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  1. #1
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    The Trouble with RDI

    Either the Ramseys did it or they didn't, but RDI just doesn't stack up. Not for me. I could yet be proven wrong, but I am not optimistic.

    At the outset of this investigation, BPD were focused almost exclusively on RDI. The police, the media and the general public had already made up their minds: the Ramseys did it. LE were so sure of RDI that evidene that might have exonerated the Ramseys before now was either contaminated, ignored, or given little or no importance.

    RDI protagonists don't generally inspire me with confidene. Steve Thomas is not the unbiased observer I expect of a professional investigator. He seems to have made it his mission not to find the truth but to find the Ramseys guilty. He jumps to conclusions and latches on to almost anything that might point to the Ramseys' complicity. This includes the dubious notion that the letters S.T.B.C. read backwards were lifted from the open page of a Bible in the Ransey home. Such far-fetched claims lead me to question his judgement in general

    No, RDI may appeal to popular public sentiment, but it doesn't work for me.

    But feel free to prove me wrong.

  2. #2
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    Of course, you're right

    The BPD was embarrassed earlyon when media reports made them look like keystone cops. It wasn't the Ramsey's fault that Ellers told the police John Ramsey was an important and rich businessman in the community and to treat them with kids glove. THEN when the Ramseys hired attorneys and other experts to help on the case, I believe Ellers was pissed, because he wanted the BPD to be the heroes. On top of that you have the animosity between the BPD and the DA's office. It was all about egos.

    The case the BPD presented to the DA's office to arrest the Ramseys is a joke and all circumstantial against the Ramseys.

    The cable media and pundits went crazy---it's too bad Lin Wood wasn't on board earlier. It's unconscionable what the tabloids, Geraldo, Cyril Wecht, Nancy Grace, Fox News (to name a few) got away with. For them it was good entertainment, and $$$$.

    There is absolutely no evidence that either of the Ramseys were involved in this crime, but there is evidence it was an unknown intruder.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
    Either the Ramseys did it or they didn't, but RDI just doesn't stack up. Not for me. I could yet be proven wrong, but I am not optimistic.

    At the outset of this investigation, BPD were focused almost exclusively on RDI. The police, the media and the general public had already made up their minds: the Ramseys did it. LE were so sure of RDI that evidence that might have exonerated the Ramseys before now was either contaminated, ignored, or given little or no importance.
    Myths accepted as truth, James50. That's a big reason why I decided to write the book.

    RDI protagonists don't generally inspire me with confidence. Steve Thomas is not the unbiased observer I expect of a professional investigator. He seems to have made it his mission not to find the truth but to find the Ramseys guilty.
    The Rs have certainly tried to portray him as such. After all, it worked so well against Fuhrman, didn't it? When all else fails, play to people's prejudices against cops.

    He jumps to conclusions and latches on to almost anything that might point to the Ramseys' complicity. This includes the dubious notion that the letters S.T.B.C. read backwards were lifted from the open page of a Bible in the Ramsey home. Such far-fetched claims lead me to question his judgement in general.
    How is it far-fetched, may I ask?

    No, RDI may appeal to popular public sentiment, but it doesn't work for me.
    I'd like to know what this "popular public sentiment" business is.

    But feel free to prove me wrong.
    How much time have you got?
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
    The case the BPD presented to the DA's office to arrest the Ramseys is a joke and all circumstantial against the Ramseys.
    Circumstantial cases are successfully made in this country EVERY DAY. If the DA's office in Boulder had been like prosecutors just about any other place in America, they might know how to put one together.

    The cable media and pundits went crazy---it's too bad Lin Wood wasn't on board earlier.
    If I had my way, the only board he'd be on is the one they strap you to before they pour the water down your nose.

    It's unconscionable what the tabloids, Geraldo, Cyril Wecht, Nancy Grace, Fox News (to name a few) got away with.
    Compared to what JB's killer got away with, I can live with it. I just wish the Rs had pursued her killer as fervently as they pursued the ones you mention.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  5. #5
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    To me IDI as trouble for me let see the R's lied until proven wrong about Burke being awake with 911 call...And the duct tape wasn't brought in from the intruder no residue on JB's mouth...And really now, the R's a couple days after the murder went on CNN now who was using the media...
    Knowledge of time is precious.Wisdom of truth is more precious than time..Opinions I write are mine..

