect than any of the other Springfields lowlifes, but then I don't "know" what you "know".

    This just leads back to my argument that so much time has elapsed that there is no value in "holding back" information. The best chance the SPD has of solving it now is to release what information they have in a manner that will generate maximum interest and publicity and hope that it gets people talking.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    As a general rule of thumb alibis by parents are worthless. Of course he had opportunity since he had no alibi.

    The motive would be evident if you had the information I have.

    I regret to say that I'm not willing to endlessly nitpick the subject of Cox.
    Where does your “general rule of thumb” come from? Can you quote a criminology or law book or journal to support your claim or is this just like everything else, just your opinion although you don’t state it as so?

    If the motive is evident with the information that you have then why do you continuously complain that we don’t have a motive?

    If you are not willing to discuss the facts and circumstantial evidence concerning Cox then quit bringing it up how he is SPD’s number one suspect. You have already said that you have no circumstantial evidence to make your claim against him; you failed to name anyone within SPD who places Cox as their number one suspect; and you claim to have all these reliable sources giving you insight yet you complain endlessly that SPD won’t discuss this case.

    If asking for facts and evidence is nitpicking then we will never get anywhere on here.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    As a general rule of thumb alibis by parents are worthless. Of course he had opportunity since he had no alibi.

    The motive would be evident if you had the information I have.

    I regret to say that I'm not willing to endlessly nitpick the subject of Cox.
    Well considering no case has been made against him, the information is useless. There is no relationship between Cox and Garrison, that I know for a fact. THere is no relationship to rings and people at a particular address either, that is concocted information. That I know for a fact. So you must have something that is new and rellevent and you should follow it up.

  9. #24
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    Hurricane & Mule, you two have invested the shoe leather in the case and have opened it up for the rest of us who do not live in the area. If this thread leads to some "break" in the case; you two will deserve the credit. I hate to see animosity emerge since it seems to undermine any thread it infects. Mule, any time a poster indicates that he has information that he can not disclose, hackles will be raised. You have to expect it.

  10. #25
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    Not to change the subject or anything to interject this rather useless tidbit but I noticed a new comment on the True Crime Diary's write about this case that was posted on July 9th. Poster claims they wrote Cox and letter in prison and he wrote them back.

    http://www.truecrimediary.com/index....=comments#view
    As a Florida resident it enrages me that if only the Florida Supreme Court, which is stacked with bleeding heart liberals looking to overturn every death sentence, had not allowed Cox to be released all his subsequent victims would have been spared including and most likely Mrs. Levitt, Miss Streeter, and Miss McCall. I contacted Cox through the Texas Department of Corrections and urged him to commit one decent act in his life and at least disclose the location of the bodies, if he truly has that information, as to give the suffering families a small measure of grace and peace. He wrote back asking for money and photos of teenage girls in bikinis. What an inhumane disgusting animal!
    'The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated'
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaia227 View Post
    Not to change the subject or anything to interject this rather useless tidbit but I noticed a new comment on the True Crime Diary's write about this case that was posted on July 9th. Poster claims they wrote Cox and letter in prison and he wrote them back.

    http://www.truecrimediary.com/index....=comments#view
    As a Florida resident it enrages me that if only the Florida Supreme Court, which is stacked with bleeding heart liberals looking to overturn every death sentence, had not allowed Cox to be released all his subsequent victims would have been spared including and most likely Mrs. Levitt, Miss Streeter, and Miss McCall. I contacted Cox through the Texas Department of Corrections and urged him to commit one decent act in his life and at least disclose the location of the bodies, if he truly has that information, as to give the suffering families a small measure of grace and peace. He wrote back asking for money and photos of teenage girls in bikinis. What an inhumane disgusting animal!
    That's a very good summary of the case. From the write-up:

    ================================================== ============
    "If it’s true, the man who would one day become the prime suspect was, in the early days, following the case from across the street."...

    (Snip)

    "For the detective, it’s the interviews he conducted. At some point it struck him that not one of the people he interviewed could keep something quiet for fifteen minutes, let alone fifteen years. He’s inclined to think one man is to blame." ...


