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Thread: MTR Discussions

  1. #151
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    MR's past

    This is just my opinion but I have a strong feeling that MR was shuffled around from city to city and town to town because he has some sort of behavioural and emotional issues. I also feel that he may have spent some time himself in juvenile detention.

    Also, did TCFC or some other friends mention that MR took the train to get around? TIA

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  3. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by matou View Post
    This is just my opinion but I have a strong feeling that MR was shuffled around from city to city and town to town because he has some sort of behavioural and emotional issues. I also feel that he may have spent some time himself in juvenile detention.

    Also, did TCFC or some other friends mention that MR took the train to get around? TIA
    This could well be, Matou.

    The thing that gets me, is if his Mom worked at the abrasives plant 30 plus years, we can assume that she must have been fairly local.

    Now, Drayton, Palmerston, and Woodstock are all local enough to get to the plant.

    Thunder Bay, Yukon, Richmond Hill, Toronto are not.

    I think it safe to assume that Richmond Hill, Toronto and Guelph were likely late teens and into the 20's. Easy enough to see how he had been all over.

    So that leaves Thunder Bay and Yukon. Quite far and what is the connection?

    This is assuming that what he said on his Skydrive is true.

    We have confirmation of Drayton/Palmerston, Woodstock, Guelph and Toronto from his friends, FWIW.

    If you are approximately 12-13 in Junior High, and give or take a couple of years for him being in Drayton around that time, that would make the years perhaps 1991-1994?

    I think there is a tie to TLM being in Thunder Bay as well, isn't there?

    We know his Skydrive pics were dated, I *think* alot of the stuff was from 2006 apx. That would "mean" that he would have lived in those places prior to 2006, correct?

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  5. #153
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    (Respectfully snipped and BBM)

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbododger View Post
    I am confused as to the discussion of disassociation of MTR by his father at birth or soon after? I realize it's possible, but on what basis are we discussing this?
    The only info about MTR's father came from Nurse_Sleuth:

    "I dont think his father had much to do with him ever, and to my knowledge his mom never married his father."

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4069621#post4069621"]MTR Discussions - Page 4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    If indeed it is him, would it not be better to come forward now, if indeed he is his father, than risk the bad public relations later at the trial? I don't really think it can be supressed. As AG pointed out, there have been many, many high profile politicians, lawyers (Bryant?) etc. who's family members have been involved in crime.
    Unless it has some bearing on his guilt or innocence, I don't see why MTR's paternity has to come up at the trial at all. Why would it? Certainly his father's presence, or lack of it, in his life could never be used as a defense. I'd be interested in how it could be used by the prosecution, but even so, I don't see why his father would have to be identified.

    IMO, it's quite possible we will never learn who MTR's biological father is and I have forgotten what its relevance is supposed to be. Can someone remind me, please?
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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  7. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    I've been told by a lawyer that LE needs only the slimmest suspicion of wrong doing to make an arrest. It can also be called "taken into custody". They can then release you if they wish. It's the pressing of charges that's much harder to do without evidence. (I believe I quoted him in another thread.)

    Several years ago I had a friend who was handcuffed and taken into custody for possession of stolen goods. He didn't know they were stolen and had them out in public view. LE questioned him for about 12 hours before he was finally released and cleared. He had to give up the person who sold him these goods and this person was later arrested and charged. It then cost my friend $10,000 for a lawyer to get his name expunged from police records.

    It's my opinion that MR was taken into custody on suspicion, but with little or no evidence. At some point within the next six or seven hours, they acquired enough evidence to charge him. Where this evidence came from is anyone's guess.

    Here is just one example of people being arrested and released for lack of evidence. It's from the Karissa Boudreau case.

    "Police probing the murder of a 12-year-old Nova Scotia girl say they arrested and later released two suspects in the case due to a lack of evidence."

    http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a
    Yes I realize that being arrested is not the same as being charged. Actually police can only hold someone on suspicion for 48 hours I believe, if they have not charged them then they must release them within this time frame. I agree though I believe whatever evidence they have on him was found or substantiated the day he was arrested and charged.
    Sympathy is prejudice disguised as pity.

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  9. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post

    IMO, it's quite possible we will never learn who MTR's biological father is and I have forgotten what its relevance is supposed to be. Can someone remind me, please?
    (Respectfully snipped)

    I believe it orginated from an off the cuff comment from a poster suggesting along the lines of "what if MR was the son of a prominent figure". It was just a speculation to perhaps explain the change in legal representation from the firm in London to the much larger one in Toronto, although we know this happens all the time in high profile cases. Someone followed up with the link to JR in TB and upon further research there appeared to be some similarities location-wise from where they both were born, had lived and gone to school.

