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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom23gr8kids View Post
    All of that is pretty far out there speculation. I have heard nothing of the power or phone lines being cut.
    Maybe that was their original intention. If you remember the statement given by the guy who was working on Pam Wiggins' rental house (I think those details are right) he talked about Gonzalez Jr. driving a brand new bucket truck, like the trucks the power company uses to work on power lines. The guy understandably thought it was really odd that anybody would drive a new bucket truck so he made a comment about the truck to Gonzalez Jr, who got real defensive about it and gave him a jerk-y comment in response.

    So where did Gonzalez get the bucket truck and why did he have it? Obviously he must have gotten it from a used car dealer and I bet he had it because they were thinking about cutting somebody's power or phone.

    Why didn't they use it? The most obvious reasons are because you could get killed messing around with power lines or because they had to give it back to the car dealer (maybe the car dealer had it on loan from somebody else or something) before the home invasion occured.

  2. #92
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    Gene posted this on the media thread and I think it should also be put here.

    What I saw…

    The videos from the surveillance cameras from the Billings’ residence are haunting. The 16 cameras captured both the inside and outside of the home while the seven intruders drove onto the property and five masked men stormed into the house.
    The intruders were deliberate and well organized. There was no hesitation or any sense that the men didn’t know what they were doing.
    Gonzalez shot him from the hallway by the kitchen, within in seconds of coming in view of the camera. One intruder with a rifle stayed in the hallway. Gonzalez and another stood over Billings. Gonzalez pressed his pistol to back of Billing’s head. The fifth intruder guarded Melanie Billings.
    The videos of the children ripped my heart. No child should ever have to experience such horror. The home and their bedrooms should be sanctuaries. The video from the living room that showed Bud Billings being shot and the couple being terrorized made me angry. This couple did not have to be shot for the intruders to complete the robbery.

    Someone wanted these people dead.
    http://ricksblog.biz/?p=7299&cpage=1#comment-258904

  3. #93
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    This caught my attention in Ricks description of the crime scene photos:

    http://ricksblog.biz/?p=7312

    There was a TV in the bedroom that was inset in the wall that displayed views from the surveillance system so the intruders would have known the cameras were working when they took Bud and Melanie into the master bedroom.



    * Were they so pumped up that they did not notice?

    OR and this is a big OR,

    * Could it be that they wanted the video system to work?
    * Could it be that whoever set this up was watching?

  4. #94
    Differences in reports of the tapes:

    WearTV states:
    Byrd Billings emerges from the kitchen, puts his hands up…….
    Byrd is taken out of camera range, then reappears and motions for Melanie, who appears to be holding the boy.
    She goes with Bud, and they never return.

    Fox News states:…a camera in the couple's living room shows Melanie Billings enter from the kitchen following a dog and what appears to be a child.
    Byrd Billings, wearing only boxer shorts, comes in next with his arms in the air in surrender as two men, dressed in black with their faces covered, point long guns at him. A third man dressed in street clothes then points a handgun at his head.
    Melanie Billings appears to grab the child protectively. Byrd Billings falls to the floor, then appears to get up and struggle with the intruders. Melanie Billings goes to Byrd's side.

    Rick Outzen states:
    Bud and Melanie Billings both approached the front door when three men kicked it in. Both had their hands up in the air…
    At one point, Melanie comes back into the living room and hugs Jake. Bud also appears and both are taken back to the bedroom. We don’t see them again.

    WKRG states:
    Byrd Billings walks out of the kitchen, wearing jean shorts and no shirt.
    The next thing seen is Byrd's hands go up as the suspects enter. Melanie Billings is seen gripping the couch, trying to hide behind it.
    Byrd is shoved down, and guns are pointed at his head. It appears he is shot in the leg. The suspects then lead him into the bedroom area, and Melanie grabs the child hiding behind the couch.

  5. #95
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    Wow...what a difference in perspective!!!

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyof4 View Post
    Wow...what a difference in perspective!!!
    All the more reason the public should be allowed to have access directly to the info, not have to traipse up to some location in person.

    Family lawyer is now filing suit to prevent even sketches made from memory of the material on the tapes.

    Ridiculous -- how can you prevent a person from creating a drawing of their own, from a mental image? Maybe the artist can claim it is 'similar' to the event, but not depicting the event, etc.

    Once you start down the road of restraint, this is where you end -- ridiculous.

    Same with 911 tapes -- with all the the redaction, bleeps and chopping, how can anyone make heads or tails out of them? All investigative value to the public has been removed, purposely or not.

