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Thread: MTR Discussions

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    I fail to see why either MTR or DC would lie about when and where he was taken into custody. What difference could it make?

    It's possible that at least some of the arresting officers were in plain clothes. It's also possible that there were witnesses to the arrest, but that doesn't mean those witnesses would run to the media with that info. (If I saw something like that going down, I would tell my husband, but I certainly wouldn't be calling the media about it, especially if I didn't know who the arrested person was.)

    Even if a witness recognised MTR after his pictures were released, what would the papers print a couple of days later? "Mrs. Antiquegirl saw a man surrounded by police and taken away. She thinks it may have been MTR."? Not much of a news story in itself after the initial reports of the arrests.

    MOO
    I did not imply or mean that DC lied.. she only spoke what MTR told her. He would lie because he possibly didnt want her to know where he was that day.

    As for witnesses... the city of Woodstock was eagerly awaiting an arrest in this case. As a result police activity to that proportion was reported to the media. On the news the morning following the arrests it was stated that a police presence was seen on both streets of the people involved the night before, so they were attempting to indicate where arrests may have taken place.


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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxfactor View Post
    I just read this article that I hadn't seen before. What surprised me about it is
    that it appears to say that MR's car was seen in the original video from the school when Tori was taken. I had heard somewhere that was the case and LE just didn't release that part of the tape to the public. What do you think?
    "Tori and the woman who lured her from Oliver Stephens public school appear in a surveillance video from a nearby high school at 3:32 p.m. on April 8. They are heading north on Fyfe Avenue.

    Five minutes later, the blue car is seen heading north on the same street. "

    http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News...7/9592696.html

    Thank-you, Maxfactor! I have not read this article before, this adds alot to what we know, IMO, specifically this:


    Meanwhile, sources told The Free Press the Honda Civic belonging to accused Michael Rafferty was seen in a surveillance video a few minutes after Tori and her abductor walked along Fyfe Avenue.

    Police are seeking the backseat of the car and witnesses who might have seen it after Tori’s abduction on April 8.

    Investigators haven’t said who was driving the car, but say it was involved in the abduction and have scoured it for clues.

    Police describe the car as blue with black spray paint on portions of it. In the video, the car appears to have no spray paint on it.

    Tori and the woman who lured her from Oliver Stephens public school appear in a surveillance video from a nearby high school at 3:32 p.m. on April 8. They are heading north on Fyfe Avenue.
    Five minutes later, the blue car is seen heading north on the same street.


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  5. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    I fail to see why either MTR or DC would lie about when and where he was taken into custody. What difference could it make?

    It's possible that at least some of the arresting officers were in plain clothes. It's also possible that there were witnesses to the arrest, but that doesn't mean those witnesses would run to the media with that info. (If I saw something like that going down, I would tell my husband, but I certainly wouldn't be calling the media about it, especially if I didn't know who the arrested person was.)

    Even if a witness recognised MTR after his pictures were released, what would the papers print a couple of days later? "Mrs. Antiquegirl saw a man surrounded by police and taken away. She thinks it may have been MTR."? Not much of a news story in itself after the initial reports of the arrests.

    MOO
    If MR was arrested at that gym on main st, there probably wasn't many people around. That is a key Gym, you have a key to get in and all there is is only equipment there. Also that street is not very busy where the gym is located. I went to look, as I have never heard of it before.


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  7. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbododger View Post
    Thank-you, Maxfactor! I have not read this article before, this adds alot to what we know, IMO, specifically this:


    Meanwhile, sources told The Free Press the Honda Civic belonging to accused Michael Rafferty was seen in a surveillance video a few minutes after Tori and her abductor walked along Fyfe Avenue.

    Police are seeking the backseat of the car and witnesses who might have seen it after Tori’s abduction on April 8.

    Investigators haven’t said who was driving the car, but say it was involved in the abduction and have scoured it for clues.

    Police describe the car as blue with black spray paint on portions of it. In the video, the car appears to have no spray paint on it.

    Tori and the woman who lured her from Oliver Stephens public school appear in a surveillance video from a nearby high school at 3:32 p.m. on April 8. They are heading north on Fyfe Avenue.
    Five minutes later, the blue car is seen heading north on the same street.
    I've been thinking about this article as well, thanks maxfactor. The part I don't get is "the blue car is seen heading north on the same street." If this is referring to MTR's car, did he drive around South (on Norwich?) to go North back up Fyfe again? The first part that Turbo bolded about the surveillance camera I think is in reference to the Esso video footage.


