View Poll Results: Will this case ever be formally solved?

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83. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes - someone will have a eureka moment and spot a smoking gun

    7 8.43%
  • Yes - someone will have a moment of conscience and confess all they know

    9 10.84%
  • No - 'the rice is cooked' and our grandchildren will be discussing the case

    47 56.63%
  • No because it's hard formally to pin a crime on a dead person

    20 24.10%
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    OK, HOTYH, I can take that all on board but I do think there are USisms outside the movie stuff - as I mention on previous post, the reference to 'Law Enforcement.' The police here don't enforce the law, they keep the Queen's peace

    Levity aside, though, one thing I have to grant you is that non-native Anglophones can pick up a mix of US and British English.

    The length of the letter could speak to staging, copycats of Loeb and Leopold, filling (as I have seen you refer to it) - that is one thing that I think points to no culture in particular.
    Yeah, but the expression 'law enforcement' doesn't drop the RN into US-English either. The RN is plain awkward in US-English. Nobody says or writes 'the two gentlemen watching..." Its just too stuffy for US-English. Granted its not British-English but its too proper and wordy for US-English, IMO.

    A veteran FBI profiler says he has never seen anything so bizarre as the JBR case.

    Main Entry:bizarrePart of Speech:adjectiveDefinition:strange, wildSynonyms:bugged out, camp*, comical, curious, eccentric, extraordinary, fantastic, far-out, freakish, grody, grotesque, kooky, ludicrous, odd, oddball, off the wall, offbeat, outlandish, outré, peculiar, queer, ridiculous, singular, unusual, way-out, weird Notes:a bazaar is a shop or market while bizarre means odd or unusual
    macabre means shockingly repellent or inspiring horror; bizarre means odd or unusualAntonyms:normal, reasonable, usual

    There's nothing normal, reasonable, or usual about the ransom note, as far as US-English is concerned. The expressions and the handwriting are peculiar and outlandish. The word foreign comes to mind?
    Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 07-31-2009 at 10:31 PM.


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  3. #62
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    Hi HOTYH,

    Are you sure that a Southern Belle wouldn't say 'The two gentlemen?'

    Generally, though, I think a review of the ransom notes of literature would be useful.

    Equally, one of my first posts on here was about the similarity between the RN and the RN one of the blokes in my Hall of Residence at uni wrote when kidnapping the goldfish from one of the communal areas. I honestly think that you need to look at what an outsider would expect to see in a RN rather than what is 'stuffy.'

    For me, though, the use of proof-reading carels points to a journalist....


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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    Granted its not British-English but its too proper and wordy for US-English, IMO.
    (SD whistles "Don't Worry, Be Happy.")
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


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  7. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    Hi HOTYH,

    Are you sure that a Southern Belle wouldn't say 'The two gentlemen?'

    Generally, though, I think a review of the ransom notes of literature would be useful.

    Equally, one of my first posts on here was about the similarity between the RN and the RN one of the blokes in my Hall of Residence at uni wrote when kidnapping the goldfish from one of the communal areas. I honestly think that you need to look at what an outsider would expect to see in a RN rather than what is 'stuffy.'

    For me, though, the use of proof-reading carels points to a journalist....
    I was thinking secretary, actually.


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  9. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    Re para C - true but to me it suggests a degree of fluency, almost bilingualism. However, I'll accept your definition and change mine to 'Fluent Anglophone with utter US cutural literacy.' I'm a native Anglophone raised on a steady diet of Americana but I don't think I could have written so persuasively American a letter*. In fact, a violent criminal who dislikes America and its capitalism, speaks perfect US English and is thoroughly steeped in the externalities of US capitalism (like its movies etc), is connected with the Ramseys and is of independent wealth (have to be if he only needs $118k) is a fairly small subset, I'd say, HOTYH.
    Having looked it up, apparently the RN author doesn't write in perfect US English. Pickup should've not been hyphenated, and 'At this time' should've had a comma. While there are some non-street terms like attache, proper burial, and the two gentlemen, the higher language is not matched by the punctuation, spelling, or handwriting.
    Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 07-31-2009 at 10:55 PM.


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  11. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    Hi HOTYH,

    Are you sure that a Southern Belle wouldn't say 'The two gentlemen?'

    Generally, though, I think a review of the ransom notes of literature would be useful.
    What you're asking me to do is apply selective logic. On the one hand, PR is supposed to be masking her identity by disguising her handwriting and pretending to be angry SFF. On the other hand, PR is volunteering expressions that reveal her culture.

    "Use that good southern common sense"? What SFF that doesn't respect this country cares about north or south?


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  13. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    Having looked it up, apparently the RN author doesn't write in perfect US English. Pickup should've not been hyphenated, and 'At this time' should've had a comma. While there are some non-street terms like attache, proper burial, and the two gentlemen, the higher language is not matched by the punctuation, spelling, or handwriting.