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
    It's unconscionable what the tabloids, Geraldo, Cyril Wecht, Nancy Grace, Fox News (to name a few) got away with. For them it was good entertainment, and $$$$.
    That is correct.

    Imagining what JBR, if alive today, would think.

    Closeup photos taken of her with red lipstick in the context of a child beauty pageant contest, where other children do the same thing (just saw it on TV the other day, a mom applying lipstick to her young daughter).


    Later, these photos placed in close proximity to a photo of JMK? her dad? on the cover of a tabloid with matching insinuating headlines? Then placed in supermarkets for sale? The implication is of an adult-child sexual scenario involving specific people when nobody knows it ever even happened.

    They just know what sells and it doesn't matter if it involves kids.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    Closeup photos taken of her with red lipstick in the context of a child beauty pageant contest, where other children do the same thing (just saw it on TV the other day, a mom applying lipstick to her young daughter). Later, these photos placed in close proximity to a photo of JMK? her dad? on the cover of a tabloid with matching insinuating headlines? Then placed in supermarkets for sale? The implication is of an adult-child sexual scenario involving specific people when nobody knows it ever even happened.
    It's not a big leap of imagination, is it?

    They just know what sells and it doesn't matter if it involves kids.
    If you're making an argument about journalistic ethics, I'm with you 100%.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
    THEN when the Ramseys hired attorneys and other experts to help on the case, I believe Ellers was pissed, because he wanted the BPD to be the heroes. On top of that you have the animosity between the BPD and the DA's office. It was all about egos.
    If I were John Ramsey and had nothing to do with this crime, I would want to have my brain examined if I hadn't hired attorneys in such a finger-wagging atmosphere. But right away RDI-ers jumped on the "See! He hired an attorney, so he must be guilty." bandwagon. Wonder why they hired attorneys?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
    The cable media and pundits went crazy---it's too bad Lin Wood wasn't on board earlier. It's unconscionable what the tabloids, Geraldo, Cyril Wecht, Nancy Grace, Fox News (to name a few) got away with. For them it was good entertainment, and $$$$.
    Yep, any camp that has Nancy Grace and Fox News in it is a good reason to discount about 95% of what they spout as pure bias (and I'm being generous).

    There is absolutely no evidence that either of the Ramseys were involved in this crime, but there is evidence it was an unknown intruder.
    None except a lot of emoting about "how the Ramseys look so guilty" etc."

    People seem to have no idea how real criminals work. This was the work of a professional. No one else could have pulled this off and still be walking free more than 1 year after the fact, let alone 20.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
    People seem to have no idea how real criminals work.
    Whoever committed this crime certainly didn't!
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  10. #10
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    No myths, Superdave, I have made up my own mind based on my knowledge of the case itself, not the media circus that went with it.

    Why are there unexplained brown fibers in the paint tray and ligature?
    Why were green fibers in her hair paid scant attention?
    How is it that the black fibers of John's shirt turn out to be wool and not cotton (like those of John's shirt)? and it goes on.

    There are no certainties about this case, except that the Rs were prematurely held under an umbrella of suspicion. Wonder why they were finally exonerated?

    I'd like to know what this "popular public sentiment" business is.
    Come on, Superdave, surely you're not that naive! ;-) Somebody had to be found guilty to appease public furore over the case, and the Rs were the most obvious and easy targets.

    How is it far-fetched, may I ask?
    Because S.B.T.C. could stand for almost anything.

    For example, it could stand for "Shall Be The Call" or "Shall Be The Cry" That fits with Victory! Since the word Victory with an exclamation mark after it like that is indeed a call or a cry, much like a battle-cry.

    My point here is that just because a line on a page of an open Bible displays a sentence with words whose initials are S.B.T.C. backwards is neither here no there, when S.B.T.C. could be an acronym for an encyclopedia full of different words and combinations thereof.
    Last edited by James50; 08-15-2009 at 08:49 PM.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Whoever committed this crime certainly didn't!
    It was a professional crime made to look like the parents could have done it. Not the other way around.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
    No myths, Superdave, I have made up my own mind based on my knowledge of the case itself, not the media circus that went with it.
    Same here, friend. Don't forget who you're talking to. I used to be an IDI, same as you. For the first 5-1/2 years of this thing, I was a lot like you. Probably even more dedicated.

