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  1. #1
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    West Memphis 3

    Im ,after LP and I bantering about this in another thread,starting this to discuss the WM3 case

    I ,after alot of research,belive this is one of the biggest miscarriages of justice (and Im usually very Pro LE/Prosuction ) but am open to and interested in hearing opposing views on this case.

    This controversial case has become quite a "hot" topic as the 3 accused are down to their final appeals as well as alot of celebrities drawing attention to the case, a fictional WM3 movie due out this summer as well as a 3rd installment of the HBO produced "Paradise Lost" documentry series about the WM3.


    I belive that even if you doubt their innocence there is just too much evidence to ignore and this case MUST be reopened,reexamined and the "boys" freed.
    Last edited by VespaElf; 06-14-2004 at 04:34 PM. Reason: spelling!
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

  2. #2
    For anyone who hasn't seen Paradise Lost I or II, I recommend trying to find them. Ebay is a good place to look. They are documentaries about this case and contain the real players. One of the murdered boys, whose name I believe was Christopher Byers, has a very suspicious father, and at first I was pretty sure they were going to find he might have been involved in some way. However, it was determined that it would have been almost impossible for one person to have killed all three boys. There was also a suspicious man at a restaurant, I believe it was the "Bojangles" restaurant.

    Its been a LONG time since I discussed this case, so my memory is going to need to be seriously refreshed. However, I do remember reading Damien's psychiatric records and after watching everything I could about the case, reading about three dozen websites and at least one paperback book, I think the three are guilty.

  3. #3

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    Yes Steven Byers (Christopher Byers,one of the victims' Step-Father) is one VERY strange man and one of the biggest reasons that got me off the fence and onto the "Theyre innocent" side.

    The bite marks on Christophers body do not match Jessie,Damian or Jason (the WM3).
    After this information was released Steven Byers had all of his teeth removed(and although this was confirmed by a Dentist Mr.Byers' continues to tell different accounts of why he has no teeth).
    Although this by far not the only reason Steven Myers is strange and not the only incident in/around this case that got me looking at it differently .



    Paradise Lost 1 & 2 are /should be at most Blockbusters as well.
    I also reconmend reading the pro-inocence book "Devil's Knot" as well as the Pro-guilty "Blood of Innocents"



    Although it contains a wealth of information the WM3.org site is quite biased and Im not aware of any "guilty" Wm3 sites.............if anyone knows of any-let me know!
    Id like it ,if you could LP ,to refresh yourself on the case as Im interested in discussing this with you.{EDIT: Just caught the link LP,thanks!}



    LP-where did you read Damien's psych. records? Id be quite interested in that!!
    Last edited by VespaElf; 06-14-2004 at 04:59 PM. Reason: UPDATE
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

  5. #5
    Here's what I found at the link about the "bite mark."

    Similarly, the bite mark issue raised in one of the films was dealt with badly, both in the film and in this book. If there truly was an issue in which a bite mark could have exonerated the defendants, an exhumation could have been ordered to bring up the body and provide both sides with means for careful examination. As it stands, it appears to have been merely a side issue raised by a man with no training in forensic pathology and it was quickly dispensed with in the courtroom.



    As for the medical records - damn good question. We had a heavy duty discussion going on in another forum and I can't find it. Someone actually copied them and posted them after a court order forced them to turn them over. I'll keep looking though!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LP Moderator
    Here's what I found at the link about the "bite mark."

    Similarly, the bite mark issue raised in one of the films was dealt with badly, both in the film and in this book. If there truly was an issue in which a bite mark could have exonerated the defendants, an exhumation could have been ordered to bring up the body and provide both sides with means for careful examination. As it stands, it appears to have been merely a side issue raised by a man with no training in forensic pathology and it was quickly dispensed with in the courtroom.



    As for the medical records - damn good question. We had a heavy duty discussion going on in another forum and I can't find it. Someone actually copied them and posted them after a court order forced them to turn them over. I'll keep looking though!


    As far as I know I have been told the method used r/e the bite marks is one commonly used in court proceedings and although not ideal as yes the actual bite marks were not tested(just an impression) it is still being upheld by the WM3 defense (to my knowledge).


