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Thread: OK - Carol Daniels, 61, found murdered inside her church, 8/24/09

  1. #126
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    NewsOn6's OK Impact team scorches OSBI for its failure in this and many other cases:
    OSBI's Track Record Investigated After Criticism From Lawmaker
    By Jennifer Loren, The Oklahoma Impact Team

    OKLAHOMA CITY -- The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation claims it brings exceptional investigative service to the state of Oklahoma. But the agency's track record is being questioned by a state legislator. His questions put the agency on the defensive.

    The list of Oklahoma's unsolved homicides is lengthy. Pastor Carol Daniels was murdered in an Anadarko church. Taylor Paschal Placker and Skyla Whitaker were gunned down in Weleetka. The Denneys were shot to death in their Locust Grove home. Poteau bar owner Joe Neff was found dead near Pocola. Sam Sanders was killed in Fairland, his wife badly beaten. Three young girl scouts were murdered at camp in 1977 and the list goes on. All of those cases were investigated by the OSBI. All of them are unsolved
    ---

    much, much more about OSBI and its claims and failures, at
    http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12379331

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  3. #127
    [1] Just read of a new book called CLERGY KILLERS
    Guidance for Pastors and Congregations Under Attack
    Logos Productions Inc. by Lloyd Redige http://home.comcast.net/~glrediger/b...y_killers.html
    [2] Does anyone know for sure if OSBI has ruled out any connection to the man who was undergoing sex change and who murdered Texas Unitarian Pastor Karen Lee Johnson who was advising him, then killed himself? Ex-Marine, violent.

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  5. #128
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    Completed autopsy report released in Anadarko pastor's death
    (and guess what? the State of Oklahoma botched the job)

    Description of wounds changed in completed autopsy report on Anadarko pastor, who was slain and nearly decapitated
    ---
    "Choi made one noticeable change from Trant’s preliminary autopsy report: The cause of death.

    "Choi changed 'multiple sharp force injuries' to 'multiple incised wounds.' Daniels suffered cuts all over her body, including an apparent attempt by her killer to leave her decapitated. The autopsy showed 'gaping incised wounds across the larynx, extending lateral and toward the back of the neck.'"
    ---
    Unbelievable - well, if it were in some other state, it might be hard to fathom. Not here. And the rest of the story:

    http://newsok.com/completed-autopsy-...rticle/3461176

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  7. #129
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    That's pretty sad....but when it's the state of Oklahoma, one tends to just shrug it off and say, "oh well.....that's pretty much what I expected......"

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  9. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie in Spokane View Post
    That's pretty sad....but when it's the state of Oklahoma, one tends to just shrug it off and say, "oh well.....that's pretty much what I expected......"
    Yep, exactly. And the problem is, I've lived here for a long enough time that I'm starting to feel smug because I can see it all coming. And I take that a step farther and kick myself for having thought, just maybe, when it happened, that this crime might be a solvable one, and would get solved. Because I should have known it wasn't. They weren't going to put themselves out any because of this crime, for reasons that are all too clear. To live in Oklahoma is to flirt every day with the notion of becoming a cynic.

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  11. #131
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    Does LE seem to crack local everyday crimes in that state? Please don't take this wrong - I am not trying to smear Oklahoma LE. I am just wondering if you do hear of it in the local newspapers, etc.

    I never had a clue how sad the situation was until I joined here about one year ago. I can think of numerous crimes that I have followed since that time from Ok - Rev. Carol Daniels, the Waleetka girls, Jody Riley (sp?), Joe Neff, the Jamison family disappearance, and on and on. And that's just off the top of my head, as I know there are many more but the names escape me right now.

    I guess what I'm really wondering is, does OK LE maintain the semblance of a presence throughout the state? It's really sad to read through these threads because these are/were living, breathing human beings who deserve to have someone in LE work for them. I just don't see it happening. From the outside looking in, it looks like LE puts on a good front at first, wrings their hands after a week or two and then stands behind the "ongoing investigation" BS until people quit inquiring.