    Why are there unexplained brown fibers in the paint tray and ligature?
    There aren't any fibers in the ligature besides PR's, that I know of.

    Why were green fibers in her hair paid scant attention?
    Last I knew, because it was known where they came from.

    How is it that the black fibers of John's shirt turn out to be wool and not cotton (like those of John's shirt)?
    Where did you hear that?

    There are no certainties about this case, except that the Rs were prematurely held under an umbrella of suspicion.
    Maybe so.

    Wonder why they were finally exonerated?
    I KNOW why. It's no secret that the previous DA was in their corner from Day One. That's not a conspiracy theory, either. Several people who were there have said so.

    Come on, Superdave, surely you're not that naive! ;-)
    Ha! NOBODY can accuse ME of being naive!

    Somebody had to be found guilty to appease public furore over the case, and the Rs were the most obvious and easy targets.
    I used to think that, for what it's worth.

    Because S.B.T.C. could stand for almost anything.

    For example, it could stand for "Shall Be The Call" or "Shall Be The Cry" That fits with Victory! Since the word Victory with an exclamation mark after it like that is indeed a call or a cry, much like a battle-cry.

    My point here is that just because a line on a page of an open Bible displays the letters S.B.T.C. backwards is neither here no there, when S.B.T.C. could be an acronym for an encyclopedia full of different words and combinations thereof.
    There's merit to what you say, BUT you're not seeing the big picture. (I didn't think I'd have to give you the "big picture" speech THIS soon!) We know the Rs were religious, or at least made that pretense. Using a biblical acrostic fits with that.

    It was a professional crime made to look like the parents could have done it. Not the other way around.
    It's PRECISELY the other way around, James. That's not just my opinion, either, not on your life.

    Look, at the beginning, you said that we should feel free to prove you wrong. That implies open-mindedness to me. Was I mistaken?
    Last edited by SuperDave; 08-15-2009 at 09:07 PM.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  13. #13
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    For the first 5-1/2 years of this thing, I was a lot like you. Probably even more dedicated.
    Just maybe you were right the first time. If something told you they didn't do it, why are you now so sure that your original hunch was wrong when there is no smoking gun? What worries me about RDI-think is that it seems to be fueled in large part by anger toward the Rs, and a lot of that was encouraged y the media.

    "Brown cotton fibers on JonBenet's body, the paintbrush, the duct tape and on the ligature were not sourced and do not match anything in the Ramsey home. (SMF P 181; PSMF P 181.) (Carnes 2003:20).

    JR's shirt was made of wool fibers but I understand the fibers found were cotton.

    I can assure you, SD, that I am open-minded. But to borrow one of your own favorite expressions, I'm not so open-minded that my brains spill out.

    The Ramseys religious? You mean like the way they displayed their daughter in beauty pageants?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
    If something told you they didn't do it, why are you now so sure that your original hunch was wrong when there is no smoking gun?
    It's a long story, James. Very involved, too. Suffice to say for now that it didn't happen all at once.

    As for a smoking gun, one of the best things that ever happened to me was when I realized that the great majority of cases don't HAVE smoking guns (One estimate put it as low as 10%).

    What worries me about RDI-think is that it seems to be fueled in large part by anger toward the Rs, and a lot of that was encouraged by the media.
    Maybe so. I don't deny that there is anger. But it comes from an honest place. That much I know.

    "Brown cotton fibers on JonBenet's body, the paintbrush, the duct tape and on the ligature were not sourced and do not match anything in the Ramsey home. (SMF P 181; PSMF P 181.) (Carnes 2003:20).
    Oh, so THAT's your source. I should have figured.

    JR's shirt was made of wool fibers but I understand the fibers found were cotton.
    Ain't the way I heard it, pilgrim.

    I can assure you, SD, that I am open-minded. But to borrow one of your own favorite expressions, I'm not so open-minded that my brains spill out.
    Well, all right!

    The Ramseys religious? You mean like the way they displayed their daughter in beauty pageants?
    You've got me interested. Go on.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  15. #15
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    Oh, and Patsy's jackets had red, black and gray fibers, but it only shed red ones?

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