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Thread: OK - Carol Daniels, 61, found murdered inside her church, 8/24/09

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by thulsalive View Post
    rskybow1-thanks for filling in the details. I was wondering if there is still the gas station across from the step n fetch and if it was open too. I know that liquor store wasn't open cause it was sunday.

    Some more questions here-

    Is it easy to park behind the church and turn around back out the alley?

    Are there dogs in yards on that block?

    Can you slip between the houses on that block or are there fences around some of the yards?

    Thanks!
    The gas station 4B is still there, I'm pretty sure they're closed on Sunday, will check that out for sure this Sunday. It's not directly across the street from Step though, more diagonal. I seen three cars parked in the alley of the church a couple of days ago, it must be fairly easy to turn around and get out. I will check that out for sure tomorrow and the other questions you asked also.

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  3. #77
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    Welcome to WS rskybow1!!! Thanks for your insight into the area and Richardson.

    The latest:

    "Earlier, a woman who lives two doors down from the church said she noticed someone had been living in her cellar. Investigators carried bags of evidence out of her home after doing a search."

    http://www.koco.com/news/20736334/detail.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by colette View Post
    Welcome to WS rskybow1!!! Thanks for your insight into the area and Richardson.
    The latest:
    "Earlier, a woman who lives two doors down from the church said she noticed someone had been living in her cellar. Investigators carried bags of evidence out of her home after doing a search."
    http://www.koco.com/news/20736334/detail.html
    Oh MY!! Her cellar is that her basement? Scary!!

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  7. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by gxm View Post
    I'm confused. Is Richardson the drifter from Florida? If so, then has he been in town long enough for the victim to become, as he calls her, "my pastor"?

    His story sounds awful fishy to me. Not sure if it's because he's hiding something or he just likes the attention of being a "witness."
    After what I've seen so far and it isn't much I tend to believe the last part,he just wants some attention.He's not a credible witness though,he changes his story and I think LE doesn't take him too seriously either.

    But I guess it will be very easy to check if he was indeed drinking beer that day where/when he claimed.Someone must have seen him there.What I still find bizarre is that he saw something like that and didn't tell anybody about it and I don't mean LE,he has an explanation for that,but he didn't tell a friend or someone else who was drinking there?I would have told or alerted SOMEONE.

    Maybe things will be clearer when we know more.
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  8. #80
    Thanks for the heads up on this tragic case, Ruflossn. Upon reading that Ms. Daniels was not only murdered within a church but posed as well, my first thought was, some sort of ritualistic crime or racially motivated hate crime. While not impossible, a few things indicate this is unlikely. Why?

    Imo, the posing was more of an afterthought. A red herring, if you may. As for the crime itself? From the autopsy notes, you're looking at serious overkill (i.e., more force than is necessary to complete a kill). What is notably striking and most anomalous about this case is not the presence of solvent, rather the theory that the solvent was used to destroy evidence. This latter bit seems contradictory. Or otherwise put, the view that the perp murdered her in an obvious fit of rage and then had a moment of clarity to use solvent to remove evidence? I don't think so.

    I would proffer that the more likely scenario is that the perp attempted to set her on fire after murdering her. Hence, the hair burning. And he would have completed what he set out to do but was "frightened" away when the Wilsons came knocking at 11:40 a.m. (remember, his "window of opportunity" was just under two hours). So, he ends up hastily posing her and runs out the back... most likely leaving blood evidence on the door as he leaves.

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  10. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by thulsalive View Post
    rskybow1-thanks for filling in the details. I was wondering if there is still the gas station across from the step n fetch and if it was open too. I know that liquor store wasn't open cause it was sunday.

    Some more questions here-

    Is it easy to park behind the church and turn around back out the alley?

    Are there dogs in yards on that block?

    Can you slip between the houses on that block or are there fences around some of the yards?