    I also think that the GBI needs a total shake-up from top to bottom. The director Langley (I believe) has been there way too long and don't even get me started on that Jessica Brown (I believe that is her name) spokesperson. Her reply to Rev. Daniels' mother regarding "if she wants to talk to us she has our number" (paraphrasing) was absolutely unforgiveable.

    As I stated in the Joe Neff thread today (today is the one-year anniversary of his unsolved murder), whatever money the perpetrator(s) stole from Joe is long since gone. They surely have moved on to other victims. I'm just afraid that we are reading about those victims on these threads here. Sadly, it seems like we're the only ones working on these cases because it certainly doesn't seem like LE has made any progress.

    (In fact Joe's daughter has NEVER even been interviewed by LE to this day, if you can believe that.) No wonder progress hasn't been made. Lord only knows what they ARE doing.

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  13. #132
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    Hoorah! A bit of good news here at last: Legislature has killed an attempt by OK LE to hide its mistakes behind a cloak of secrecy - under the guise of "protecting the investigation"
    State bill to keep autopsy details secret derailed

    OKLAHOMA CITY — A bill that would allow the state medical examiner’s office to keep secret the details of how a homicide victim was killed will not be revived this session, the House author said Monday.

    After the bill prompted several questions on the House floor, Rep. Leslie Osborn withdrew the bill from consideration and said it won’t be heard again this session.
    ---
    Osborn said the bill was requested by Caddo County District Attorney Bret Burns after the high-profile slaying last year of the Rev. Carol Daniels inside an Anadarko church. An autopsy report showed that the 61-year-old pastor suffered numerous gashes to her neck and throat, as well as stab wounds to her chest, back, stomach and hands. The case remains unsolved.

    “I don’t think the press should be plastering autopsy reports on the front page of the paper during a pending investigation,” Burns said. “Those details should not be released to the public when you’re trying to catch the killer.”

    But the bill drew opposition from the Oklahoma Press Association, which argued that the public has a right to know details about how a person died and that the medical examiner’s office should remain independent from prosecutors and law enforcement.
    ---
    http://enidnews.com/state/x334296883...ecret-derailed

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  15. #133
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    Anadarko memorial for murdered pastor

    ANADARKO - Demolition crews tore down the church where a pastor was murdered last year. The body of Carol Daniels, 61, was discovered inside Christ Holy Sanctified Church last August. Church leaders decided to demolish the old church to make way for a memorial in honor of Pastor Daniels.

    "If you want your name to be remembered for the things that you do, you have to leave it in the hearts of people and she left us a lot of good memories," said Pastor Ezra Randle, Christ Holy Sanctified Church of America.

    Pastor Randle says the church was just recently turned back over to them by investigators. Since the murder, the church remained closed. Pastor Randle believes what happened there caused a lot of pain and that the best thing to do was to turn the site into a memorial.

    "If you just forget about it and walk away kicking the dirt, saying oh well she was a good woman, I don't think that would be fair," said Pastor Randle.
    ---

    more, with video, at
    http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-...,3340577.story

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  17. #134
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    In doing some research on another case, I came upon a cold murder case I'd never heard of. I thought I'd post it here as there are several similarities to Pastor Daniels's horrible murder. It involves the murder and "staging of the body" of Arlis Perry, the young wife of a Stanford University student in 1974 in the college chapel. Please be aware that there are many triggers here:

    http://truthontatelabianca.com/topic...nts-detective/

    I did an archive search and found Arlis's name in only a single WS post about a possible connection with the Manson murders and the Son of Sam. A couple of websites also list the recent murder of Annie Le at Yale as possibly being connected. Very very frightening.

    While I understand, on one level, the reasoning behind demolishing the church where Pastor Daniels was killed, I'm also very concerned that the entire story will never be told and some evidence destroyed forever.

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  19. #135
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    Yeah, I've looked into the Arlis Perry case a few times due to references to it in various accounts of the Manson murders and possible connections country-wide. That's a really strange case, for sure.