    Please if you do come across the records-link them! Id love to take a peek!


    Also the WM3 site has a great detailing of the all evidence for/against.
    I know you're firmly "against" but as for study in regards to the case its informative.
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by messiecake
    As far as I know I have been told the method used r/e the bite marks is one commonly used in court proceedings and although not ideal as yes the actual bite marks were not tested(just an impression) it is still being upheld by the WM3 defense (to my knowledge).


    Please if you do come across the records-link them! Id love to take a peek!


    Also the WM3 site has a great detailing of the all evidence for/against.
    I know you're firmly "against" but as for study in regards to the case its informative.

    Well I believe something may have come to light that made this point either moot or close to it. If I have any free time, I'll search again for those records. It was a long while ago and I'm pretty busy these days with Peterson!!

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    Wm3

    Here is the link for the WM3 online petition if anyone is interested:


    http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe...gn.cgi?WM32002
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

  9. #9
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    Question

    i am not familiar with this case, but now really want to read this book...it sounds most intriguing.

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    Ok I'm a 3rd way through my book (Devils Knot) and I cannot say with 100% that these kids are innocent. What I do think is there is credible evidence against Byers definitely... but I wouldn't pass up Damien as a DEFINITE suspect as well. I think the other two boys are innocent... This author has not done them justice IMO at all. She is too strong with swaying her readers. Yet when she starts writing, she promised a unbiased version. Disappointed in that. She "skims" over very lightly on prosecutors evidence and STRONGLY DETAILS the potential of innocence. One cannot deny that there IS evidence pointing to Damien to a small degree and the things he said to the victims families during the trial, OMG. Also, while I have not come across it in the book, I have heard that there was a bloody sneaker from Jason or Damien that the prosecutors had in their possession and when they released it to the defense, it was "lost". Can anyone clarify if that is evidence... as one of the victims mother is saying that.

    I am not convinced yet.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueclouds
    Ok I'm a 3rd way through my book (Devils Knot) and I cannot say with 100% that these kids are innocent. What I do think is there is credible evidence against Byers definitely... but I wouldn't pass up Damien as a DEFINITE suspect as well. I think the other two boys are innocent... This author has not done them justice IMO at all. She is too strong with swaying her readers. Yet when she starts writing, she promised a unbiased version. Disappointed in that. She "skims" over very lightly on prosecutors evidence and STRONGLY DETAILS the potential of innocence. One cannot deny that there IS evidence pointing to Damien to a small degree and the things he said to the victims families during the trial, OMG. Also, while I have not come across it in the book, I have heard that there was a bloody sneaker from Jason or Damien that the prosecutors had in their possession and when they released it to the defense, it was "lost". Can anyone clarify if that is evidence... as one of the victims mother is saying that.

    I am not convinced yet.

    B.C,
    Although Im a WM3 supporter I agree that Devil's Knot isnt the most unbiased book in the world(the author clearly belives theyre innocent and I feel she represents everything in that light).I liked the book (II also reconmend reading the "theyre guilty"book "Blood of Innocents" for the flipside) but wish there were a book that laid out the pros/cons of both sides and let the reader make up their mind.
    To my knowledge the "lost sneaker" was a further distortion from the Pros(to talk about the evidence both sides claim the other side lost,didnt test,tested but lost results etc would take up a thread of its own and with everything that wasnt lost and is still available-being retested or in some cases tested for the first time,its moot until the new results are in).

    The WM3.org site has a link to a WM3 board that has some great threads about evidence questions.The board is an interesting place because it has pro-innocents,pro-guilties,fence sitters ,people who were pro-innocent and are now pro-guilties etc so you get a much bigger view on the case then one (myself included)would imagine.Check it out if you have any questions (theres also links on WM3.org to evidence listings etc)
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

  12. #12
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    Thumbs up

    thanks messie, I will check it out further. I haven't been on the boards at the wm3 site. I appreciate places that accept everyone including "fence sitters... etc".

    Is there anyother book you recommend or is available regarding this? Where could I find the two documentaries as well? TY
    Carey

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueclouds
    thanks messie, I will check it out further. I haven't been on the boards at the wm3 site. I appreciate places that accept everyone including "fence sitters... etc".