    Thanks!
    Ok, just came by there and checked it out, it's very easy to park behind the church and turn around back out the alley, there's a lot of room behind the church.
    I didn't see any dogs at all.
    You could slip between the chruch and the house next to it, and between the first house next to church and the second house, the second house and last house on that block are both fenced. The second house is the one where they searched the cellar.
    I would also like to say someone asked if Richardson was at the carwash or something along those lines. He has stayed under that carwash for a very long time, Everyone knows he's there.
    I would also like to say personally, I think the street people are very important here, they see a lot more than anyone else. You can't just blow them off like what they say means nothing.
    On that note, if you look back at the pics of the area on page 2, the second picture where it says STORE in orange, you can see the empty space behind the church, also East Market street runs to East and West, on the south side of the store, Notice halfway down that street , east of the Store, on the south side you'll see two groups of trees, there is like a concrete slab almost like a bench, just off the road right there, there are always street people sitting there, has been for years, i stopped there today and looked, if anyone was sitting there, they had a perfect view of the backyard of the church.

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  12. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by tiredblondy View Post
    Oh MY!! Her cellar is that her basement? Scary!!
    Could be, but people also have cellars which are detached from the home and used only in the case of tornadoes. They are cement caves with only a door and a vent pipe visible in most cases. Usually, they are in the backyard not far from the house in order to gain access quickly.
    Last edited by SeriouslySearching; 09-05-2009 at 03:02 PM.
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  14. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by rskybow1 View Post
    Ok, just came by there and checked it out, it's very easy to park behind the church and turn around back out the alley, there's a lot of room behind the church.
    I didn't see any dogs at all.
    You could slip between the chruch and the house next to it, and between the first house next to church and the second house, the second house and last house on that block are both fenced. The second house is the one where they searched the cellar.
    I would also like to say someone asked if Richardson was at the carwash or something along those lines. He has stayed under that carwash for a very long time, Everyone knows he's there.
    I would also like to say personally, I think the street people are very important here, they see a lot more than anyone else. You can't just blow them off like what they say means nothing.
    On that note, if you look back at the pics of the area on page 2, the second picture where it says STORE in orange, you can see the empty space behind the church, also East Market street runs to East and West, on the south side of the store, Notice halfway down that street , east of the Store, on the south side you'll see two groups of trees, there is like a concrete slab almost like a bench, just off the road right there, there are always street people sitting there, has been for years, i stopped there today and looked, if anyone was sitting there, they had a perfect view of the backyard of the church.
    I've been wondering the same thing about the 'street people'. They see all sort of things going on around there and they usually know the latest gossip about everyone.

    I also was wondering about the jail. Are people still jailed in there and can they see out that side of the building. I'm not sure what happens with the trustees these days, but I remember they used to hang around outside the building and they would see a lot going on to.

    I remember going to the jail to bail a relative out once and the inmates already knew who was getting out because they looked out the building all the time to see who was pulling into the lot or walking up.

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  16. #84
    My question is about other people coming and going to/from other churches that Sunday morning. Did they see anything? I would expect someone to notice a strange vehicle, a man with blood on him, or someone speeding out of the area.

    The man had to be covered in blood. No way around that one. Did he clean himself up before leaving the church? This part I do believe from Richardson. He should have been literally dripping after the many wounds and the positioning of her body.

    I wonder if Richardson's story didn't change from bald head to ski mask because he can identify the person and now he could become an easy target? Was he advised by LE to change his story in the media? It could happen.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

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    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

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  18. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by thulsalive View Post
    I've been wondering the same thing about the 'street people'. They see all sort of things going on around there and they usually know the latest gossip about everyone.

    I also was wondering about the jail. Are people still jailed in there and can they see out that side of the building. I'm not sure what happens with the trustees these days, but I remember they used to hang around outside the building and they would see a lot going on to.

    I remember going to the jail to bail a relative out once and the inmates already knew who was getting out because they looked out the building all the time to see who was pulling into the lot or walking up.
    I don't know if they're kept upstairs, and there are 4 windows on the north side of the police department but they're all covered with looks like sheet metal on the outside of the building. But yeah, at least during day there are trustess usually out and about.
    Also, keep in mind the back door of the church isn't really at the absolute back of the church, it's almost to the end of it but it's on the south side of the building, opening into the alley

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  20. #86
    Radio logs detail day of Anadarko pastor’s slaying

    The following timeline of the 14 hours after Daniels’ car was seen arriving at the church was compiled through interviews, incident reports and police radio logs released Friday.

    Aug. 23, about 10 a.m.

    Surveillance cameras at the Step N Fetch gas station capture Daniels’ car as it pulls in at the Christ Holy Sanctified Church.