    One of the incidental pieces of information I came across is that her husband, Bruce Perry, who was also a Stanford Univ student at the time is a high-level psychologist (not sure of exact title, though), and that he counseled the children that survived from David Koresh's Waco group.

    I probably have one or more details wrong there--it's been a while since I looked into all this. The gist of the story is right, though.
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  21. #136
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    Anniversary of Anadarko pastor's slaying comes with few leads

    In the past year, there have been fewer than 100 possible leads in the case, said Stan Florence, Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation inspector.

    "We've had some good leads, but they have not come in like you'd expect in a high-profile case,” Florence said.
    [Warning: fairly graphic details in this article]
    http://newsok.com/pastors-slaying-st...rticle/3487848

    One year later and they are no closer to solving the case.

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  23. #137
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    Tapu--You got the story right. I wonder if the death of his young wife was the impetus behind Dr. Perry studying child psychiatry. I've heard Dr. Perry speak twice on Reactive Attachment Disorder (a disorder affecting some children who have experienced early trauma and an ongoing challenge in adoption). I had no idea as to his brush with horror.

    He also worked closely as a consultant for the victims of Hurricane Katrina and the YFZ Ranch and sits on the Board of the Cultic Studies Review.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_D._Perry

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultic_Studies_Review[/ame]

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  25. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    In doing some research on another case, I came upon a cold murder case I'd never heard of. I thought I'd post it here as there are several similarities to Pastor Daniels's horrible murder. It involves the murder and "staging of the body" of Arlis Perry, the young wife of a Stanford University student in 1974 in the college chapel. Please be aware that there are many triggers here:

    http://truthontatelabianca.com/topic...nts-detective/

    I did an archive search and found Arlis's name in only a single WS post about a possible connection with the Manson murders and the Son of Sam. A couple of websites also list the recent murder of Annie Le at Yale as possibly being connected. Very very frightening.

    While I understand, on one level, the reasoning behind demolishing the church where Pastor Daniels was killed, I'm also very concerned that the entire story will never be told and some evidence destroyed forever.
    Lots of similarities with the murder of Karen Lee Johnson by Renata Antoinette Monet case too ...

    http://www.reporternews.com/news/201...wo-found-dead/

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    Even chaos is well patterned.

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  27. #139
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    Another case of possible interest is the murder of Sister Margaret Ann Pahl in Toledo, Ohio in 1980. The very priest who said mass at her funeral, Father Gerald Robinson, was arrested years later, in 2003 and charged with her murder. Another woman had come forward to accuse him and several other priests of abuse when she was a child, which caused LE to take a closer look at him. The staging of the body, once again, is very odd.

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/n...gy2/index.html (note: several pages)


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Robinson_(priest)

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  29. #140
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    Oh, yeah, I remember reading about that one, too. I guess that there's probably not a tangible connection between all these, but there's definitely a thematic one. I wonder what kind of mind it takes to fixate on killing in a church and ritualistically placing the body. It all seems so... specific, and seemingly unrelated to the actual victim perhaps. Whoa.
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  31. #141
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    Even though the murder of Sister Pahl happened thirty years ago, her murderer, Gerald Robinson, was just convicted recently. I found two books about the murder:

    "Sin, Shame and Secrets: The Murder of a Nun, the Conviction of a Priest, and Cover-up in the Catholic Church" by David Yonke

    and

    "Father, Forgive Me: A True Story of a Priest, a Nun, and Brutal Murder" by John Glatt



    And yes, tapu, there is the question as to whom the intended "victim" is.

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  33. #142
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    OK seeks profiles in two unsolved cases
    ---
    Clay Simmonds, an FBI spokesman in Oklahoma City, said a profile also was ordered in the case involving the death of the Rev. Carol Daniels, 61, of Oklahoma City. She was found dead Aug. 23, 2009, in the Christ Holy Sanctified Church in Anadarko.
    ---
    http://newsok.com/osbi-asks-for-prof...rticle/3513632

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  35. #143
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    I can't believe they haven't asked for these profiles before now...I thought they would have been requested on these cases long ago...