    If you qualify for legal aid can you in fact obtain a lawyer from outside the jurisdiction - if so, why doesn't MR hire OJ's lawyer and TLM hire KH's lawyer. As a taxpayer I hope that there are some restrictions or flat fee rates. If a lawyer from Toronto takes a case in Woodstock pro bono or flat fee legal aid, would it necessarily be a case that they have a chance of winning or would they take it for the media exposure - I guess both is what they ultimately strive for.

    If the lawyer in Toronto is neither paid by legal aid or providing representation pro bono just who is footing this bill? If MR's mom's boyfriend was complaining about him sponging off his mother I am guessing that money could be tight for her and her house (even with the mortgage fully paid off) might get this lawyers services to maybe February. This was the reason I was interested in pursuing the JR "angle"; the father who never did anything for his kid growing (including financial support) might be able to pitch in for the legal defence and maybe get him a lighter sentence (as unpopular that thought is here on this forum) JMO FWIW.
    Last edited by nonfictionrocks; 09-03-2009 at 12:02 AM.

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  11. #156
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    FWIW: I've been told that MTR's birthdate is October 26, 1980 and that he has his Grade 12.
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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  13. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    FWIW: I've been told that MTR's birthdate is October 26, 1980 and that he has his Grade 12.
    Is this just what he told someone though? Seems to me he's a pathological liar.
    (I'm referring to the Grade 12 part) According to the biography of the man who we are wondering about being MR's father, lol, he was in University at that time but doesn't say where.
    Last edited by maxfactor; 09-03-2009 at 11:01 AM. Reason: adding info

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  15. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxfactor View Post
    Is this just what he told someone though? Seems to me he's a pathological liar.
    (I'm referring to the Grade 12 part) According to the biography of the man who we are wondering about being MR's father, lol, he was in University at that time but doesn't say where.
    (BBM)

    Sorry, I wasn't told where the information originated.
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

  16. #159
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    I as well dont believe he graduated grade 12, the HS he attended said he only recieved a few credits in grade 9. I dont know where the article is but I do remember reading it the day following his arrests.
    I believe MTR is a highly manipulative man. Indictive of his manipulation skills is how easily women fall in love with him. DC only was with him a matter of weeks yet she remained loyal even after he was accused of killing a child? I believe most of us would have ran scared when we heard this and suffered great embarassment and humiliation. I am not saying there is anything wrong with DC or her character I just believe she has been manipulated by a man who is a master manipulator. MOO of course.
    Sympathy is prejudice disguised as pity.

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  18. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    (BBM)

    Sorry, I wasn't told where the information originated.

    maxfactor and antiquegirl,

    If this is the same JR:

    DEGREES
    Bachelor of Education, The University of Western Ontario, Ontario 1979
    Bachelor of Arts, University of Waterloo, Ontario 1979


    PROGRAM OF TEACHER EDUCATION
    Professional education program completed in Ontario, Faculty of Education, The University of Western Ontario, Ontario 1979


    http://www.oct.ca/PublicRegister/mem...emberID=382726

    HTH!

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  20. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    I as well dont believe he graduated grade 12, the HS he attended said he only recieved a few credits in grade 9. I dont know where the article is but I do remember reading it the day following his arrests.
    <snip>

    I think this is the article:

    http://www.thestar.com/article/638574

    "Rafferty claimed on his MySpace page to have graduated from Alexander Mackenzie High School, but the Richmond Hill school says it didn't happen. Rafferty only attended from Sept. '95 to March '96, acquiring just one credit, a York Region school board spokesman said."
    Based on a 1980 bd, that would put MR at 15 when he was last known to attend AMHS. It was stated elsewhere (?) that MR claimed to have attended the Culinary Arts program at George Brown College. It appears the current prerequisite for the CA courses is you must be 19 y.o., so dunno what's up for the couple of years from March 1996 to when he would have turned 19 in October 1999.

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  22. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by crystalsleuth View Post
    WOW...quite an accomplishment!!! Especially when you are -1 years old

    CS
    Um CS ... those are the accomplishments of JR, not MTR

    If they were for MTR, at -1 y.o. he would have been learning in the "classwomb"?

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  24. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    Um CS ... those are the accomplishments of JR, not MTR

    If they were for MTR, at -1 y.o. he would have been learning in the "classwomb"?

    OOPS...missed the "JR" reference :blushingsmiley:

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  26. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipflop View Post
    http://www.johnrafferty.ca/about.php

    Here is a link about J.R. and his 3 kids
    Thanks, FF.

