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  1. #1
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    Gerald R. McMenamin on Donald Foster pg 84-88

    link
    http://books.google.com/books?id=oFM...esult&resnum=7

    you can find Forensic linguistics By Gerald R. McMenamin, Dongdoo Choi

    on google books,

    page 85-88

    since it's pdf I can't cut and paste but quotes include

    "[Foster] presenting no clear methodology" p87

    "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing....Donald Foster's academic preparation is literature " p85

    he also critiques psycho-linguistics p84


    "this kind of psycholinguistics is not forensic linguistics"

    Dave, you're coming with me. I'll not leave you behind. I got to save you.

    "you already have, voynich" "you were right about me. tell your sister, you were right"

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    link
    http://books.google.com/books?id=oFM...esult&resnum=7

    you can find Forensic linguistics By Gerald R. McMenamin, Dongdoo Choi

    on google books,

    page 85-88

    since it's pdf I can't cut and paste but quotes include

    "[Foster] presenting no clear methodology" p87

    "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing....Donald Foster's academic preparation is literature " p85

    he also critiques psycho-linguistics p84


    "this kind of psycholinguistics is not forensic linguistics"

    Dave, you're coming with me. I'll not leave you behind. I got to save you.

    "you already have, voynich" "you were right about me. tell your sister, you were right"
    Voynich, you're consistent, I'll give you that. You're not like a lot of the people who claim that ALL linguistic analysis is jabberwocky, then turn right around and use the words of the jabberwockey-mongers themselves to attack another one.

    That said, I'll remind you yet again that one had access to the actual case materials and the other did NOT.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Voynich, you're consistent, I'll give you that. You're not like a lot of the people who claim that ALL linguistic analysis is jabberwocky, then turn right around and use the words of the jabberwockey-mongers themselves to attack another one.

    That said, I'll remind you yet again that one had access to the actual case materials and the other did NOT.
    Well, I was once a Jedi Knight, same as your father.

    You can make of McM.. what you like but he outlines his methodology as involving statistical analysis (which can be independently done) and he feels his sample size of PR's known writing is large enough, and the RN long enough, to draw the conclusion, in the language of statistics p-value >0.001

    to rule her out as author.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    Well, I was once a Jedi Knight, same as your father.
    Fortunately, my father saw the true power.

    You can make of McM.. what you like but he outlines his methodology as involving statistical analysis (which can be independently done) and he feels his sample size of PR's known writing is large enough, and the RN long enough, to draw the conclusion, in the language of statistics p-value >0.001

    to rule her out as author.
    I get all of that (I think). But what I'm saying is that there is a lot more that is denied to him as an outsider.

    A lot of myths repeated in those pages, BTW.
    Last edited by SuperDave; 07-26-2009 at 03:19 PM.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  5. #5
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    The biggest issue with Foster is that:

    a) he himself said that being wrong just once would make any future finding suspect and he was then found to be apparently wrong about a couple of his high-profile findings:

    b) he is always up against the insurmountable problem that while he may have found the person whose writing best matches the sample, he may not have come across the person whose writing is even closer to the sample. This was exactly what happened with the elegy that he attributed to Shakespeare. It *was* close to Shakespeare but it was even closer to John Ford whom he never studied. Henceforth, his critics will always be able to point out that someone else's writings etc may be closer to the RN and that he just hasn't come across them yet.

    IOW, there are enough academics in that field who will argue that every one of his findings is suspect that his otherwise incredibly useful work in the Ramsey case is wasted. A very sad waste IMHO.
    Last edited by Sophie; 07-26-2009 at 04:48 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    IOW, there are enough academics in that field who will argue that every one of his findings is suspect that his otherwise incredibly useful work in the Ramsey case is wasted. A very sad waste IMHO.
    Well said. It might not have been so bad if the DA had actually known how to use him or had stood by him. But he came back with the one answer the DA's office did not want. That sealed his fate, provided they ever intended to us him at all.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  7. #7
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    If his conclusion is valid, but RDI is still true, I wonder if the reason is

    1- Burke wrote it,
    2- PR + JR wrote it together, confounding statistical analysis
    3- another R wrote it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    If his conclusion is valid, but RDI is still true, I wonder if the reason is

    1- Burke wrote it,
    2- PR + JR wrote it together, confounding statistical analysis
    3- another R wrote it.
    And it's a very BIG "if." But regardless, I've often wondered about #2.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    If his conclusion is valid, but RDI is still true, I wonder if the reason is

    1- Burke wrote it,
    2- PR + JR wrote it together, confounding statistical analysis
    3- another R wrote it.

    Re nr.1

    I don't think so but it would say a lot re his relationship with his daddy "Don't grow a brain John" ?
    The rice is already cooked...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Well said. It might not have been so bad if the DA had actually known how to use him or had stood by him. But he came back with the one answer the DA's office did not want. That sealed his fate, provided they ever intended to us him at all.
    The worst of it is, people like Foster are incredibly valuable to LE: you'd have expected Hunter et al to have done all they could to preserve his credibility for future investigations. People with his ability aren't ten a penny..


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    Re nr.1

    I don't think so but it would say a lot re his relationship with his daddy "Don't grow a brain John" ?
    LOL, Madeleine

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    The worst of it is, people like Foster are incredibly valuable to LE: you'd have expected Hunter et al to have done all they could to preserve his credibility for future investigations. People with his ability aren't ten a penny..
    Instead, he did the exact opposite.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  13. #13
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    I definitely wonder about #2,considering Patsy revealed in DOI how she and JR came up w the liturgy of the day (the one that contained the words 'and hence').She said that she and John each wrote a version,then merged the two into one final version.perhaps the reason so many pages were missing from her writing tablet?
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    The worst of it is, people like Foster are incredibly valuable to LE: you'd have expected Hunter et al to have done all they could to preserve his credibility for future investigations. People with his ability aren't ten a penny..
    no love for Gerald R. McMenamin?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    I definitely wonder about #2,considering Patsy revealed in DOI how she and JR came up w the liturgy of the day (the one that contained the words 'and hence').She said that she and John each wrote a version,then merged the two into one final version.perhaps the reason so many pages were missing from her writing tablet?
    I'd like to see samples of Burke's writing, both written and typed.

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