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  1. #1
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    WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #7

    Please continue here.

  2. #2
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    Wow you all were really doing some good sleuthing lastnight. I actually went to bed early for the first time in weeks..lol.
    Great job everyone, its much appreciated...

  3. #3
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    snipping/quoting Not My Kids

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Normcar21
    Good considerations, imo, a number of programs on msnbc have been aired on the sex trade, not only nationally, but internationally, and a lot of money apparantly can be gleaned from this. Teens don't easily find work these days in a troubled economy, not only teens. The sex trade is clearly a problem, as well as it's connection to methamphetamine and such. I see a distinct potential for some "boss" sending older teens out to draw kids like Lindsey and "kaykay" the one who was attacked in Tumwater. I can understand that sort of motive, as sick as it is. It makes sense to me in these troubled times.

    I hate to say it, but the sale of human beings is big business. With no taxes.
    It's sickening and I know it happens. But in nothing but my personal opinion, I would be more apt to believe gang activity is responsible, if I had to choose between that and child prostitution.

    I know that meth and other drugs are a problem in WA, but has it spread to the small towns yet or is it mainly in the cities? There is a definite connection between the drug trade and the sex trade and if McCleary has a behind the scenes drug problem, I might believe the sex ring idea more easily.
    i agree 100% about human trafficking. also, i grew up in small, now live in big city. my experience has shown that it is a MYTH that small towns are safer, less drugs, less pervs, and the people have "small town values"!! a flat out MYTH i tell you. My mom's neighbor had a meth lab 8-9 years ago that blew up; there was a suspicious suicide which turned out to be a homicide 2 doors down. another neighbor chopped up 17 cats and stored them in cans. the cops were dealing drugs, there was prostitution at the only hotel in town. i could get any drug i wanted any time any where. underage girls were giving blow jobs to customers (including cops) at the only bar in town for coke. (dang, i'm feeling a bit flannery o'connor here..)

    also my experience was that 99% of my neighbors were "nice" friendly people who did some wonderful, charitable things, NO ONE can vouch for what goes on behind someone else's doors. (see above)

    so..... no one can be ruled out and, yes, very possible she was kidnapped for sex ring. however, statistics will back up that someone she knows was involved. i just hope someone's conscience makes them talk.
    Last edited by KateB; 04-08-2015 at 10:01 PM. Reason: repair url tag.

  4. #4
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    Brilliant work, impatientredhead, gathering all of the local stories/reports together that were prior to the Lindsey disappearance

    The black clothing, ski mask, gloves, etc. description brings me way back to the Jacob Wetterling case--who can ever forget him? Three boys riding their bikes home from the convenience store in a small town, and from the dark this monster emerges and drags Jacob away never to be found. Got me crying again.

    As far as a bulldog reporter...doesn't Seattle pi have some top notch criminal investigative journalists--the Green River killer case, etc.

  5. #5
    There is so much meth being used in my small town that our city has a DVD that is distributed for free called "Meth, Don't Go There". It was produced by another small Oregon town - by their high school students - after one of their kids died from meth. It is very compelling.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by concentric View Post
    Brilliant work, impatientredhead, gathering all of the local stories/reports together that were prior to the Lindsey disappearance

    The black clothing, ski mask, gloves, etc. description brings me way back to the Jacob Wetterling case--who can ever forget him? Three boys riding their bikes home from the convenience store in a small town, and from the dark this monster emerges and drags Jacob away never to be found. Got me crying again.

    As far as a bulldog reporter...doesn't Seattle pi have some top notch criminal investigative journalists--the Green River killer case, etc.
    I sent it to the crime editor of the Tacoma Tribune since it is actually in his backyard. We have an loud morning DJ that would probably bite if he thought he was breaking the story of serial kidnapper, or ring/gang trying to snatch young teens. I cannot think of an aggressive reporter up here, not in the paper, I am going to look at the news sites today and see if anyone jumps out at me.

  7. #7
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    Normcar -

    Your suggestion that young men could be getting recruited to do abductions for drugs and profit by an older man could fit the astrological profile.

  8. #8
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    I found 4 missing teens within 30 minutes of Olympia, which in my opinion seems to be where they are centered. McCleary is just over 30 minutes from there, there was the attack in Olympia, and all the Lakewood and Tacoma ones are about 30 minutes away. The four missing teen girls are all listed as endangered runaways, but you know that is what they would have said about Lindsay if she was older. There is not one witness to the abduction. All four were last seen in the ten weeks leading up to Lindsey's abduction.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by impatientredhead View Post
    I found 4 missing teens within 30 minutes of Olympia, which in my opinion seems to be where they are centered. McCleary is just over 30 minutes from there, there was the attack in Olympia, and all the Lakewood and Tacoma ones are about 30 minutes away. The four missing teen girls are all listed as endangered runaways, but you know that is what they would have said about Lindsay if she was older. There is not one witness to the abduction. All four were last seen in the ten weeks leading up to Lindsey's abduction.
    Hi Impatient, I don't think I am ready to consider Lindsey's abduction as part of a larger scale operation at this point considering LE believes she knew or had seen, met her abductor. There is no evidence she was snatched off the street, but rather got into a car willingly. As far as we know her slip on shoes have not been found nor has a crime scene for a point of the abduction.

