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  1. #1
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    What makes the JBR case fascinating to you?

    I'm curious as to what keeps us coming back to the JBR case. For me, this case is classic Sherlock Holmes. I always feel we are one step away from putting all the facts together and solving this crime.

    Even with the staged crime scene, the fact that the crime scene was unsecured in the initial stages, and the dissention between the police and the district attorneys' office, I feel that there is some loose end that will logically lead to the killer.

  2. #2
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    Interesting question!

    The players involved.
    The frustration that it might never be solved.
    The theories,both RDI and IDI.
    Wanting to finally know what really happened.
    Everything about it is unique I guess.
    The rice is already cooked...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    Interesting question!

    The players involved.
    The frustration that it might never be solved.
    The theories,both RDI and IDI.
    Wanting to finally know what really happened.
    Everything about it is unique I guess.
    Here are some things that intrigue me:

    The players are interesting. In the immediate family there's the Southern beauty pageant, cancer-surviving Mama raising another beauty pageant winner. JonBenet was gorgeous and doll-like. Daddy seemed quiet and distant. Brother Burke seemed to be a non-entity.

    There was also a lot of released footage of JonBenet at the pageants. The whole "pageant world" is strange to me. The children with dyed hair, spray tans, fake flipper teeth, full makeup, and Las Vegas showgirl outfits seems wrong to me on many levels.

    The murder near Christmas-time and in her own home is novel. At at time when most are cushioned safely in the bosom of their family something horrible was being done to JonBenet.

    The "War and Peace" staged ransom note which seemed to be written by the hand of her own mother. I know this is a hotly contested subject but my first reaction upon studying the note was that Patsy wrote it.

    The various RDI and IDI theories and how none of the theories I've read (so far) fit perfectly for all the published facts of the crime.

  4. #4
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    A brilliant question!


    There's just so much about this case that makes it intrinsically special:

    The Christmas factor; the wealth of the Ramseys; the pageants; the concatenation of circumstances that made it so hard to prosecute this case; Boulder; the Internet subcultures; the fact that so many of the principals were extraordinary people, whether good or 'bad' (eg. A book could be written about Trip de Muth alone, let alone characters like Alex Hunter); Steve Thomas; the (extra)ordinary people like Tricia, SuperDave, DeeDee, Madeleine, ACandyRose, RiverRat and so many more of you who have worked so hard for so long to keep this case alive; the fact that it was pretty much the first case which could be followed so fully so easily via the Internet by people anywhere.

    So many things...


    But mostly, JonBenet herself. I often think of JBR had she lived. She could have been anything and it's humanity's loss that we'll never find out what that was...
    Last edited by Sophie; 07-27-2009 at 03:08 PM.

  5. #5
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    I've often asked myself this question, and it keeps coming back to the same answer:

    the idea that a little girl could be killed in her own home on Christmas. Doesn't matter by whom.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theonly1 View Post
    I'm curious as to what keeps us coming back to the JBR case. For me, this case is classic Sherlock Holmes. I always feel we are one step away from putting all the facts together and solving this crime.

    Even with the staged crime scene, the fact that the crime scene was unsecured in the initial stages, and the dissention between the police and the district attorneys' office, I feel that there is some loose end that will logically lead to the killer.
    me too.imo it's someone or someones that is going to talk someday.and perhaps that's why JR appears to keep trying to keep his head above the water on this case.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  7. #7
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    Everything about it is unique - M

    Ya, for sure, Madeleine, unique and beyond reason.
    All the players are intruiging and the nature of the crimes perpetrated aginst JBR are horrific, it reads worse than fiction.

    The false accusations, how cybersleuths insinuated themselves into the case, and that the case remains unsloved ... it's all of interest.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theonly1 View Post
    Here are some things that intrigue me:

    The players are interesting. In the immediate family there's the Southern beauty pageant, cancer-surviving Mama raising another beauty pageant winner. JonBenet was gorgeous and doll-like. Daddy seemed quiet and distant. Brother Burke seemed to be a non-entity.

    There was also a lot of released footage of JonBenet at the pageants. The whole "pageant world" is strange to me. The children with dyed hair, spray tans, fake flipper teeth, full makeup, and Las Vegas showgirl outfits seems wrong to me on many levels.

    The murder near Christmas-time and in her own home is novel. At at time when most are cushioned safely in the bosom of their family something horrible was being done to JonBenet.

    The "War and Peace" staged ransom note which seemed to be written by the hand of her own mother. I know this is a hotly contested subject but my first reaction upon studying the note was that Patsy wrote it.

    The various RDI and IDI theories and how none of the theories I've read (so far) fit perfectly for all the published facts of the crime.
    Mom raising a doll-like pageant winner and mom writing a vicious ransom note to coverup a brutal murder seem to present a conflicting set of motivational forces. IOW where's the motive for PR to partake in murder, coverup of an accident thats better off portrayed as an accident, or handwriting a note surely to be closely examined by multiple experts?