    It's my opinion that these are JR's children from his former marriage. All three are on Facebook and on his friends' list.

    His partner, Pam, used to use a hyphenated surname with her maiden and ex-husband's name.

    http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

    She has two children of her own: Jacob H. and Jennifer H., who are also on Facebook and included in JR's and his kids' friends' lists.

    Pam is now using her maiden name only:

    http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

    This would explain the other article that says that he and Pam have five children between them.

    http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

    While I don't believe that JR is MTR's father, I hope this helps.
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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  28. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by flipflop View Post
    http://www.johnrafferty.ca/about.php

    Here is a link about J.R. and his 3 kids
    Thanks flipflop, they looked like nice kids and true or not about their father, none of them, including him, deserve to be tied to this horrific tragedy - I will not post any further information.
    Last edited by nonfictionrocks; 09-03-2009 at 08:56 PM.

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  30. #166
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    I believe the revelence of us discussing MR and his parents is to try to find some clues as to whom MR really is.
    Several have stated on here that there is very little to discover about MR , so as there is nothing available so far about his life we start from the beginning....who are MR parents???????????
    Hopefully this will lead us to something concrete, instead of all the lies he(MR) has written about himself in facebooks, ect.

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  32. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    (Respectfully snipped and BBM)



    The only info about MTR's father came from Nurse_Sleuth:

    "I dont think his father had much to do with him ever, and to my knowledge his mom never married his father."

    MTR Discussions - Page 4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    Unless it has some bearing on his guilt or innocence, I don't see why MTR's paternity has to come up at the trial at all. Why would it? Certainly his father's presence, or lack of it, in his life could never be used as a defense. I'd be interested in how it could be used by the prosecution, but even so, I don't see why his father would have to be identified.

    IMO, it's quite possible we will never learn who MTR's biological father is and I have forgotten what its relevance is supposed to be. Can someone remind me, please?
    Post 241 is how this all started.
    I was not questioning any paternity here, as It doesn't matter to the VS case / or me one iota if the mother was married to his father or not.
    I just find it very interesting who is paying for the expensive team of Lawyers MR happened to get after he terminated the services of his past attorney.
    Also I doubt very much a person working in a factory all her life would have a Richmond Hill address.(I am still interested why MR did indeed use this address in his profile on an odd site I found. This site is there but blocked all you see is his name, age, bd, and address, which is the Richmond addy))
    The mom seems to be a hardworking, middle class lady and I am sure this was a total shock to her when she learned what her son is being accused of.
    Last edited by bleedingheart; 09-04-2009 at 11:40 AM. Reason: spelling

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  34. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleedingheart View Post
    Post 241 is how this all started.
    I was not questioning any paternity here, as It doesn't matter to the VS case / or me one iota if the mother was married to his father or not.
    I just find it very interesting who is paying for the expensive team of Lawyers MR happened to get after he terminated the services of his past attorney.
    Also I doubt very much a person working in a factory all her life would have a Richmond Hill address.(I am still interested why MR did indeed use this address in his profile on an odd site I found. This site is there but blocked all you see is his name, age, bd, and address, which is the Richmond addy))
    The mom seems to be a hardworking, middle class lady and I am sure this was a total shock to her when she learned what her son is being accused of.
    (BBM)

    If MTR's mother has been working at the same place for thirty years, Richmond Hill would be quite a commute for her. I still think it's possible that MTR was bunking for a while with one of his brothers or his grandmother during this time. I'm leaning towards "Nana".

    Also, while Richmond Hill is a remarkably affluent place, I have found that there are no large areas around Toronto that don't also have some affordable housing - either in high rises, or small, older homes. Even Forest Hill and Rosedale have some multiple-dwelling units where large houses have been broken down into flats. In 1971, Richmond Hill incorporated some rural towns that surely must contain older farmhouses and other inexpensive homes for rent or sale.

    Here is Wikipedia's info on Richmond Hill:

    http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

    It would be interesting to know who is paying for MTR's legal representation (if anyone), but I wonder if we'll ever know. Maybe some reporter will find out one day.

    MOO
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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  36. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by matou View Post
    This is just my opinion but I have a strong feeling that MR was shuffled around from city to city and town to town because he has some sort of behavioural and emotional issues. I also feel that he may have spent some time himself in juvenile detention.