    We just don't know yet as we have so little info. It just doesn't seem likely she ran from someone IMO. In that case I would think the dogs would have picked up her scent, as she could have fallen and bled a bit. xox

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by scandi View Post
    Hi Impatient, I don't think I am ready to consider Lindsey's abduction as part of a larger scale operation at this point considering LE believes she knew or had seen, met her abductor. There is no evidence she was snatched off the street, but rather got into a car willingly. As far as we know her slip on shoes have not been found nor has a crime scene for a point of the abduction.

    We just don't know yet as we have so little info. It just doesn't seem likely she ran from someone IMO. In that case I would think the dogs would have picked up her scent, as she could have fallen and bled a bit. xox
    The girl in Olympia was approached with a hey pretty lady. I would assume most of these guys would try a coaxing approach first. Just throwing out ideas. The four teens that are runaways at the moment are similar in looks, long brown hair.

    Statistically I agree, she knew whoever took her.


  11. #11
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    I've been wracking my brain, trying to remember who Lindsey reminded me of.

    I finally got it. A twelve year old 2007 Tacoma murder victim named Zina Linnick. She was kidnapped behind her house, from an alley and found dead a week later. She disappeared 4th of July last year.

    I just thought if that case had been tickling anyone else's brain, I thought I'd put it out there. I'm not proposing a link between them, Zina's killer is still safely in prison.

    Terapon Adhahn, that's his name. Suspect in Amber Hagerman's case. I am not firing on all 6 cylinders today.
    Last edited by not_my_kids; 07-17-2009 at 03:23 PM. Reason: clarity
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by impatientredhead View Post
    The girl in Olympia was approached with a hey pretty lady. I would assume most of these guys would try a coaxing approach first. Just throwing out ideas. The four teens that are runaways at the moment are similar in looks, long brown hair.

    Statistically I agree, she knew whoever took her.
    From the Polly Klass Foundation:
    *99.8% of the children who go missing do come home.

    *Nearly 90% of missing children have simply misunderstood directions or miscommunicated their plans, are lost, or have run away.
    * 9% are kidnapped by a family member in a custody dispute.
    * 3% are abducted by non-family members, usually during the commission of a crime such as robbery or sexual assault. The kidnapper is often someone the child knows.
    * Only about 100 children (a fraction of 1%) are kidnapped each year in the stereotypical stranger abductions you hear about in the news.
    * About have of these 100 children come home.


    <<<>>>

    Additionally, in 1997 the Attorney General of Washington State conducted a study focussing on missing child murders.

    The most important information pertains to children who were kidnapped by violent or predatory abductors (approximately 1 in every 10,000 reports of a missing child -- about 100 US children per year.) For these children, "in 74 percent of the cases the victims were dead within three hours after abduction."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastal View Post
    From the Polly Klass Foundation:
    *99.8% of the children who go missing do come home.

    *Nearly 90% of missing children have simply misunderstood directions or miscommunicated their plans, are lost, or have run away.
    * 9% are kidnapped by a family member in a custody dispute.
    * 3% are abducted by non-family members, usually during the commission of a crime such as robbery or sexual assault. The kidnapper is often someone the child knows.
    * Only about 100 children (a fraction of 1%) are kidnapped each year in the stereotypical stranger abductions you hear about in the news.
    * About have of these 100 children come home.


    <<<>>>

    Additionally, in 1997 the Attorney General of Washington State conducted a study focussing on missing child murders.

    The most important information pertains to children who were kidnapped by violent or predatory abductors (approximately 1 in every 10,000 reports of a missing child -- about 100 US children per year.) For these children, "in 74 percent of the cases the victims were dead within three hours after abduction."

    BBM- I am familiar with these stats and they definitely paint a picture. My only issue with them is saying that 100 kids are kidnapped each year..... when LE is so willing to write of a teenager as a runaway that willingly left my gut just says that number is low. Even the ones that are taken and forced to prostitute when they show up dead they don't make the abducted figures either, they are a runaway who turned into a known prostitute.

  14. #14
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    The U.S. Department of Justice reports:

    *

    797,500 children (younger than 18) were reported missing in a one-year period of time studied resulting in an average of 2,185 children being reported missing each day.

    *

    203,900 children were the victims of family abductions.

    *

    58,200 children were the victims of non-family abductions.

    *

    115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. (These crimes involve someone the child does not know or someone of slight acquaintance, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.)

    Adding to the conversation - statistics are deceiving!. 58,200 children are non-family abductions...are the 115 kidnapped children included in that number? And if you abduct a child for even 2 minutes, isn't that kidnapping? guess I don't understand these numbers!!!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    I've been wracking my brain, trying to remember who Lindsey reminded me of.

    I finally got it. A twelve year old 2007 Tacoma murder victim named Zina Linnick. She was kidnapped behind her house, from an alley and found dead a week later. She disappeared 4th of July last year.

    I just thought if that case had been tickling anyone else's brain, I thought I'd put it out there. I'm not proposing a link between them, Zina's killer is still safely in prison.

    Terapon Adhahn, that's his name. Suspect in Amber Hagerman's case. I am not firing on all 6 cylinders today.
    Yes, I looked at that case last night - looking at history of the area. There is a case that is still unsolved in Wa. that I am looking into - the girl still has not been identified and was burnt (takes my mind to the suspected arson fire recently somewhat near McCleary). I will dig up the info I found and see if it takes us in any direction or not.

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