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  37. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    Another case of possible interest is the murder of Sister Margaret Ann Pahl in Toledo, Ohio in 1980. The very priest who said mass at her funeral, Father Gerald Robinson, was arrested years later, in 2003 and charged with her murder. Another woman had come forward to accuse him and several other priests of abuse when she was a child, which caused LE to take a closer look at him. The staging of the body, once again, is very odd.

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/n...gy2/index.html (note: several pages)


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Robinson_(priest)
    The case of Sister Margaret Ann Pahl had an episode on Biography channel not long ago under the program title 'Notorious'. I just looked at the program guide to see if it repeats and as far as I can tell it doesn't repeat again thru 11/27 anyway. In the T.V. episode it was explained that the Sister had objected to, and was very hurt and cried over, the fact that Robinson had shortened the Good Friday services thus taking away from God. She had voiced her objection to his decision loud and clear. Not long after she was found dead in the chapel of which not too many people had access too. Even at the time, they explained, he was the only one who had been unaccounted for. He said he had been in the shower at that time. The secretary heard a noise but didn't investigate she said.

    The letter opener, which belonged to Robinson, had been wiped clean which was odd because you'd expect it to have fingerprints on it. Years later, they discovered, and they show you this, how the shape of the blade fit exactly into the wounds on the Sister (stopped at the bone and blade fit perfectly like a puzzle). Why they didn't see that originally, I have no idea. The pattern on the alter cloth when unfolded (blood) stain showed the shape of an inverted cross. They reported that they believe Robinson to be a follower of Satan. They found the complete (I don't know what it's called) writtings/doctrine of Satan in Robinson's home desk.

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  39. #145
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    Some interesting speculation here:

    http://thetruthisinsideyou.blogspot....l-daniels.html

    excerpt:
    "I will say one more thing, a year ago I contacted the police in Oklahoma regarding this matter. I never received a response and provided them with my personal information."

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  41. #146
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    Thanks Joe, that blogspoter is right on. I totally agree with his speculation. Someone who lived close, he had to clean up quick from all the blood. He had to know to use the back door due to video of front door. He knew no one would hear screams at that time. And the idea the murder was made to look like an antichrist slaying to throw suspicion away from himself is very good. It was a premediated killing, he brought the weapon and solution to destroy DNA evidence. I really can not believe they have not solved this murder by now.

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  43. #147
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    It was an interesting-enough article, but I did find myself disagreeing at times.

    I'm not sure if it was ever decided (and announced) if the solvent was already at the church, or if it was brought by the killer. I know there was some question about it.

    Also, because LE took the back door, it does not instantly follow that there was writing on it. Doors are removed regularly to find fingerprints.

    While it would be handy for the killer to have lived close by, anyone who has lived for a time in a small town will know its quiet areas and its streets, so it doesn't necessarily signify someone in the next block; in the writer's second paragraph he talks about the physical smallness of Anadarko.

    (Finally, and o/t, but BTK lived and killed in Wichita, not Kansas City.)

    But I think he's correct in assuming that the killer was someone living in Anadarko, and one who likely planned the crime.

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  45. #148
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    Ruflossn is offline "Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.", ~ George Bernard Shaw ~
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    Hello All ~
    I disagree with a lot of what this blogger has to say. We do not know if the offender brought the cleaning supplies. It is my opinion he used the cleaning supplies that he found on the premises. This offender is also not in the "organized" category. He would be in the "Mixed" category. Lastly, this blogger assumes Ms. Daniels was not sexually assaulted. I disagree. When ever an offender mutilates the breast it is considered to be a sexual offense. (At least in most cases) I would bet that Ms. Daniels was sexually assaulted and that LE did not release to the public. I profiled this case for a class. If ya'll want me to post it, let me know and I will.