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  9. #95
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    Quality Inn

    Quote Originally Posted by bleedingheart View Post
    If MR was arrested at that gym on main st, there probably wasn't many people around. That is a key Gym, you have a key to get in and all there is is only equipment there. Also that street is not very busy where the gym is located. I went to look, as I have never heard of it before.
    I think someone posted that there is a coed Goodlife Fitness at the Quality Inn near the 401. It looks pretty isolated around there and maybe he was at that location because of the hotel and not necessary for the gym.


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  11. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny44 View Post
    Do you have a link to the star's archive for the B trial?
    Here you go...

    http://www.thestar.com/search?&dt=&s...blishDate DESC


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  13. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by nurse_sleuth View Post
    I did not imply or mean that DC lied.. she only spoke what MTR told her. He would lie because he possibly didnt want her to know where he was that day.

    As for witnesses... the city of Woodstock was eagerly awaiting an arrest in this case. As a result police activity to that proportion was reported to the media. On the news the morning following the arrests it was stated that a police presence was seen on both streets of the people involved the night before, so they were attempting to indicate where arrests may have taken place.
    From all the reports I have read, they claim that MR and TLM were arrested Tuesday night. It does not matter to me what DC says MR told her. I do not trust what MR has to say at this point in time. JMO I am going on the numerous reports that are out there. Yes reporters have been known to make errors but with so many all making the same report, I tend to believe this as a fact. MR was arrested Tuesday night.The neighbour claims to have seen tons of cops and 4 or 5 police cruisers at MR's house Tuesday night @ around 11pm. Why would "that" many police be present to notify MR's mother of his arrest? That would be ridiculous. JMO again.

    If this happened in the parking lot, outside the gym, in broad daylight, there would have been "some" witnesses to MR's arrest and would have come out in the media. I doubt very much that you would get a bunch of police and police cars at a scene and not attract any sort of attention from the public.
    Just another report claiming arrests happened Tuesday "night". There are many more out there.
    http://www.tillsonburgnews.com/Artic...aspx?e=1577560


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  15. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousJorge View Post
    From all the reports I have read, they claim that MR and TLM were arrested Tuesday night. It does not matter to me what DC says MR told her. I do not trust what MR has to say at this point in time. JMO I am going on the numerous reports that are out there. Yes reporters have been known to make errors but with so many all making the same report, I tend to believe this as a fact. MR was arrested Tuesday night.The neighbour claims to have seen tons of cops and 4 or 5 police cruisers at MR's house Tuesday night @ around 11pm. Why would "that" many police be present to notify MR's mother of his arrest? That would be ridiculous. JMO again.

    If this happened in the parking lot, outside the gym, in broad daylight, there would have been "some" witnesses to MR's arrest and would have come out in the media. I doubt very much that you would get a bunch of police and police cars at a scene and not attract any sort of attention from the public.
    Just another report claiming arrests happened Tuesday "night". There are many more out there.
    http://www.tillsonburgnews.com/Artic...aspx?e=1577560
    I too feel that his word can not be trusted, and certainly doubt a lot of what is said by him. In the case of the police being at the house that night around 11pm, I did not hear that through him, but rather his mother told me they came for her at the house at that time. She said they took her for questioning, and informed her of his arrest. From how she described what happened that night, it was like she was being treated as a potential suspect too, as they would not let her even change into clothes out of her pajamas wihout an officer present, and doors open to the bedroom, and bathroom when used. I cant understand what her motive would be to lie about this, which is why I tend to believe her story.

    I couldnt agree more that all the reports state they were arrested on Tuesday night, I had read in more than one place, (and of course I cant find the links now when I need them lol) that TLM and MTR were arrested at TLM's. I don't understand though, how she was arrested, if she was already in juvie at that time. If it did occur at her house, and she was already in police custody, I have to wonder why he would be over there at her house.


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  17. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousJorge View Post
    From all the reports I have read, they claim that MR and TLM were arrested Tuesday night. It does not matter to me what DC says MR told her. I do not trust what MR has to say at this point in time. JMO I am going on the numerous reports that are out there. Yes reporters have been known to make errors but with so many all making the same report, I tend to believe this as a fact. MR was arrested Tuesday night.The neighbour claims to have seen tons of cops and 4 or 5 police cruisers at MR's house Tuesday night @ around 11pm. Why would "that" many police be present to notify MR's mother of his arrest? That would be ridiculous. JMO again.