    (Snip)

    “Well, stranger things have happened,” someone once said to the detective in a half-hearted attempt to comfort him about the case.

    “No,” the detective said. “They haven’t.”
    ================================================== =============

    As best I recall the Zellers who brought this guy to the attention of the SPD were virtually certain that this was him as they had tracked his whereabouts after he was cut loose by the Florida Supremes. As soon as the case hit the news they blew the whistle on him.

    This human animal who hides behind the skirts of a justice system gone awry is too cowardly to be released into the general population of the maximum prison in Lovelady, Texas. Instead he chooses to sit in his cell looking at the four walls while he wishes upon a star that the Texas judges will be as supremely stupid as the Florida justices. He even refuses to deny he murdered the women. He claims that because the cops are hassling him he is in solitary. The reality is that he is a rank coward who preys on innocent and weaker female victims. Had the Florida Supremes not gone soft in the head he would be dead along with his best new bud, Ted Bundy who was fried in 1989. As I recall, Bundy's advice to him was to make sure the bodies were never found. Looks from here like Cox took it to heart.

    Sometimes it is necessary to apply the principle of Occam's Razor: This is one of those times.

    “Of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable, provided that it takes all circumstances into account.”
    Last edited by Missouri Mule; 07-22-2009 at 05:29 PM.
    “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaia227 View Post
    Not to change the subject or anything to interject this rather useless tidbit but I noticed a new comment on the True Crime Diary's write about this case that was posted on July 9th. Poster claims they wrote Cox and letter in prison and he wrote them back.

    http://www.truecrimediary.com/index....=comments#view
    As a Florida resident it enrages me that if only the Florida Supreme Court, which is stacked with bleeding heart liberals looking to overturn every death sentence, had not allowed Cox to be released all his subsequent victims would have been spared including and most likely Mrs. Levitt, Miss Streeter, and Miss McCall. I contacted Cox through the Texas Department of Corrections and urged him to commit one decent act in his life and at least disclose the location of the bodies, if he truly has that information, as to give the suffering families a small measure of grace and peace. He wrote back asking for money and photos of teenage girls in bikinis. What an inhumane disgusting animal!
    Thanks for that information. I have read that storyline several times and I remember when they were gathering information for that sight. I think it is a little bit of a collaberation of news articles and second hand accounts. It makes it sound as though Cox spent a lot of time with Bundy, but in his own words he said he only had one conversation with Bundy. What they discussed is anyones guess. I have never believed Cox committed the crime, I think he wants people to believe he did, I think he likes the attention. If he leads people to believe he knows something he wont be forgotten in prison. Obviously he is the subject of debate to this day. Now I would be open to Cox having something to do with this crime if I had more information about him. Someone like an ex girlfriend, one of his buddies, a family member that knew him personally. Someone that could give direction to his whereabouts, his habits or his vices. Something solid to make him a viable suspect. Right now a verdict of not guilty would be given to him in a trial.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooogrit View Post
    Thanks for that information. I have read that storyline several times and I remember when they were gathering information for that sight. I think it is a little bit of a collaberation of news articles and second hand accounts. It makes it sound as though Cox spent a lot of time with Bundy, but in his own words he said he only had one conversation with Bundy. What they discussed is anyones guess. I have never believed Cox committed the crime, I think he wants people to believe he did, I think he likes the attention. If he leads people to believe he knows something he wont be forgotten in prison. Obviously he is the subject of debate to this day. Now I would be open to Cox having something to do with this crime if I had more information about him. Someone like an ex girlfriend, one of his buddies, a family member that knew him personally. Someone that could give direction to his whereabouts, his habits or his vices. Something solid to make him a viable suspect. Right now a verdict of not guilty would be given to him in a trial.
    I totally agree. While he is a compelling suspect there is absolutely nothing except hearsay and speculation to back up any claims. LE couldn't even form a good circumstantial case against him if they wanted too. On the other hand LE finds him interesting enough that they have gone down to TX (or is he in FL?) and interviewed him more than once. They might have some info we don't know about.