    About 11:40 a.m.

    Retired Bishop Silkey Wilson Jr. and his wife, Julia, of Spencer arrive at the church to visit the 61-year-old pastor from Oklahoma City.

    11:51: First entry from police

    radio logs

    Julia Wilson arrives at the police department to ask that police check on Daniels. Wilson tells police Daniels’ car was at the church but the door was locked and she wasn’t answering.

    12:01 p.m.

    Officer Ashley Burrus arrives at the church and speaks with the Wilsons.

    12:04 p.m.

    Burrus enters through the side door and sees the slain pastor’s body. She calls for backup and notes the killer is not in custody.

    12:05 to 1 p.m.

    The ambulance is called and Burrus, Sgt. James Howard and Caddo County sheriff’s deputy Doug Butler check the building and secure the crime scene.

    2:21 p.m.


    Anadarko police dispatchers take their first media call asking for confirmation of the homicide.

    About 3 p.m.

    Daniels’ mother, Charles Etta Dunlap, is informed of her daughter’s death by women outside her home. Bishop Wilson had called the women and asked them to contact Dunlap.

    3:49 p.m.

    Daniels’ son, Gaylon Daniels of Oklahoma City, calls police asking for information about his mother.

    4:13 p.m.

    Management at the Step N Fetch gas station call police to say they can have surveillance tapes ready within the hour.

    4:30 p.m.

    Gaylon Daniels, his grandmother and his wife, Yalinda, are stopped by a state trooper near Chickasha as they speed toward the church.

    4:30 p.m.

    A man identifying himself as Alvin Daniels calls the police department to try to get information.

    5:44 p.m.

    Step N Fetch surveillance videos are ready for police.

    6:56 p.m.

    A woman who lives in the 300 block of W Broadway calls to tell police dispatchers she heard "the preacher lady ... got killed and was put on the altar with no clothes on.”

    11:34 p.m.

    The woman calls police back and asks to speak with an officer to try to get more information.

    A few nights ago, she said, she called police to come check her home after she heard a knock on her door at 4:15 a.m.

    http://www.newsok.com/radio-logs-det...ad_story_titleBBM and snipped in places.
    "WE SEEK FOR THE TRUTH. WE SEEK JUSTICE.
    THE COURTS REQUIRE IT. THE VICTIMS CRY FOR IT
    AND GOD DEMANDS IT!"

    A quote spray painted on the wall by search
    and rescue workers, Team 5, at the OKC Bombing site 4-19-1995.



    What I post are my opinions only.

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  22. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching View Post
    My question is about other people coming and going to/from other churches that Sunday morning. Did they see anything? I would expect someone to notice a strange vehicle, a man with blood on him, or someone speeding out of the area.

    The man had to be covered in blood. No way around that one. Did he clean himself up before leaving the church? This part I do believe from Richardson. He should have been literally dripping after the many wounds and the positioning of her body.

    I wonder if Richardson's story didn't change from bald head to ski mask because he can identify the person and now he could become an easy target? Was he advised by LE to change his story in the media? It could happen.
    The timing would be wrong for people coming and going to church. Sunday schoolers would have been too early , and people going to 11oclock services, probably too late, he was most likely already inside the church by then.

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  24. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruflossn View Post
    The person I think deserves a closer look is the man referenced in the article, M. Hinton, Jr. His mother died in December, his mother was a very close friend of Ms. Daniels, his mother was a founding member of the church Mr. Hinton has a past conviction of a violent, sexual crime. There are some very strange twists that involve Mr. Hinton and this crime. Possibly just a strange coincidence but, at this point, who knows?
    Good catch and I whole heartedly agree. This individual makes a great deal of sense as a POI. Not only does he know the victim, but he has a history of violence, and the precipitating stressor may very well be the death of his mother. Add to this, Ms. Daniel's age, the disrobing, along with the clustering of stab wounds in the throat and chest area, the extremely personal nature of a knife as a murder weapon, the attempted torching, and the obvious overkill? Imo, this together, strongly suggests the perp has some serious "mother issues" as opposed to issues against gender, race, and/or religion in general. Glad they're looking at him.