    Ruflossn

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  47. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruflossn View Post
    Hello All ~
    I disagree with a lot of what this blogger has to say. We do not know if the offender brought the cleaning supplies. It is my opinion he used the cleaning supplies that he found on the premises. This offender is also not in the "organized" category. He would be in the "Mixed" category. Lastly, this blogger assumes Ms. Daniels was not sexually assaulted. I disagree. When ever an offender mutilates the breast it is considered to be a sexual offense. (At least in most cases) I would bet that Ms. Daniels was sexually assaulted and that LE did not release to the public. I profiled this case for a class. If ya'll want me to post it, let me know and I will.

    Ruflossn
    Yes! Please post!

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  49. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    Yes! Please post!
    Profile: Carol Daniels

    VICTIMOLOGY
    Without having access to the official victimology reports, the information regarding the victim will not be exact and will be comprised of information gathered from the news media and quotes from the family members via the media.

    The victim is Carol Daniels. She was a 61 yo, divorced, African-American female who worked a regular job and was also an ordained minister. From 2004 until her death in Aug. 2009, Ms. Daniels would drive 65 miles, one way, from her home in Oklahoma City to Anadarko, Oklahoma. While in Anadarko, Ms. Daniels would spend her time at the Christ Holy Sanctified Church. There was rarely a congregation to hear her preach. Yet, Ms. Daniels continued to make the weekly trek all because she was committed to God and due to that commitment, she wanted to offer any services she had to those who might be in need. The friends and family members who knew her describe her as; generous, sweet, friendly, quiet demeanor, not flashy, witty, a woman with a great sense of humor, dedicated to her position as a Pastor, and a woman of God. The lifestyle of Ms. Daniels would put her low risk to becoming a victim of such a horrific crime.

    CRIME SCENE ANALYSIS –
    Without having access to the professional crime scene photos the information regarding the crime scene will not be exact and will be comprised of information gathered from the news media. The information regarding the physical condition of Ms. Daniels has been garnered from the publicly released autopsy results.

    The crime occurred in a small, somewhat run down church building. The church was located in an area of Anandarko, OK that was ½ mile from a ‘pretty high crime area’, per Jessica Brown, OSBI Spokesperson. The area located ½ mile from the crime scene was noted as an area troubled by drugs, including crack cocaine. The church is located near an alley where men were known to congregate and drink. While it is important to note the church was on the perimeter of a crime ridden area, it is also important to note it was located, ½ block from the City Police Department and 2 blocks from the Sheriffs Department.

    Veteran law enforcement officers have described this crime scene as, “spooky, horrific, and one of the worst they have ever seen”. Ms. Daniels body was found behind the church alter, nude, laying in a crucified position. What has not been released is whether her nude and mutilated body was found face up or face down. While finding a nude body, lying in a crucified position would be considered troubling to most long term law enforcement officers, something else must have occurred for them to describe the scene as ‘horrific’. I believe not only was Ms. Daniels found nude in the crucified position, but she had also been the victim of a sexual assault. She was most likely raped with some sort of an instrument. (Possibly an ornamental cross).

    The victim was attacked with some sort of ‘sharp instrument’, perhaps a knife. According to the autopsy notes, Ms. Daniels sustained such significant injuries that she was almost beheaded. The majority of the physical trauma occurred in the neck and chest area. Some wounds were noted to be post-mortem. The autopsy notes show a large gash on Ms. Daniels back. I believe this was the first area of injury. The offender attacked Ms. Daniels from behind. There were defensive injuries on her hands which indicate, she did put up a struggle and fought for her life. After Ms. Daniels was initially attacked, the offender toppled her to the ground and began the assault on the chest and neck area. In such a frenzy, he attacked with such viciousness, that Ms. Daniels was almost beheaded. Eventually he removed her clothing and set her hair on fire. In some instances, the clothing is removed for ease of the crime, or sometimes it is removed and taken as a ‘trophy’. In this instance, I do not believe it was taken as a trophy. I believe the clothing was taken to remove evidence. The offender might have kept a piece of clothing (perhaps the cassock) but to remove all the clothing is an indication of proactive measures to evade detection. Setting the hair on fire, was done to destroy evidence. It is my opinion this offender set Ms. Daniels hair on fire in the hopes that it would ignite, burn the body, and burn down the church building. Again, this indicates proactive measures in destroying evidence. This offender sprayed a dissolving chemical around the body of Ms. Daniels. The offender did this to destroy the physical evidence and he also hoped this might act as a accelerant in setting the fire.