    I tend to think he is just a sociopath who enjoys the attention and fancies himself in the same league (for lack of a better word) as people like Bundy except Cox does not even compare as far as intelligence and cunning and I find it unlikely that Ted Bundy would waste his time on someone like Cox unless he just enjoyed manipulating him

    MM = it was the Zellers who alerted police to the existence of Cox (per the Newleader anyway). They saw the case of the missing 3 on the news and knew that Cox was in Springfield at the time and they contacted LE.

    As far as suspects I think the Peacock brothers are an interesting duo to examine more closely. TangledWeb has mentioned them several times on this thread. They are either just two unlucky guys who coincidentally tend to be in the vicinity of unsolved murders and/or missing people occur or they have something to do with them.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaia227 View Post
    As far as suspects I think the Peacock brothers are an interesting duo to examine more closely. TangledWeb has mentioned them several times on this thread. They are either just two unlucky guys who coincidentally tend to be in the vicinity of unsolved murders and/or missing people occur or they have something to do with them.
    I totally agree that the Peacock brothers should be looked at more closely. I thought the same thing back when tangledweb posted that info about them. I'm going to go back on this thread this weekend and try to read the info he posted regarding them. They do always seem to turn up where there are unsolved murders. I can't remember offhand, were they suspects in the Angela Hammond disappearance? I've often wondered about her abduction, and if the same perp (s) was responsible for the disappearance of the 3MW.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaia227 View Post
    I totally agree. While he is a compelling suspect there is absolutely nothing except hearsay and speculation to back up any claims. LE couldn't even form a good circumstantial case against him if they wanted too. On the other hand LE finds him interesting enough that they have gone down to TX (or is he in FL?) and interviewed him more than once. They might have some info we don't know about.

    I tend to think he is just a sociopath who enjoys the attention and fancies himself in the same league (for lack of a better word) as people like Bundy except Cox does not even compare as far as intelligence and cunning and I find it unlikely that Ted Bundy would waste his time on someone like Cox unless he just enjoyed manipulating him

    MM = it was the Zellers who alerted police to the existence of Cox (per the Newleader anyway). They saw the case of the missing 3 on the news and knew that Cox was in Springfield at the time and they contacted LE.

    As far as suspects I think the Peacock brothers are an interesting duo to examine more closely. TangledWeb has mentioned them several times on this thread. They are either just two unlucky guys who coincidentally tend to be in the vicinity of unsolved murders and/or missing people occur or they have something to do with them.
    I essentially agree with your take. For the longest time I had considered him to be a blowhard wanting attention. But the more I delved into this case and based on information I received, there was a connection that was more than coincidental IF TRUE. That would provide the motive. There is someone who could speak directly to this subject but I don't see that happening. This is a very delicate matter to put it mildly. The one thing I cannot do is to find a single thing that could eliminate him. His alibi has no standing and his past history is deplorable and he won't even deny he did this crime which would allow him out of solitary as I am given to believe.

    I had occasion to discuss this case with a retired state trial judge and briefed him on the essence of this case and Cox's history to see if my thinking was right. He agreed with my take and understanding of the system.

    For someone who is trained in the art of martial combat it seems passing strange he would voluntarily lock himself away from the general population. The only logical reason I can think he would do this is because he actually believes he will be paroled in the future and he is willing to wait it out without fear for his life. He is in a Texas maximum facility, and Texas is not known for its lush facilities and treatment of inmates. His cell has no air conditioning. He has no access to outside communication and cell phones are absolutely forbidden. (An inmate recently received an additional 60 year sentence added to his existing sentence for the mere possession of a cellphone.)

    On the other hand he could, if he wanted to, work out better deal with the prosecutor's office in Missouri but it would have one catch. He would never get out of prison under any circumstances. In Texas he must believe he will. That's the only logic I can see to his unwillingness to be forthright.

    He is in fact in Eastham Unit, located in Lovelady, Texas; a "maximum" facility. That is 65 miles from where I live. I've often thought of attempting to visit him there to get a personal take on him. I may do that at some point in time if he and the prison authorities would consent. That I would have no control.
    Last edited by Missouri Mule; 07-22-2009 at 09:09 PM.
    “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”

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