    It would help RDI alot to at least identify a motive thats plausible. Adding drama to an explainable accident (head injury only) isn't plausible because it raises a child kidnap-murder conspiracy with special circumstances (sexual assault from that night) that could lead to the death penalty in Colorado.

    Meanwhile, did you know: "Criminals take advantage of the holiday season to prey on those who are unsuspecting ..."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    Mom raising a doll-like pageant winner and mom writing a vicious ransom note to coverup a brutal murder seem to present a conflicting set of motivational forces. IOW where's the motive for PR to partake in murder, coverup of an accident thats better off portrayed as an accident, or handwriting a note surely to be closely examined by multiple experts?

    It would help RDI alot to at least identify a motive thats plausible. Adding drama to an explainable accident (head injury only) isn't plausible because it raises a child kidnap-murder conspiracy with special circumstances (sexual assault from that night) that could lead to the death penalty in Colorado.

    Meanwhile, did you know: "Criminals take advantage of the holiday season to prey on those who are unsuspecting ..."


    Actually, HOTYH, you are right that certain crimes are common during the holidays - burglaries when people are at church etc. I would be surprised to learn that pre-medidated crimes of violence were especially common. If they were that common, I can't think that so many police departments would allow most of their personnel to go on hols. What can happen is for family snits to become full blown carnage owing to the stress etc of the holidays, people having a few drinks and so on.

    Re motives - I think that, prima facie, the motives of the 20000 parents who feloniously killed their chidren between '74 and '94 (or whatever the years were) would seem less than plausible, too. Happened, though. Look at Diane Downs: murdered one kid and tried to murder another two because she thought that being childless would make her more appealing to a guy... You wouldn't buy that motive in an Agatha Christie novel, never mind true crime. Happened, though...

    The motive point is really only useful for discussion purposes, though, or for suggesting a line of investigation. It won't put anyone behind bars...

    I'm also not really understanding wherein lies the conflict between raising a pageant winner and killing that pageant winner - you seem to be suggesting that no one ever murdered anyone they loved.
    Last edited by Sophie; 07-27-2009 at 04:56 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    Actually, HOTYH, you are right that certain crimes are common during the holidays - burglaries when people are at church etc. I would be surprised to learn that pre-medidated crimes of violence were especially common. If they were that common, I can't think that so many police departments would allow most of their personnel to go on hols. What can happen is for family snits to become full blown carnage owing to the stress etc of the holidays, people having a few drinks and so on.

    Re motives - I think that, prima facie, the motives of the 20000 parents who feloniously killed their chidren between '74 and '94 (or whatever the years were) would seem less than plausible, too. Happened, though. Look at Diane Downs: murdered one kid and tried to murder another two because she thought that being childless would make her more appealing to a guy... You wouldn't buy that motive in an Agatha Christie novel, never mind true crime. Happened, though...

    The motive point is really only useful for discussion purposes, though, or for suggesting a line of investigation. It won't put anyone behind bars...

    I'm also not really understanding wherein lies the conflict between raising a pageant winner and killing that pageant winner - you seem to be suggesting that no one ever murdered anyone they loved.
    In red is the conflicting motive. I never said conflicting motives don't happen, only that they conflict. Besides, RDI usually doesn't even provide a motive for murder. Instead, a theory of how the head blow was accidental followed by the spontaneous, yet self defeating motivation to coverup an otherwise explainable accident to make it look like capital murder.



    Prima facie when applied to JBR indicates IDI by SFF, not filicide. Wouldn't it be something that after 12 or more years we find out that prima facie was right all along? That all we had to do was read the note and look at the evidence, and take it all at face value to find the killer?

    We got off the prima facie track on purpose 12 years ago, and haven't even looked back. There's never been a whisper of prima facie from ML, JR, ST, FBI, BPD, CASKU, or anyone.
    Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 07-27-2009 at 05:26 PM.


  11. #11
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    in addition to what has been stated previously,

    the RN is fascinating. my first post here was on the RN

  12. #12
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    Mom did not write a RN to cover up a brutal murder. Mom wrote a RN to cover up an accidental death that may have been caused by Mom's rage or loss of control.
    Big difference.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  13. #13
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    I'm guessing most of us WSers are simple civilians in this matter. I'm just curious as to what JBR's immediate family members do to try and find her killer? Are they investigating, surfing the Internet for clues, offering rewards, and trying to seek justice for her in any fashion? Or have they simply moved on?

  14. #14
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    they appear on Oprah.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theonly1 View Post
    I'm guessing most of us WSers are simple civilians in this matter. I'm just curious as to what JBR's immediate family members do to try and find her killer? Are they investigating, surfing the Internet for clues, offering rewards, and trying to seek justice for her in any fashion? Or have they simply moved on?
    They are doing NOTHING to try to find her killer. What they are doing is have their lawyers threaten and intimidate anyone else who IS trying to find the killer because the trail leads to the immediate family.
    So the answer is the one BR gave to a psychologist just days after the murder of his little sister: "I just want to move on with my life". And apparently they have.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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