    OFFENDER CHARACTERISTICS-
    When evaluating an offenders characteristics, one must ask –
    1) What did the offender bring to the crime scene to help in the commission of the crime?
    2) What did the offender use from the area of the crime scene to help in the commission of the crime?
    3) What did the offender take when they left the crime scene?

    The above questions will be difficult to answer due to the fact this crime remains an open case and many of the official documents have not been released to the public.

    -This offender will be male of an African American or Native American ethnicity.
    - He will be in his mid 20’s to late 30’s.
    - He will have a criminal past / record.
    - He will have known Ms. Daniels or at least known of her. She was not a random victim. She was targeted. Targeted because she was female and a minister.
    - This offender is not a serial killer. He is someone who felt that Ms. Daniels had ‘wronged him’ or ‘did an injustice to him’. His only thought about Ms. Daniels was to prove he was superior to her.
    - He will be local to the area. If he is not presently living in the area, he has lived there previous to the murder of Ms. Daniels.
    - Prior to the murder, he ‘scoped out’ the church. Prior to her murder, he may have visited Ms. Daniels at the church.
    - He will have completed high school or will have obtained a GED.
    - He will drive an older model car or truck.
    - He will have a job that would be considered ‘blue collar’ employment.
    - He would be considered an individual that is a risk taker. (His crime occurred on a Sunday morning, within a 2 hour time table. The two hour time table was during the hours the church was officially open. He took a risk that no one would interrupt his crime).
    - He will be narcissistic.
    - His economic status will be lower class to middle lower class.
    - This offender will have followed the media coverage of this case.
    - He will have discussed this case, in detail, with those around him.
    - Not long before this murder, the offender will have suffered some sort of stress. Possibly job related, or within an intimate relationship. Whatever the stress, the offender will attach blame to Ms. Daniels.

    ORGANIZED / DISORGANIZED OFFENDER STATUS

    This offender displays characteristics of both an organized offender as well as on disorganized offender.

    Arguments for an organized offender would be; he prepared for the crime. This was not a crime of opportunity. He deliberately sought out Ms. Daniels. He brought a chemical agent to the crime scene, brought a fire starting agent to the crime scene, removed the victims clothing to stymie the investigation, removed the sharp instrument from the crime scene. Other than removing the victim from the crime scene, this offender did everything possible to remove or destroy physical evidence from the scene of the crime.

    It could be argued this offender displayed one extremely important characteristic of a disorganized offender. This characteristic is the fact that Ms. Daniels was attacked, killed and left in one area. It does not appear this offender attempted to abduct Ms. Daniels. (As is common amongst organized offenders). I believe it was because sexually assaulting and murdering Ms. Daniels in the church was part of this offenders fantasy.

    If pressed to answer whether this offender would fall into the organized or disorganized category, I would say, ‘organized’.

    RECOMMENDATIONS-

    -Review video tape of all areas near the church. Prior to this murder, the offender has been in this area. Review all video that might show the offender driving by the church.
    - Interview attendants and review video tape at all Pike Pass stations. This offender has travelled to and from Anadarko. Someone might recognize a person that was agitated before or after this crime occurred. I would begin looking at tape from Saturday (the day before the murder) to Sunday evening.
    - Review all criminal records that have an individual arrested for domestic violence, or criminal assault within Anadarko and Oklahoma City. Start the search with men of African American or Native American descent.
    - Discuss with the high school Principal, Counselor, Teachers any student from 2004 to the date of Ms. Daniels death that might have discussed a boyfriend that was abusive.

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