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Thread: MTR Discussions

  1. #251
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    Posted this on the general discussion board, thought I'd post it here also:

    http://www.680news.com/news/headline...25_114832_6040

    Accused in Tori Stafford case makes court appearance
    The Canadian Press Woodstock, Ont. | Friday, September 25th, 2009 11:49 am Woodstock, Ont. - A man accused in the abduction and murder of eight-year-old Victoria Stafford of Woodstock, Ont., has made another court appearance.

    Both Michael Rafferty, 28, and co-accused Terri-Lynn McClintic, 19, are charged with first-degree murder and kidnapping.

    Tori disappeared from outside her Woodstock school in April and her remains were found on July 19 north of Guelph, Ont.

    At Rafferty's brief appearance Friday, a judicial pre-trial meeting was set for October 8.

    One of his lawyers, Scott Reid, said that meeting will essentially lay the groundwork for an upcoming preliminary hearing.

    Rafferty will then make another video court appearance on October 16.

    Finally, things are finally starting to move along, I figured it was going to be just another remand!

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  3. #252
    Police do make mistakes - see the following link:

    http://www.hugesettlements.com/Perso...jury/3414.html

    This is just one case of the many that can be found on the internet.

    I found the line that "the DA dropped the charges and released Mr. Fitzsimmons without so much as an apology" interesting.

    Just wondering what kind of long term effect this would have on MR's life if he is actually found innocent - probably would lead the rest of his life under a cloud of suspicion just like JG.

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  5. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonfictionrocks View Post
    Police do make mistakes - see the following link:

    http://www.hugesettlements.com/Perso...jury/3414.html

    This is just one case of the many that can be found on the internet.

    I found the line that "the DA dropped the charges and released Mr. Fitzsimmons without so much as an apology" interesting.

    Just wondering what kind of long term effect this would have on MR's life if he is actually found innocent - probably would lead the rest of his life under a cloud of suspicion just like JG.
    Sometimes the police get it stuck in their head that the person they have charged is actually guilty and then try to make the evidence fit. I just finished reading a true crime story, where there was absolutely no physical evidence of the two that were charged with murder were actually at the scene, yet both boys received life. I could see it having a long term effect on MR, if in fact he is innocent (and I'm not saying he is, because I haven't seen/heard the evidence against him). I also agree Nonfiction - that once you've been charged, even if you are found innocent, there will always be people out there that will wonder, and no doubt it affects the rest of your life, job, friends, etc.

    I'm hoping that they shed some light to the public after the pre-trial meeting on the 8th of October.

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  7. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonfictionrocks View Post
    Just wondering what kind of long term effect this would have on MR's life if he is actually found innocent - probably would lead the rest of his life under a cloud of suspicion just like JG.
    (Respectfully snipped)

    This is what his good friend, Wendell, posted back in May about this. I have never forgotten it.

    "if he is not guilty, he very well may not be the type of person to mentally come back from this... it could kill him either way."

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3798457&postcount=264"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada-Victoria Stafford, 8, Woodstock, Ontario; thread #16[/ame]
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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  9. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    (Respectfully snipped)

    This is what his good friend, Wendell, posted back in May about this. I have never forgotten it.

    "if he is not guilty, he very well may not be the type of person to mentally come back from this... it could kill him either way."

    Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada-Victoria Stafford, 8, Woodstock, Ontario; thread #16
    It's likely best forgotten, because when the details come out about Tori's murder nobody is going to be feeling sympathy for anyone but the victims.

    Last edited by Turbododger; 09-28-2009 at 07:57 PM. Reason: spelling

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  11. #256
    Has anyone heard the following things about Rafferty?

    1. He frequented a Williams Coffee House in London?
    2. He has ties to Chatham?
    3. His mother's house is now being occupied by her old boyfriend David R.?
    Last edited by Turbododger; 10-10-2009 at 08:15 PM. Reason: remove last name

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  13. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbododger View Post
    Has anyone heard the following things about Rafferty?

    1. He frequented a Williams Coffee House in London?
    2. He has ties to Chatham?
    3. His mother's house is now being occupied by her old boyfriend David R.?
    1. he sure gets around
    2. no, but will try to get the scoop on this
    3. interesting

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  15. #258
    MR in court tomorrow - I heard that he has been moved to a cozier environment. Maybe this means that he will actually appear in person on Friday.