    Is there anyother book you recommend or is available regarding this? Where could I find the two documentaries as well? TY
    Carey
    Carey,

    The first doc. is only on VHS and out of print.I know however that its available for rent at most Blockbusters and used copies are on sale at eBay,Amazon etc(it is going to be re-released on dvd soon though!)
    Doc. #II is on DVD and avail. at Amazon (used copies are as low as $13)

    The other book avail. is "Blood of Innocents" which is a "typical" true crime book (when you see it you'll know what I mean! Black,white & red cover,small paperback,"rush job" quailty)its pro-"guilty" but I still recon. reading it .
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

  14. #14
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    The below link is to a book written by the D.A's self proclaimed "cult expert".
    Not only does he belive there were satanists running loose in West Memphis but also that the C.I.A is involved in ritual child abuse and brainwashing people into becoming spies!


    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books







    I think I saw a similar story in the Weekly World News once!!!!!!!!!!


    AND this man was a "star witness" for the Pro's???????
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

  15. #15
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    Devil's Knot was one of the books that I read about this case. It convinced me that the West Memphis Police really didn't investigate Mark Byers. And the thing that really convinced me further of his involvement was his wife's death. Things just didn't add up there either. When I have the time, I am going to try to reread the book, I have it around here somewhere.

    Great thread Messiecake, thanks for starting it!
    My posts are to stay at WS, not to be moved to other forums for their members to judge. I know who is moving posts and this is fair warning. If I want my posts moved to other places, I will do it myself.

    The above post is JMO, MOO, MHO, and all other disclaimers. Please leave it here at WS! TIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by messiecake
    The below link is to a book written by the D.A's self proclaimed "cult expert".
    Not only does he belive there were satanists running loose in West Memphis but also that the C.I.A is involved in ritual child abuse and brainwashing people into becoming spies!


    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books







    I think I saw a similar story in the Weekly World News once!!!!!!!!!!


    AND this man was a "star witness" for the Pro's???????
    Yep, that's the guy!
    He is definitely a nut. Sounds like a paranoid schizo or something.
    Thanks for the link.

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    Hi, had to bump this case up having only recently found out about it. I have just ordered the 'Innocents' book from Ebay and the documentary and intend to 'get down off the fence' and form my opinion when I have looked through them both.

    The thing I can't understand is how could one person keep all three boys there against their will? Surely no matter what they said, once they had seen what had been done to one of them the others or at least one of them would have been able to scarper.

    At the moment, although I don't have the facts to support me until my Ebay goodies arrive my instinct is swaying me towards the fact that the three are indeed guilty. I'm sorry but Damien was a complete weirdo. And Jessie came up with alot of stuff also which is rather strange to admit to. I admit the Byers man does sound very strange especially bearing in mind the removal of teeth incident. I know he was a big fan of corporal punishment. Maybe the bite marks were indeed made by him ( I know biting is not classed as corporal punishment but maybe it was done as some sort of weird punishment) but if they were that doesnt make him the killer just a cruel (step) father.

    As mentioned, I only just found out about this heartbreaking case and would be interested to hear all your views about suspects, convictions etc! Thanks.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by missacorah
    Hi, had to bump this case up having only recently found out about it. I have just ordered the 'Innocents' book from Ebay and the documentary and intend to 'get down off the fence' and form my opinion when I have looked through them both.

    The thing I can't understand is how could one person keep all three boys there against their will? Surely no matter what they said, once they had seen what had been done to one of them the others or at least one of them would have been able to scarper.

    At the moment, although I don't have the facts to support me until my Ebay goodies arrive my instinct is swaying me towards the fact that the three are indeed guilty. I'm sorry but Damien was a complete weirdo. And Jessie came up with alot of stuff also which is rather strange to admit to. I admit the Byers man does sound very strange especially bearing in mind the removal of teeth incident. I know he was a big fan of corporal punishment. Maybe the bite marks were indeed made by him ( I know biting is not classed as corporal punishment but maybe it was done as some sort of weird punishment) but if they were that doesnt make him the killer just a cruel (step) father.

