What makes the JBR case fascinating to you?

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Theonly1

Theonly1

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I'm curious as to what keeps us coming back to the JBR case. For me, this case is classic Sherlock Holmes. I always feel we are one step away from putting all the facts together and solving this crime.

Even with the staged crime scene, the fact that the crime scene was unsecured in the initial stages, and the dissention between the police and the district attorneys' office, I feel that there is some loose end that will logically lead to the killer.
 
Interesting question!

The players involved.
The frustration that it might never be solved.
The theories,both RDI and IDI.
Wanting to finally know what really happened.
Everything about it is unique I guess.
 
madeleine said:
Interesting question!

The players involved.
The frustration that it might never be solved.
The theories,both RDI and IDI.
Wanting to finally know what really happened.
Everything about it is unique I guess.
Click to expand...

Here are some things that intrigue me:

The players are interesting. In the immediate family there's the Southern beauty pageant, cancer-surviving Mama raising another beauty pageant winner. JonBenet was gorgeous and doll-like. Daddy seemed quiet and distant. Brother Burke seemed to be a non-entity.

There was also a lot of released footage of JonBenet at the pageants. The whole "pageant world" is strange to me. The children with dyed hair, spray tans, fake flipper teeth, full makeup, and Las Vegas showgirl outfits seems wrong to me on many levels.

The murder near Christmas-time and in her own home is novel. At at time when most are cushioned safely in the bosom of their family something horrible was being done to JonBenet.

The "War and Peace" staged ransom note which seemed to be written by the hand of her own mother. I know this is a hotly contested subject but my first reaction upon studying the note was that Patsy wrote it.

The various RDI and IDI theories and how none of the theories I've read (so far) fit perfectly for all the published facts of the crime.
 
A brilliant question!


There's just so much about this case that makes it intrinsically special:

The Christmas factor; the wealth of the Ramseys; the pageants; the concatenation of circumstances that made it so hard to prosecute this case; Boulder; the Internet subcultures; the fact that so many of the principals were extraordinary people, whether good or 'bad' (eg. A book could be written about Trip de Muth alone, let alone characters like Alex Hunter); Steve Thomas; the (extra)ordinary people like Tricia, SuperDave, DeeDee, Madeleine, ACandyRose, RiverRat and so many more of you who have worked so hard for so long to keep this case alive; the fact that it was pretty much the first case which could be followed so fully so easily via the Internet by people anywhere.

So many things...


But mostly, JonBenet herself. I often think of JBR had she lived. She could have been anything and it's humanity's loss that we'll never find out what that was...
 
I've often asked myself this question, and it keeps coming back to the same answer:

the idea that a little girl could be killed in her own home on Christmas. Doesn't matter by whom.
 
Theonly1 said:
I'm curious as to what keeps us coming back to the JBR case. For me, this case is classic Sherlock Holmes. I always feel we are one step away from putting all the facts together and solving this crime.

Even with the staged crime scene, the fact that the crime scene was unsecured in the initial stages, and the dissention between the police and the district attorneys' office, I feel that there is some loose end that will logically lead to the killer.
Click to expand...
me too.imo it's someone or someones that is going to talk someday.and perhaps that's why JR appears to keep trying to keep his head above the water on this case.
 
Everything about it is unique - M

Ya, for sure, Madeleine, unique and beyond reason.
All the players are intruiging and the nature of the crimes perpetrated aginst JBR are horrific, it reads worse than fiction.

The false accusations, how cybersleuths insinuated themselves into the case, and that the case remains unsloved ... it's all of interest.
 
Theonly1 said:
Here are some things that intrigue me:

The players are interesting. In the immediate family there's the Southern beauty pageant, cancer-surviving Mama raising another beauty pageant winner. JonBenet was gorgeous and doll-like. Daddy seemed quiet and distant. Brother Burke seemed to be a non-entity.

There was also a lot of released footage of JonBenet at the pageants. The whole "pageant world" is strange to me. The children with dyed hair, spray tans, fake flipper teeth, full makeup, and Las Vegas showgirl outfits seems wrong to me on many levels.

The murder near Christmas-time and in her own home is novel. At at time when most are cushioned safely in the bosom of their family something horrible was being done to JonBenet.