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  17. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonfictionrocks View Post
    MR in court tomorrow - I heard that he has been moved to a cozier environment. Maybe this means that he will actually appear in person on Friday.
    I wonder if the move had anything to do with the pre-trial meeting that occurred last week. I suspect it will just be another remand, as there can be numerous pre-trial meetings between the crown and defense attorney. It will be interesting to hear what (if anything) is said tomorrow in court.

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  19. #260
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    The man charged with abducting and killing Victoria (Tori) Stafford has been moved to jail in Chatham.

    Michael Thomas Rafferty appeared in a Woodstock courtroom today via a video link from the Chatham jail.

    Rafferty had been at Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre in London.

    His counsel, Laura Giordano would not provide details yesterday on the reasons for the move. "I can't comment as to why he was moved."

    She said it happened recently.

    Rafferty's next video appearance is scheduled for Nov. 12.

    Stafford disappeared after school on April 8 and a massive public and police search took place for her. Her body was found near Mount Forest on July 19, just days after what would have been her ninth birthday.

    Rafferty is charged along with Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18. with first-degree murder and abduction.

    Rafferty's lawyer has said the Woodstock man will plead not guilty.

    A preliminary hearing is expected to take place next year.
    http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../11424736.html
    Last edited by nettie_82; 10-16-2009 at 10:41 AM.
    Our memories shape us, providing a backdrop for our daily lives, a context for our actions, a rationale for our sometimes dubious decisions. Who we are today is inextricably woven through with memories of who we were yesterday, and the days before that.

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  21. #261
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    It's outrageous that he's been moved to a much 'cozier' environment because things were too 'tough' at London-Middlesex. The accused seem to have more rights than their victims and the families of the victims.

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  23. #262
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    In case anyone is interested TM has just posted on the FB group that MTR was moved because he claims he was being mistreated. She is the one who contacted the media about the move.

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  25. #263
    I just don't get the reasoning behind moving MR an additional 1.5 hours further away from his T.O. lawyer(s) when we have a very nice facility in Milton?

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  27. #264
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    Maybe Bubba had a nice talkin to MR!!

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  29. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousJorge View Post
    Maybe Bubba had a nice talkin to MR!!
    Hey CJ - long time!

    Was MR on Bubba's Dance Card too - LOL

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  31. #266
    I'm acquainted with some Fergus farmers who'd love to give MTR a "trial by pitchfork" instead of the Chatham Jail treatment he's now receiving which sounds like Karla's playhouse or "perks for the perp."

    I hope the trial is not held here; there's little sympathy for him in this city. Not all of his ex-girlfriends have posted information about him in the public domain or contacted media sources. Instead, they've gone quietly to the police and confided privately to family and friends. Some of them think he's guilty and also claim he's a real whiner fixated at a child's level of psycho-sexual development.

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  33. #267

    Narcissism

    Sometimes, a person's LACK of a comment, speaks volumes.

    Sometimes, people lose track of what is really important. They have their own agendas, are selfish, and think of nothing but themselves. I guess that is what is called narcissism.

    Narcissism:

    The term narcissism' refers to the personality trait of self-esteem, which includes the set of character traits concerned with self-image or ego. The terms narcissism, narcissistic, and narcissist are often used as pejoratives, denoting vanity, conceit, egotism or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an
    indifference to the plight of others

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism[/ame]

    It is very interesting to me, that there are some who are involved in Victoria's case, that have flocked together. You know what they say....

    I do believe they all share this same trait. It is a common theme. Narcissism.

    Well, guess what? It is not about them. It is about the victim.

    Victoria Stafford

    Beautiful child, never forgotten.

    That is who it is about. Don't forget it.


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  35. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by nonfictionrocks View Post
    I just don't get the reasoning behind moving MR an additional 1.5 hours further away from his T.O. lawyer(s) when we have a very nice facility in Milton?
    maybe there was no room at the inn?

    honestly, i don't get what all the "hubbub" is about, no one knows for sure that he's being treated any better in chatham than he was in london nor do they know for sure what he gets as far as "perks."

    i can't wait to find out though and if the rumours of abuse by guards are true, then i can't wait to find out if they were paid by someone to do the abusing.
    Last edited by dilbert; 10-17-2009 at 01:59 AM. Reason: spelling

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  37. #269
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    I took Turbo's post about narcissists and some of the people involved in Victoria's case flocking together to mean the players in the case. I can't imagine that Turbo was talking about posters at websleuths, if that's what you're referring to.
    Last edited by christine2448; 10-23-2009 at 09:48 PM. Reason: post quoted deleted

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  39. #270
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    TM outraged with move.