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  26. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
    Thanks for the heads up on this tragic case, Ruflossn. Upon reading that Ms. Daniels was not only murdered within a church but posed as well, my first thought was, some sort of ritualistic crime or racially motivated hate crime. While not impossible, a few things indicate this is unlikely. Why?

    Imo, the posing was more of an afterthought. A red herring, if you may. As for the crime itself? From the autopsy notes, you're looking at serious overkill (i.e., more force than is necessary to complete a kill). What is notably striking and most anomalous about this case is not the presence of solvent, rather the theory that the solvent was used to destroy evidence. This latter bit seems contradictory. Or otherwise put, the view that the perp murdered her in an obvious fit of rage and then had a moment of clarity to use solvent to remove evidence? I don't think so.
    I would proffer that the more likely scenario is that the perp attempted to set her on fire after murdering her. Hence, the hair burning. And he would have completed what he set out to do but was "frightened" away when the Wilsons came knocking at 11:40 a.m. (remember, his "window of opportunity" was just under two hours). So, he ends up hastily posing her and runs out the back... most likely leaving blood evidence on the door as he leaves.

    Shadowraiths,
    Thanks for taking the time to give your thoughts on this case.

    If your above scenario is accurate, when did the perp use the solvent?
    Before attempting to burn the victim / hair or afterward?
    Are you surmising, the solvent used was to set the fire, the fire did not start (successfully) so therefore the solvent was found at the crime scene as a
    2ndary agent. Meaning - the solvent was there not to destroy evidence but, simply as an acclerant that did not work?

    Good grief my post seems 'wordy'. Sorry.............

    Lastly, could you please explain the type os individual that engages in overkill. I have always known it to be: 1) a young person, 2) someone in a rage, 3) someone on drugs. Any other thoughts?

    Ruflossn


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  28. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
    Ruflossn, Good catch and I whole heartedly agree. This individual makes a great deal of sense as a POI. Not only does he know the victim, but he has a history of violence, and the precipitating stressor may very well be the death of his mother. Add to this, Ms. Daniel's age, the disrobing, along with the clustering of stab wounds in the throat and chest area, the extremely personal nature of a knife as a murder weapon, the attempted torching, and the obvious overkill? Imo, this together, strongly suggests the perp has some serious "mother issues" as opposed to issues against gender, race, and/or religion in general. Glad they're looking at him.

    I just returned from Oklahoma. I was able to find out more info on Mr. Hinton.
    This is very interesting. His mother was not only a founding member of the church where Ms. Daniels was a pastor but, at one time she also a Pastor at the church. Ms. Hinton and Ms. Daniels were very close friends. Ms. Hinton also raised one of her sons children. (a daughter) Up until the time of Ms. Hintons death, the daughter and the grandmother were very close. The daughter had very little / no relationship with her father.

    Mr. Hinton has a history of violent crime and a history of drug abuse.

    I would like to know if Ms. Hinton had a will. In the will did she leave things of value to the church or to Ms. Daniels?

    Of course, Mr. Hinton may have a very strong, believable alibi. I will be curious to see how this works out.

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  30. #91
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    Once again, LE in OK hides behind sealed warrants.

    http://newsok.com/search-warrant-sea...ad_story_title

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  32. #92
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    I have a question. What is the reason or reasons that an LE would seal the warrants? I really would appreciate any answer. I am curious because that is unsual although not unheard of when the prosecution wants to frustrate the defense. Thank you in advance to anyone with an answer.

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  34. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by crystalgenie View Post
    I have a question. What is the reason or reasons that an LE would seal the warrants? I really would appreciate any answer. I am curious because that is unsual although not unheard of when the prosecution wants to frustrate the defense. Thank you in advance to anyone with an answer.
    There are a number of reasons, the most frequently cited being that the release of the information would hinder an "ongoing criminal investigation." That's a sort of "umbrella" term for shielding info from the media just because LE can--and media in OK probably aren't going to challenge the sealing under the First Amendment right of access, so the public's right to know is once again abused. Warrants can also be sealed to protect the person(s) under investigation who are not yet criminal defendants--though this also hinders their right to challenge the warrant--or to protect informants, among other reasons.