The "War and Peace" staged ransom note which seemed to be written by the hand of her own mother. I know this is a hotly contested subject but my first reaction upon studying the note was that Patsy wrote it.

The various RDI and IDI theories and how none of the theories I've read (so far) fit perfectly for all the published facts of the crime.
Click to expand...

Mom raising a doll-like pageant winner and mom writing a vicious ransom note to coverup a brutal murder seem to present a conflicting set of motivational forces. IOW where's the motive for PR to partake in murder, coverup of an accident thats better off portrayed as an accident, or handwriting a note surely to be closely examined by multiple experts?

It would help RDI alot to at least identify a motive thats plausible. Adding drama to an explainable accident (head injury only) isn't plausible because it raises a child kidnap-murder conspiracy with special circumstances (sexual assault from that night) that could lead to the death penalty in Colorado.

Meanwhile, did you know: "Criminals take advantage of the holiday season to prey on those who are unsuspecting ..."
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
Mom raising a doll-like pageant winner and mom writing a vicious ransom note to coverup a brutal murder seem to present a conflicting set of motivational forces. IOW where's the motive for PR to partake in murder, coverup of an accident thats better off portrayed as an accident, or handwriting a note surely to be closely examined by multiple experts?

It would help RDI alot to at least identify a motive thats plausible. Adding drama to an explainable accident (head injury only) isn't plausible because it raises a child kidnap-murder conspiracy with special circumstances (sexual assault from that night) that could lead to the death penalty in Colorado.

Meanwhile, did you know: "Criminals take advantage of the holiday season to prey on those who are unsuspecting ..."
Click to expand...



Actually, HOTYH, you are right that certain crimes are common during the holidays - burglaries when people are at church etc. I would be surprised to learn that pre-medidated crimes of violence were especially common. If they were that common, I can't think that so many police departments would allow most of their personnel to go on hols. What can happen is for family snits to become full blown carnage owing to the stress etc of the holidays, people having a few drinks and so on.

Re motives - I think that, prima facie, the motives of the 20000 parents who feloniously killed their chidren between '74 and '94 (or whatever the years were) would seem less than plausible, too. Happened, though. Look at Diane Downs: murdered one kid and tried to murder another two because she thought that being childless would make her more appealing to a guy... You wouldn't buy that motive in an Agatha Christie novel, never mind true crime. Happened, though...

The motive point is really only useful for discussion purposes, though, or for suggesting a line of investigation. It won't put anyone behind bars...

I'm also not really understanding wherein lies the conflict between raising a pageant winner and killing that pageant winner - you seem to be suggesting that no one ever murdered anyone they loved.
 
Sophie said:
Actually, HOTYH, you are right that certain crimes are common during the holidays - burglaries when people are at church etc. I would be surprised to learn that pre-medidated crimes of violence were especially common. If they were that common, I can't think that so many police departments would allow most of their personnel to go on hols. What can happen is for family snits to become full blown carnage owing to the stress etc of the holidays, people having a few drinks and so on.

Re motives - I think that, prima facie, the motives of the 20000 parents who feloniously killed their chidren between '74 and '94 (or whatever the years were) would seem less than plausible, too. Happened, though. Look at Diane Downs: murdered one kid and tried to murder another two because she thought that being childless would make her more appealing to a guy... You wouldn't buy that motive in an Agatha Christie novel, never mind true crime. Happened, though...

The motive point is really only useful for discussion purposes, though, or for suggesting a line of investigation. It won't put anyone behind bars...

I'm also not really understanding wherein lies the conflict between raising a pageant winner and killing that pageant winner - you seem to be suggesting that no one ever murdered anyone they loved.
Click to expand...

In red is the conflicting motive. I never said conflicting motives don't happen, only that they conflict. Besides, RDI usually doesn't even provide a motive for murder. Instead, a theory of how the head blow was accidental followed by the spontaneous, yet self defeating motivation to coverup an otherwise explainable accident to make it look like capital murder.



Prima facie when applied to JBR indicates IDI by SFF, not filicide. Wouldn't it be something that after 12 or more years we find out that prima facie was right all along? That all we had to do was read the note and look at the evidence, and take it all at face value to find the killer?