    If this happened in the parking lot, outside the gym, in broad daylight, there would have been "some" witnesses to MR's arrest and would have come out in the media. I doubt very much that you would get a bunch of police and police cars at a scene and not attract any sort of attention from the public.
    Just another report claiming arrests happened Tuesday "night". There are many more out there.
    http://www.tillsonburgnews.com/Artic...aspx?e=1577560
    Here is my take on the arrests, police presence, etc.

    • I think it's possible that MTR was apprehended when and where he said and taken in to the police station for further questioning. After several hours of interrogation, he was then formally arrested several hours later. Maybe it was his inability to provide an alibi, something else that he said, or LE was still waiting for the warrant to be issued that caused the delay.

    • The reason for the large police presence at his mother's house later was not so much to advise her of her son's arrest and take her in for questioning, but to have enough personnel for a thorough search of the house and to remove potential evidence. Obviously they would want to make sure that she did not destroy or remove any of this potential evidence before they could search and seize.

    • Both Bleedingheart and Matou have posted theories as to why there may not have been many witnesses to MTR's apprehension at the gym. I have posted why it's possible that the media might not consider this sufficiently interesting enough to publish and it's also possible that LE had asked them not to reveal the info.

    • Although TLM was already in jail for a different crime, she would have to be formally charged (not arrested) again for the newer charges. A warrant would be needed and she would legally have to be informed.

    • In these past few months of reading and re-reading all the media reports, it's been obvious that many outlets are copying each other's articles - some verbatim. Identical sentences and paragraphs appear over and over again in various publications. This explains why the same inconsistencies and errors can be found in different accounts. It would stand to reason that most of Sun Media's publications would print the same articles. They own:

      * Le Journal de Montréal
      * Le Journal de Québec
      * The Ottawa Sun
      * The Toronto Sun
      * The London Free Press
      * The Winnipeg Sun
      * The Calgary Sun
      * The Edmonton Sun
      * Barrie Examiner
      * Belleville Intelligencer
      * Brantford Expositor
      * Chatham Daily News
      * Cobourg Daily Star
      * Cornwall Standard-Freeholder
      * Fort McMurray Today - Alberta
      * Kingston Whig-Standard
      * Niagara Falls Review
      * North Bay Nugget
      * Orillia Packet & Times
      * Owen Sound Sun Times
      * Pembroke Daily Observer
      * Peterborough Examiner
      * Port Hope Evening Guide
      * Sarnia Observer
      * Sault Star
      * Simcoe Reformer
      * St. Catharines Standard
      * St. Thomas Times-Journal
      * Stratford Beacon Herald
      * Sudbury Star
      * Timmins Daily Press
      * The Daily Herald Tribune - Grande Prairie, Alberta
      * The Daily Graphic - Portage La Prairie, Manitoba
      * The Daily Miner and News
      * The Recorder and Times
      * Welland Tribune
      * Woodstock Sentinel Review

    Publications not owned by Sun may also just verify their stories from the one or two reporters actually on the scene and just paraphrase what they had.

    MOO
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone


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  19. #100
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    [*]The reason for the large police presence at his mother's house later was not so much to advise her of her son's arrest and take her in for questioning, but to have enough personnel for a thorough search of the house and to remove potential evidence. Obviously they would want to make sure that she did not destroy or remove any of this potential evidence before they could search and seize.

    Snipped by me.

    I was going to post almost the exact same thing about the police at MR's house, though AG you beat me to the punch! LOL, I seem to recall DC saying that both she and MR's mother were trying to get ahold of him via text messages and cell, and none of their calls were answered or texts returned, which to me means, he was already in custody and his phone was likely confiscated at that point and LE showed up later, once we was formally charged at his mother's house with a search warrant looking for evidence, etc.


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  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobodyzgirl View Post
    [*]The reason for the large police presence at his mother's house later was not so much to advise her of her son's arrest and take her in for questioning, but to have enough personnel for a thorough search of the house and to remove potential evidence. Obviously they would want to make sure that she did not destroy or remove any of this potential evidence before they could search and seize.

    Snipped by me.