    Also, did TCFC or some other friends mention that MR took the train to get around? TIA
    He seems a troubled person to me also,and just mebe he has spent time on psychiatric wards too, in hospitals for depression or similar illnessess. He has been somewhere,I would think, His lack of schooling, training, ect is very sketchy and suspicious to me. JMOO
    Last edited by bleedingheart; 09-04-2009 at 12:16 PM. Reason: adding statement- jmoo

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  38. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    (BBM)

    If MTR's mother has been working at the same place for thirty years, Richmond Hill would be quite a commute for her. I still think it's possible that MTR was bunking for a while with one of his brothers or his grandmother during this time. I'm leaning towards "Nana".

    Also, while Richmond Hill is a remarkably affluent place, I have found that there are no large areas around Toronto that don't also have some affordable housing - either in high rises, or small, older homes. Even Forest Hill and Rosedale have some multiple-dwelling units where large houses have been broken down into flats. In 1971, Richmond Hill incorporated some rural towns that surely must contain older farmhouses and other inexpensive homes for rent or sale.

    Here is Wikipedia's info on Richmond Hill:

    http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

    It would be interesting to know who is paying for MTR's legal representation (if anyone), but I wonder if we'll ever know. Maybe some reporter will find out one day.

    MOO
    Thank you AG for your article, I am not very familiar with Toronto and area, so I appreciate your information.
    Yes, I had a few pics of MR and "Nanna", (at first I thought it was his mother.) Unfortunately I lost these pics when everything was deleted from the sites that he was using.
    Would be very interesting to find more info on "Nanna" and her role in MR's life. Now I am wondering if anyone knows whos "mother" Nanna is?????
    Last edited by bleedingheart; 09-04-2009 at 12:12 PM. Reason: words added

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  40. #171
    Don't forget about Newmarket, listed in his Skydrive as a place of residence.

    Also, who are "Grandma" and "Grandpa" in the pics from his Skydrive, if "Nanna" is his "Nan"?

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  42. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbododger View Post
    Don't forget about Newmarket, listed in his Skydrive as a place of residence.

    Also, who are "Grandma" and "Grandpa" in the pics from his Skydrive, if "Nanna" is his "Nan"?

    I don't seem to have his Skydrive profile saved, but here are a couple of wild guesses about "Grandma" and "Grandpa".

    If we believe NS that there was no contact with his father, then I would doubt that they are his paternal grandparents. Could they be the paternal grandparents of his half-brothers? All brothers appear to be close in age, so it's possible that MTR grew up knowing these grandparents well. Another possibility is that "Nanna" was divorced and her husband re-married. Or ... they could be his maternal grandparents, with "Nanna" being the half-brothers' grandmother.

    Just some options to consider.
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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  44. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleedingheart View Post
    He seems a troubled person to me also,and just mebe he has spent time on psychiatric wards too, in hospitals for depression or similar illnessess. He has been somewhere,I would think, His lack of schooling, training, ect is very sketchy and suspicious to me. JMOO
    Yep, this is all possible. We do know that MTR has no criminal record as an adult.

    "Court documents show Rafferty does not have a criminal record."

    http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Vi...400/story.html

    If he had committed any crimes as a juvenile, those records would be sealed and inadmissible as evidence during his future trial. The same goes for TLM. I am not sure what's permissible once the trials are over and if they are found guilty.
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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  46. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    I don't seem to have his Skydrive profile saved, but here are a couple of wild guesses about "Grandma" and "Grandpa".

    If we believe NS that there was no contact with his father, then I would doubt that they are his paternal grandparents. Could they be the paternal grandparents of his half-brothers? All brothers appear to be close in age, so it's possible that MTR grew up knowing these grandparents well. Another possibility is that "Nanna" was divorced and her husband re-married. Or ... they could be his maternal grandparents, with "Nanna" being the half-brothers' grandmother.

    Just some options to consider.
    Anything is possible.

    Grandma and Grandpa from his skydrive pics are what I would call "elderly". They look 80 years +. That's one reason I questioned who "Nan" was, because I always thought that woman was his mother. She looks to be mid-50's in the pics, but, according to Nurse and Tager, Nan looks very,very similar to Deb. They think it's Deb's mom.

    There is one picture there that has a woman similar to "Nan" who could be his mom.

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  48. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbododger View Post
    Anything is possible.

    Grandma and Grandpa from his skydrive pics are what I would call "elderly". They look 80 years +. That's one reason I questioned who "Nan" was, because I always thought that woman was his mother. She looks to be mid-50's in the pics, but, according to Nurse and Tager, Nan looks very,very similar to Deb. They think it's Deb's mom.

    There is one picture there that has a woman similar to "Nan" who could be his mom.
    Thanks. Could you please post the link to the Skydrive profile and or the pics? I'd like to save them. TIA
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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