    "The truth shall set you free"

  7. #97
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    A third man dressed in street clothes...from Fox News. Intriguing observation, imho.

  8. #98
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    I am most intrigued by, and find most credible, FOX News' description. It is the most detailed and indicates the rep that viewed it was really paying attention.

    I go back and forth about wanting to view the tape. Part of me wants to, but I'm not sure how crucial it is in terms of sleuthing. Suspects are in custody. Sounds like they were pretty well camoflauged. I'm afraid it'd just make me terribly sad and I wouldn't come away with anything new from it. Might feel voyeuristic.

    Usually I'm all "Roll the tape!" but is there anything to be gained from it?

  9. #99
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    Fox intrigues me because it says that MB comes from the kitchen following a dog. The dog disappearance and reappearance has been a big mystery to me.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by MomofBoys View Post
    I am most intrigued by, and find most credible, FOX News' description. It is the most detailed and indicates the rep that viewed it was really paying attention.

    I go back and forth about wanting to view the tape. Part of me wants to, but I'm not sure how crucial it is in terms of sleuthing. Suspects are in custody. Sounds like they were pretty well camoflauged. I'm afraid it'd just make me terribly sad and I wouldn't come away with anything new from it. Might feel voyeuristic.

    Usually I'm all "Roll the tape!" but is there anything to be gained from it?
    It is a good question and I am afraid you will not know until you see it. I think you can get a very different impression from seeing the tape that you may not get listening to the descriptions. For example, no one has said if they could determine the race of the Ninjas from the tape? Can you see all five Ninjas that entered the home? Other than the killers, what were they doing?

    We have heard "reporters" descriptions of events....but there have been no "AHA's". I am thinking that if a few sleuths dropped by, there could be a few AHA's coming out of it.

    If I were local, I would definately be there.......


  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by MomofBoys View Post

    Usually I'm all "Roll the tape!" but is there anything to be gained from it?
    Well said.

    What could possibly be gained from allowing these tapes to be broadcast all over the internet?

    I bet these people that think for some reason they have a right to see the last minutes of these peoples lives and the pictures of their dead bodies would be the first ones jumping up and down screaming "Hell No!" if these were tapes and photos of members of their family.

  12. #102
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    What is "lost" by making the tapes available? If YOU don't want to view them, simply don't. I think the tapes show some important realities in this case. One thing that is obvious, the children were "off limits" considering the child was left to roam the living area while the executions took place. Second, they show that the murders were NOT the result of a violent struggle, they were obviously planned. Third, it shows the perps had no interest in stealing other valuables, just the contents of the small safe. Fourth, it shows the value of a surveillance system in catching the perps and verifying their testimony under questioning.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnderDog View Post
    What is "lost" by making the tapes available? .
    The tapes are available. They’re just not available to be splashed all over you-tube or the media outlets

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderDog View Post
    If YOU don't want to view them, simply don't. .
    If you really want to see them, haul yourself down to the courthouse and watch. All you have to do is suit up and show up.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderDog View Post
    I think the tapes show some important realities in this case. One thing that is obvious, the children were "off limits" considering the child was left to roam the living area while the executions took place. Second, they show that the murders were NOT the result of a violent struggle, they were obviously planned. .
    Really? When Bud resisted, he was beaten and shot multiple times. Sounds kinda violent to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderDog View Post
    Third, it shows the perps had no interest in stealing other valuables, just the contents of the small safe.
    Could it be they ran after they figured out Bud wasn’t going to give them the combination to the big safe or anything else they wanted, even after being shot twice in the legs before being executed? Not to mention after they fired 16 rounds they figured maybe it was time to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderDog View Post
    Fourth, it shows the value of a surveillance system in catching the perps and verifying their testimony under questioning.
    The biggest value was in that it gave LE the opportunity to plaster the red van all over the news which basically led to putting 8 people behind bars.

    Do you really think the public is going to see something extra on those tapes that trained LE officers have been studying for weeks?

    The goal here is to catch the people that did this. Mission Accomplished.

    There is absolutely no way splashing the photos and tapes all over the media is going to help the prosecution of this case. If there were, the judge would have allowed it. The ONLY thing allowing these tapes will accomplish, would be to needlessly allow everybody in the country easy access in viewing the last moments of a man and his wife before they were brutally murdered. Not to mention the actions of their terrified children.

    Who in their right mind would feel the need to watch that?

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