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  36. #94
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    From what this article says they want to see the MYspace page of a band:

    Thursday afternoon sources told NewsChannel 4 that a warrant was issued to search the church, and to gain access to a MySpace account that belongs to a rock band that was in town during the murder.

    http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-...,6159833.story

    From the comments below the article:
    I'm in the band that they are looking at. We are called Napalm Reign. The fact that they are looking at us is totally ridiculous.
    ....

    It is a metal band from Anadarko, OK, the town where the murder took place....Sounds a little far-fetched to think this band has anything to do with the murder, or even fans of the band.

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  38. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by colette View Post
    From what this article says they want to see the MYspace page of a band:

    Thursday afternoon sources told NewsChannel 4 that a warrant was issued to search the church, and to gain access to a MySpace account that belongs to a rock band that was in town during the murder.

    http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-...,6159833.story

    From the comments below the article:
    I'm in the band that they are looking at. We are called Napalm Reign. The fact that they are looking at us is totally ridiculous.
    ....

    It is a metal band from Anadarko, OK, the town where the murder took place....Sounds a little far-fetched to think this band has anything to do with the murder, or even fans of the band.
    Just throwing something out here on the Forum, pure speculation...

    What if some of these recent mass murders are related, and part of a Satanic ritual murder cult? I'm thinking of this case, the one in Beason, Illinlois, and especially the killings in Farmville, VA. The suspect there was closely involved with people who are professed Satanists.

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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    There are a number of reasons, the most frequently cited being that the release of the information would hinder an "ongoing criminal investigation." That's a sort of "umbrella" term for shielding info from the media just because LE can--and media in OK probably aren't going to challenge the sealing under the First Amendment right of access, so the public's right to know is once again abused. Warrants can also be sealed to protect the person(s) under investigation who are not yet criminal defendants--though this also hinders their right to challenge the warrant--or to protect informants, among other reasons.
    I wanted to say thank-you, instead of just the hitting button. I had been looking online, mostly the definition was attorneys arguing amongst eachother over "to seal or not to seal". So thank-you very much.

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  42. #97
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    Napalm Reign

    Quote Originally Posted by crystalgenie View Post
    I wanted to say thank-you, instead of just the hitting button. I had been looking online, mostly the definition was attorneys arguing amongst eachother over "to seal or not to seal". So thank-you very much.
    You're quite welcome! Always eager to serve.

    Now, as for the band Napalm Reign--the one with the Myspace account--it's only natural that LE would investigate them, seeing as how one comment from a fan and/or friend this year reads, "I want to burn the city, mothers and fathers, and their little children. Beatings, shootings, suicides, and those who care about nothing but themselves. But they will drown. They shall drown in their own blood. I want to burn them all."

    Also, they do list, under "influences," the bands Cannibal Corpse and Lamb of God side by side. LE is investigating, of course, a gruesome murder with religious overtones--a murder in a church involving a staged crime scene: the "crucifix position" of the body--with elements of blood and fire present into the bargain.

    So of course they would be wise to check out an Anadarko-based band's web page like the above. And of course it is not "totally ridiculous" to do so--think of the egg on the faces of LE if they hadn't have done, and if something on the Myspace account might lead them to a solution. Playing in a metal band doesn't constitute a connection to the murder, of course; being a fan of the band and posting outrageous comments might be another story.
    Last edited by wfgodot; 09-27-2009 at 05:17 PM.

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  44. #98
    In light of Psycho Sam's murders of 4 in VA and a MySpace Connection, where was Psycho Sam at the time of Weleetka's Taylor Placker & Skyla Whitacker murders, and Carol Daniel's murders?

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    Some Oklahoma homicide cases linger, but aren’t cold

    NewsOK Oct. 4, 2009

    The clock continues to tick on state investigators trying to solve the homicide of the Rev. Carol Daniels, whose nude and mutilated body was found Aug. 23 inside her small Anadarko church . Authorities have not announced any persons of interest or identified any suspects.

    Oklahomans have seen such a scenario unfold repeatedly in recent years with unsolved homicide cases in towns such as Poteau, Cordell, Buffalo Valley and, perhaps most notably, Weleetka.

    Read more: http://newsok.com/some-oklahoma-homi...#ixzz0TcFvj9VE
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    I have wondered about some of the killings across the US and any conection.. Nothinig to say there is but i have wondered

    If this the bands myspace it lists there home as the same town as the killiing

    http://www.myspace.com/napalmrain666

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