What was part of the staging,what not?

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madeleine

madeleine

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Even if it was an intruder I think you can say the RN was part of a staging,unless you think it was indeed a SFF .

What do you think was part of the staging and why was it done?Maybe eliminating the elements of the staging will get us closer to what REALLY happened.


IMO:

RN-was written in order to divert attention from the real problem-abuse & point the finger at someone else

LIGATURE-to cover other marks left on her neck (smothering,sexual games,no idea)

WRIST LIGATURE- to support the kidnapping theory

REDRESSING/WIPING DOWN- a desperate attempt to clean/cover abuse traces
 
Forgot about the piece of
TAPE- another item suggesting kidnapping
 
LOCATION of the body:where was she killed in the first place
Fleet didn't see the body in the basememnt and at some point JR mentioned that he found her at 11Am
 
madeleine said:
Even if it was an intruder I think you can say the RN was part of a staging,unless you think it was indeed a SFF .

What do you think was part of the staging and why was it done?Maybe eliminating the elements of the staging will get us closer to what REALLY happened.


IMO:

RN-was written in order to divert attention from the real problem-abuse & point the finger at someone else

LIGATURE-to cover other marks left on her neck (smothering,sexual games,no idea)

WRIST LIGATURE- to support the kidnapping theory

REDRESSING/WIPING DOWN- a desperate attempt to clean/cover abuse traces
Click to expand...

TAPE- to support the kidnapping theory.

VAGINAL INJURY- to suggest a pervert killer and/or cover previous signs.
 
So IMO what we really have here is sexual abuse,signs of agression on her neck and a head bash.The rest is cover -up .
An intruder would never bother and spend all the amount of time necessary for this kind of staging .
IMO the staging took more time than the actual crime in this case.
 
I always wonder about the double knot and handle on the ligature - you can't have both and strangle someone if you obey the laws of physics (if I'm understanding Delmar's treatise properly).

It's less the ligature than the mad elaboration of the ligature that strikes me as staging. And it's also something that I resent in both the Douglas and Smit analyses of the crime. They claim that a parent couldn't have twisted the 'garrote' and watched JBR's face to see if she was dead. In fact, the actual ligature would require no such thing..

The 911 call always seems a tad staged to me - the hyperventilation and odd language may be attributable to panic or to acting. 'I'm the mother...we have a kidnapping (Is it just me or is 'we have a kidnapping'something that LE would say to LE rather than something a 911 caller would say?) ...she's blonde'
 
And PR always saying she never read the entire RN but knew the ending..And with no fingerprints on it just leaves to mind the RN was wrote then torn out just before the officer showed up...But the 911 call was just acting on my belief....
 
Dunno where I read this but it said JR didn't even notice the ligature around her neck when he took her upstairs.Huh?
And all the people who needed to tell him she IS dead,I mean he didn't even check her pulse?
Oh my,I begin to understand why he didn't want to be questioned by LE.
 
Re the 911 call....I find it strange that she didn't mention ALL the THREATS.I mean,I would have been very scared to call LE,not to mention I would have sat down for about ten minutes to decide what's best to do or NOT to.And being JR I would have definitely called other people first.

911 call-part of the drama as well
 
And two different stories coming from JR and FW on how JB was laying in the basement...Now above all this can't even be a simple straight answer more confusion pitting two words against the other..For one can anything be simple in this case..
 
Ravyn said:
And two different stories coming from JR and FW on how JB was laying in the basement...Now above all this can't even be a simple straight answer more confusion pitting two words against the other..For one can anything be simple in this case..
Click to expand...

I've never seen FW's description of how she was laying. How does it differ from JR's version?
 
I don't buy the "well FW didn't see her because the lights weren't on and JR probably switched them on and that's how he saw her but doesn't recall now if he did or didn't"

I don't think the body was there when FW went down to the basement and I understand why the R's always thought FW is a pain in their @@@@@.He was their friend and he probably immediately felt that something stinks big time.The contradictions,everything.

There are some depositions out there but FW's remained sealed.Does anyone know why?
 
JR didn't see her,he knew she was there.IMO
 
Why does JR keep mentioning the refrigerator? :waitasec:

JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I'm sure I started to

11 check some of the areas, like the refrigerator and

12 just trying to check this area?





And is she

11 in the closet or in the refrigerator or behind the

12 curtain.



JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I don't remember

0171

1 specifically. I remember, because the first thing

2 that goes through your mind is: she's missing,

3 where is she. And I remember opening the

4 refrigerator; it's a walk-in refrigerator.



JOHN RAMSEY: No. I mean, the first thing

12 that came to my mind was the refrigerator. I don't

13 know why. I had to look in there and she wasn't

14 there. I mean it was a combination of trying to

15 see if she was in the house,


JOHN RAMSEY: I know I looked in the refrigerator.

17 We have this walk-in refrigerator. We always

18 worried about the kids getting in there.



JOHN RAMSEY: I think I ran back

3 up and looked in her room, and I think accepted

4 the fact that she was gone. And you know, I

5 don't remember, I mean I said I remember I

6 looked in the refrigerator.


Is he trying to explain his prints on it?Why?
All this refrigerator talk makes no sense at all.The RN clearly said she was kidnapped,right?
 
The (alleged) placing of the RN looks like staging. Why those stairs? Why laid out like that? Why was it that important that Patsy find it the second she went downstairs? I think a mother would notice her child's absence quickly enough and placing the note on the kitchen table would suffice.
 
Most crimes are as they appear to be. Lou Smit said he only had one case in 100's where there was actual staging. Relying on his experience, then it was a kidnapping gone bad by amateurs.
 
Maikai said:
Most crimes are as they appear to be. Lou Smit said he only had one case in 100's where there was actual staging. Relying on his experience, then it was a kidnapping gone bad by amateurs.
Click to expand...

Last time I checked L.Smit didn't believe it was a kidnapping gone wrong that involved amateurs.
 
Maikai said:
Most crimes are as they appear to be. Lou Smit said he only had one case in 100's where there was actual staging. Relying on his experience, then it was a kidnapping gone bad by amateurs.
Click to expand...

Most crimes, not all. The murder of a millionaire's daughter in her own home on Christmas night by people who a) knew the house and b) knew the Ramseys and c) wandered around the home with no fear that John might be exercising his constitutional right to bear arms is not most crimes, so even using Smit's expression, this could be the one in hundreds that was actually staged.

Equally, he's talking about crimes where police realise there's been staging. He has no clue about the real statistic.

He essentially over-looked the pineapple and the RN in coming to his conclusion and in fact resorted to scientific impossibilities to support his stun gun theory. He used non-pristine crime scene photos to support his views (eg. suggesting that the ruffling of the bedding was suggestive of someone having hidden under the bed despite testimony that Fleet White, had in a panic, rushed round looking under all the beds in case JBR was just hiding). IMO, he was so flushed with his own publicity in the Heather Church case, which depended on one bit of evidence that everyone else had over-looked, that he thought that spotting a stray packing peanut would solve the case. Seriously, MaiKai, do a search on FFJ for the list of crimes he failed to solve and you might find that you are a tad less impressed.

If he'd come to his conclusions without speaking to the Ramseys (as LE essentially had to given that the Ramseys wouldn't co-operate), his view might be less suspect.
 
madeleine said:
Last time I checked L.Smit didn't believe it was a kidnapping gone wrong that involved amateurs.
Click to expand...


Indeed - last I knew he was fingering a dead person and an innocent person in the Mills and Tracey documentaries.
 
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