We got off the prima facie track on purpose 12 years ago, and haven't even looked back. There's never been a whisper of prima facie from ML, JR, ST, FBI, BPD, CASKU, or anyone.:waitasec:
 
in addition to what has been stated previously,

the RN is fascinating. my first post here was on the RN
 
Mom did not write a RN to cover up a brutal murder. Mom wrote a RN to cover up an accidental death that may have been caused by Mom's rage or loss of control.
Big difference.
 
I'm guessing most of us WSers are simple civilians in this matter. I'm just curious as to what JBR's immediate family members do to try and find her killer? Are they investigating, surfing the Internet for clues, offering rewards, and trying to seek justice for her in any fashion? Or have they simply moved on?
 
Theonly1 said:
I'm guessing most of us WSers are simple civilians in this matter. I'm just curious as to what JBR's immediate family members do to try and find her killer? Are they investigating, surfing the Internet for clues, offering rewards, and trying to seek justice for her in any fashion? Or have they simply moved on?
Click to expand...

They are doing NOTHING to try to find her killer. What they are doing is have their lawyers threaten and intimidate anyone else who IS trying to find the killer because the trail leads to the immediate family.
So the answer is the one BR gave to a psychologist just days after the murder of his little sister: "I just want to move on with my life". And apparently they have.
 
"the conflict between raising a pageant winner and killing that pageant winner"

Ah, but is that the correct conflict? I don't think so. Instead, I suggest it's the paradox between raising a pageant winner and accidentally killing the little bedwetter with the mouth on her who asserts herself."

Just had to interject that here.

I like this case for all the obvious reasons, plus it speaks to our justice system, and how it moves in mysterious ways for the very wealthy in our society. Money can't buy you love, but it can sure pay off a lot of people or gain you unscrupulous friends and bedmates, and that coupled with willing, contributing idiots--see Alex Hunter--can go a long way towards improving or sustaining your lot in life or keeping you out of jail. Of course, narcissism is an important part of the formula. You have to be able to look in someone's eyes and lie to them with conviction. The last is where PR fell flat IMO.
 
Curiosity! I know, pathetic but it's true. I do hope there will be justice for JBR.

Something else that I'm curious about, did JB's death change the way people look at pageants? Maybe change the way parents involve their children in pageants?
 
Theonly1 said:
I'm guessing most of us WSers are simple civilians in this matter. I'm just curious as to what JBR's immediate family members do to try and find her killer? Are they investigating, surfing the Internet for clues, offering rewards, and trying to seek justice for her in any fashion? Or have they simply moved on?
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the years following JB`s death? They have offered a reward, had their own investigators, tried to find clues and think who might have done this. I think it`s LE`s job to investigate, though.

Perhaps at this point, they are just waiting for a possible DNA match (Patsy of course is not with us anymore).
 
Mysteeri said:
Are you talking about the years following JB`s death? They have offered a reward, had their own investigators, tried to find clues and think who might have done this. I think it`s LE`s job to investigate, though.

Perhaps at this point, they are just waiting for a possible DNA match (Patsy of course is not with us anymore).
Click to expand...

Oh sure, it is LE's job. But if my child was missing I'd have a new "job" too. I'm asking about what the family does NOW. You know there are the families that wait ever so patiently for the police to arrest the criminal and wait for the phone to ring. Then you have the other types of family that investigate on their own accord, and even go so far as to beat the streets themselves, always keep their missing child in the public eye, offer rewards and keep them current, maintain webpages, go on television, and do something constructive to find their child (or other missing children). And even poor families do this for their missing children. Imagine what a family with the Ramsey's type of wealth could do.
 
Beautiful little girl, Christmas Time, Parents who were obvious suspects acting different than I think I would act (I would be taking a polygraph test to exclude myself so they could move on to other suspects) possible child *advertiser censored* ring, do pagents attract child molesters, can someone sneak in a house and hang around undetected, (house much bigger than any I have lived in so I have always wondered about that), another daughter dead under odd circumstances, who is right Thomas or Smit?, then when I put thinking about it all the time aside Patsy, John or both were/are in the news and I start thinking about it all the time again. I also think a lot about how people that have missing loved ones or an unsolved murder of a love one cope daily. I pray for them and admire their strength.
 
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