    I know what you mean, HOTYH, but this note was written in the Ramsey house so you'd expect some lapses in grammar etc through sheer panic and the writer wanted to disguise his or her own style and identity.


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  15. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    What you're asking me to do is apply selective logic. On the one hand, PR is supposed to be masking her identity by disguising her handwriting and pretending to be angry SFF. On the other hand, PR is volunteering expressions that reveal her culture.

    "Use that good southern common sense"? What SFF that doesn't respect this country cares about north or south?


    I'm not, HOTYH. The whole premise of the RDI notion that Patsy wrote the note is that she tried to disguise herself but gave herself away. I'm not sure how that is asking you to apply selective logic - it's just asking you to look at Patsy too..


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  17. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    I'm not, HOTYH. The whole premise of the RDI notion that Patsy wrote the note is that she tried to disguise herself but gave herself away. I'm not sure how that is asking you to apply selective logic - it's just asking you to look at Patsy too..
    More selective logic: PR was panicking vs. PR called 911 hours before the RN said to.


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  19. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    Having looked it up, apparently the RN author doesn't write in perfect US English. Pickup should've not been hyphenated, and 'At this time' should've had a comma. While there are some non-street terms like attache, proper burial, and the two gentlemen, the higher language is not matched by the punctuation, spelling, or handwriting.


    Did you look at Patsy's hyphenation, HOTYH? If I'm understanding your analysis correctly, there are a number of atypical (of US) hyphenations there, too.


    But I'm generally not sure where we got caught up in this idea of 'perfect'' US English. I'd suggest that most people on here had very good educations. I'd also suggest that most people had the odd linguistic lapse. You look at the generality of the tone and see intelligence, education, natural 'smarts' etc.


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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    What you're asking me to do is apply selective logic. On the one hand, PR is supposed to be masking her identity by disguising her handwriting and pretending to be angry SFF. On the other hand, PR is volunteering expressions that reveal her culture.
    Pardon me, folks. Hate to butt in; I find this exchange riveting. But just to add my 2 cents, HOTYH, no one's asking you to apply selective logic, not at all. All I'm saying (speaking for myself) is that we can pretend (your word, and a good one) to be something we're not, but a little of our real selves still slips through, especially where an amateur is concerned.

    I realize this may not be the greatest analogy, but I liken it to a person trying to lie. They may have the words right, but little things in the face still give it away, unless they have a lot of practice.

    Think about it.

    We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


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  23. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    I'm not, HOTYH. The whole premise of the RDI notion that Patsy wrote the note is that she tried to disguise herself but gave herself away. I'm not sure how that is asking you to apply selective logic - it's just asking you to look at Patsy too..


    I just said that! Though, to be honest, you said it better than I did!
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


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  25. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    More selective logic: PR was panicking vs. PR called 911 hours before the RN said to.
    Will someone please help me out here since I'm getting to a point where I may snap and accuse HOTYH of deliberate obtuseness and I like him enough to not want to do that?

    I didn't say PR was panicking. I said that there was a modicum of panic that could be expected in the RN. The RN actually told them not to call 911 so I'm not sure why you raise that as an example of selective logic or of PR not panicking.


  26. #74
    ...just look at the xmas letter,patsy made mistakes,one of them "Jonbenet become Little Miss colorado" instead of "became'...imagine her in a stressful situation...I think you're right ,Sophie,that note has overdramatic southern belle written all over it...only Patsy would have even refered to their southern roots....hotyh...do you really think JonBenet was killed for political reasons?...how many socialists,communists or whatever have slaughtered random rich kids in the past?...the ramsey's were not THAT rich or that important...only in Patsy's mind...if someone was trying to make a point politically don't you think they'd choose a family with more influence????...
    ....oh and another thing...if it was my child and the rn specifically states not to call le i'd wait with the money ready to hear from the abductors and there's noooo way in the world i'd call all my friends thinking the perps are watching my house...


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  28. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    More selective logic: PR was panicking vs. PR called 911 hours before the RN said to.
    Just to cut in again, I fail to see how that's an example of selective logic. Just from my perspective, the two are not mutually exclusive, not by a long shot.

    Here's what I mean: let's say the head blow came around Midnight-1:00 AM. The 911 call wasn't made until almost 6:00 AM. That's 5-6 hours. So yes, she could easily have been panicking to start and regained her senses over time. (Especially if anti-anxiety medication was involved. NOTE: I have no proof she took any, but I have no proof she DIDN'T, either.)

    Moreover, this "calling before the RN said to" business is old hat: what choice was there? I'm dead serious-what choice was there? Everyone in the whole town knew they had to meet their plane that morning. If they didn't show, someone would have come looking for them.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


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