    Here is a link from the LFP about MR being moved.

    http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2...31661-sun.html

    But one of the sources that tipped off The Free Press about the move said Rafferty had made several complaints about the mail delivery, phone access and taunting by guards and other inmates at EMDC.
    Especially upsetting to Rafferty were threats from members of the Bandidos motorcycle gang, also held at EMDC on murder charges, the source said.


    He's allowed more privileges, such as snacks and access to a television, the source said.

    "There aren't as many rules governing him."
    This makes me sick to think that he gets more privileges!
    Last edited by flipflop; 10-17-2009 at 10:18 AM.

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  41. #271
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    The bandidos are starting to grow on me

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  43. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipflop View Post
    Here is a link from the LFP about MR being moved.

    http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2...31661-sun.html

    But one of the sources that tipped off The Free Press about the move said Rafferty had made several complaints about the mail delivery, phone access and taunting by guards and other inmates at EMDC.
    Especially upsetting to Rafferty were threats from members of the Bandidos motorcycle gang, also held at EMDC on murder charges, the source said.


    He's allowed more privileges, such as snacks and access to a television, the source said.

    "There aren't as many rules governing him."
    This makes me sick to think that he gets more privileges!
    If he's already whining about being taunted by guards and other inmates he's in for trouble when he gets up here to Kingston in the Federal system. I heard lots of people can't wait for him to get here. It always amazes me to hear this sort of thing, it's like, what you didn't think that when you abduct and murder a little girl that there would be consequences, or maybe you just didn't think you'd get caught?

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  45. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by flipflop View Post
    Here is a link from the LFP about MR being moved.

    http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2...31661-sun.html

    But one of the sources that tipped off The Free Press about the move said Rafferty had made several complaints about the mail delivery, phone access and taunting by guards and other inmates at EMDC.
    Especially upsetting to Rafferty were threats from members of the Bandidos motorcycle gang, also held at EMDC on murder charges, the source said.


    He's allowed more privileges, such as snacks and access to a television, the source said.

    "There aren't as many rules governing him."
    This makes me sick to think that he gets more privileges!
    he gets more privilages because he's awaiting trial, that is the law, even though often times those who are detained while awaiting trial are treated worse than those who have already been sentenced.

    an intereseting read, especially the last part

    http://www.johnhoward.on.ca/pdfs/fctsh-17.pdf

    The consequences of pre-trial detention Canada is a signatory to the United
    Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights which states that
    accused persons are to be segregated from convicted persons and treated
    appro priate to their status as accused persons. Appropriate treatment is
    further defined in other United Nations documents to indicate that untried
    persons should be afforded better living conditions and freer access to the
    community than sentenced prisoners.
    This certainly is not the case in Ontario. In addition to the “ normal” toll
    of the loss of liberty and of prison life on the incarcerated person, the
    prison experience in Ontario is often harsher for untried prisoners than for sentenced prisoners.
    All remand prisoners are held in maximum security prisons, regardless of the nature of the alleged
    offence and whether the person is a first-time offender or has an extensive criminal background.
    Conditions in these facilities are often overcrowded and unsanitary and dangerous.
    Last edited by dilbert; 10-17-2009 at 02:21 PM.

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  47. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxfactor View Post
    If he's already whining about being taunted by guards and other inmates he's in for trouble when he gets up here to Kingston in the Federal system. I heard lots of people can't wait for him to get here. It always amazes me to hear this sort of thing, it's like, what you didn't think that when you abduct and murder a little girl that there would be consequences, or maybe you just didn't think you'd get caught?
    I am sure he will cross paths again with the Bandito's!

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  49. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by dilbert View Post
    he gets more privilages because he's awaiting trial, that is the law, even though often times those who are detained while awaiting trial are treated worse than those who have already been sentenced.

    an intereseting read, especially the last part

    http://www.johnhoward.on.ca/pdfs/fctsh-17.pdf
    Is anyone here familiar with the John Howard society?

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