    As mentioned, I only just found out about this heartbreaking case and would be interested to hear all your views about suspects, convictions etc! Thanks.

    Its been a while since I studied the case, but I'll be happy to try and remember what I can. I've got the book and I think one of the documentaries, so I may need to refresh my memory, but I believe they're guilty too. A while ago, I found Damien's psychological records on the internet and they were pretty interesting. The dude's a wack job for sure. I have nothing against heavy metal music (rather like it actually) and nothing against "black" clothing and the like. I don't think it helped their cause at all, but I don't think it got them convicted either.

    Welcome!!

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    Thanks - would be interested to hear what you remember. This case has really stuck in my head - one of the little boys looks very similar to my own son. It's a really sickening case.

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    I have seen the HBO documentaries and read a lot about the case online a couple years ago. I will also get a copy of the book as I would like to know more.
    I am conflicted on this case. I do hope Damien is removed from death row.
    Very interesting that HBO paid that man to act so crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)
    Its been a while since I studied the case, but I'll be happy to try and remember what I can. I've got the book and I think one of the documentaries, so I may need to refresh my memory, but I believe they're guilty too. A while ago, I found Damien's psychological records on the internet and they were pretty interesting. The dude's a wack job for sure. I have nothing against heavy metal music (rather like it actually) and nothing against "black" clothing and the like. I don't think it helped their cause at all, but I don't think it got them convicted either.

    Welcome!!
    Will this help? http://www.wm3.org/live/evidence/index.php

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
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    I've been following this story from the beginning and ofcourse I listened to the media reports and thought they were guilty at first, like everyone else. But then I saw HBO's "Paradise Lost" and started to question alot of things in the case. And by the time "Paradise Lost 2" came out I was pretty much convinced that these boys were innocent. I've read everything I can get my hands on...off the internet and on. I've read "Devil's knot", which is a very informative read about the case. I just recently read "Almost Home" written by Damien Echols himself. It's not much about the case but more about Damien, the boy...and now the man...the man he has become from behind bars. It is a wonderful read... it will make you think...make you cry...and believe it or not at times even laugh. Anyone who is really interested in this miscarriage of justice should read this book... both books... and watch the movies as well. And don't forget June 3rd marks the 13th anniversary that the WM3 were arrested for the murders... so light a candle, pray, or wear your "free the WM3" gear if you have any....and lets not forget the three little boys who were murdered in this case.. May 6th was 13 years since they were taken from this world... they were beautiful children and my heart goes out to their families... and the hope that one day there will be "true" justice in this case of 6 victims!

  23. #23
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    I have just found this thread...

    I have been thinking about the guilt of the West Memhis 3 since I chanced upon the HBO documentaries a few months ago...
    Did any of the 3 have alibi's or did they alibi each other?
    Mark Byers is a fruitcake who was in my opinion abusing his step son .He admits to beating the little guy with a belt..
    I wonder if his wife could have perpetrated this crime with him? Not a nice thought but....
    I have lots of questions about this case..
    I want to see a 'new' trial ..

  24. #24
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    If no one knows, threre is a website for the West Memphis 3. it's: www.wm3.org .

    Currently, they are lookin into DNA testing results that could spell a new trial.

    I remember when I first saw the documentary on HBO when I was a teen. I saw Damien Echols with the solid black look, the long black hair and the strange personality and pretty much said in my mind that he must have done it. As I got older, I replayed the documentary (which you can find on netflix) and found myself wondering why I thought he was guilty. I think these three are innocent and a town built on religious faith convicted them much like people during the salem witch trials.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gman20001969 View Post
    If no one knows, threre is a website for the West Memphis 3. it's: www.wm3.org .

    Currently, they are lookin into DNA testing results that could spell a new trial.

    I remember when I first saw the documentary on HBO when I was a teen. I saw Damien Echols with the solid black look, the long black hair and the strange personality and pretty much said in my mind that he must have done it. As I got older, I replayed the documentary (which you can find on netflix) and found myself wondering why I thought he was guilty. I think these three are innocent and a town built on religious faith convicted them much like people during the salem witch trials.
    I thought this too until I read a bunch of the court documents from a link that someone posted. I now lean towards thinking they really are guilty.

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