    I was going to post almost the exact same thing about the police at MR's house, though AG you beat me to the punch! LOL, I seem to recall DC saying that both she and MR's mother were trying to get ahold of him via text messages and cell, and none of their calls were answered or texts returned, which to me means, he was already in custody and his phone was likely confiscated at that point and LE showed up later, once we was formally charged at his mother's house with a search warrant looking for evidence, etc.
    Very possible in my opinion.


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  23. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~greeneyedgirl~ View Post
    but this wouldn't be MTR's car, his was already black, as per the esso picture, am i mistaken on this......
    Yes, as I had posted, I think the media got confused between MTR's car in the Esso video and the blue witness car sought by LE going north on Fyfe right around the time of the abduction.

    MOO

    http://www.nationalpost.com/related/...tml?id=1562561


    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone


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  25. #103
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    Video of Witness vehicle

    I'm wondering now if the witness car story and the blue car mentioned in the LFP is the same car. LE released the video of the witness vehicle on May 4th and the LFP story was released on May 27th. In the print article: "Five minutes later, the blue car is seen heading north on the same street" (Fyfe Avenue). Wouldn't LFP retract the story if they were completely wrong on this?

    Here is the link to the video of Constable Maitland appealing to the owner of the vehicle to come forward as a potential important witness.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYisYGew3s&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - OCPS release video of witness vehicle[/ame]

    Here is the link to the LFP article: http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News...7/9592696.html


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  27. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    Here is my take on the arrests, police presence, etc.

    • I think it's possible that MTR was apprehended when and where he said and taken in to the police station for further questioning. After several hours of interrogation, he was then formally arrested several hours later. Maybe it was his inability to provide an alibi, something else that he said, or LE was still waiting for the warrant to be issued that caused the delay.
    BBM: LE did not arrest him out of thin air. Especially when they had already interviewed him at least twice.

    • The reason for the large police presence at his mother's house later was not so much to advise her of her son's arrest and take her in for questioning, but to have enough personnel for a thorough search of the house and to remove potential evidence. Obviously they would want to make sure that she did not destroy or remove any of this potential evidence before they could search and seize.
    BBM: I would say that the large police presence was very much to advise her of her son's arrest in addition to doing an intense sweep of the house and removing anything and everything of potential interest. Not letting her out of their sight would very much be protocol, IMO, to ensure she did nothing to assist the accused, that would be standard procedure, I would think. There would be ZERO trust of anyone closely affiliated with the accused, and automatic suspicion, until proven otherwise, such as was the case with the family of the victim.
    • Both Bleedingheart and Matou have posted theories as to why there may not have been many witnesses to MTR's apprehension at the gym. I have posted why it's possible that the media might not consider this sufficiently interesting enough to publish and it's also possible that LE had asked them not to reveal the info.
    BBM: The media would have found this as newsbreaking as finding little Tori, IMO. An arrest after an intense manhunt for 6 weeks, you bet the media would have covered it if they had been tipped off. Which they were not, or we would have known sooner of the arrests.snipped for space
    MOO
    BBM above in blue, is my take on the events.
    Last edited by Turbododger; 08-28-2009 at 01:00 PM.


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  29. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbododger View Post
    The media would have found this as newsbreaking as finding little Tori, IMO. An arrest after an intense manhunt for 6 weeks, you bet the media would have covered it if they had been tipped off. Which they were not, or we would have known sooner of the arrests.
    (Respectfully snipped)

    We do not disagree on much of the previous theories, but I'd like to address this one.

    I agree that the media was obviously not tipped off by LE before MTR was apprehended, or it would have been big news. They were told of the arrests at some time before the next morning when the media broke this very important story.

    My point was that if bystanders saw MTR being taken into custody, they would not have known who he was or what he was arrested for. Not much to report to the press, and not much for them to print - YET. When they did print the story, the media was not advised where the arrest took place, or it would have been included in the reports.

    IF there were witnesses to the apprehension, they wouldn't have known the identity of the suspect until after the media released the arrest information and pictures the next day. Then, they would have had to consider the location of the arrest newsworthy enough to call the media. But then what would they print? "A witness has come forward to say that MTR's arrest took place in (or outside) the Such-and-Such gym"? Then what? Everything else they knew had already been printed. It doesn't seem like sufficient information to print all by itself, nor might they consider it all that important where it took place. Then again, they may have asked this info from LE when they were originally told of the arrests and were told it was confidential.

    MOO
    Last edited by antiquegirl; 08-28-2009 at 01:25 PM. Reason: addition
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone


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