View Poll Results: Are the Ramseys involved or not?

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  • The Ramseys are somehow involved in the crime and/or cover-up

    811 74.88%
  • The Ramseys are not involved at all in the crime or cover-up

    272 25.12%
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  1. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    You're wasting your time, Indigo...
    LOL. It's okay...for the new posters who may not know where the info originally came from.


  2. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo View Post
    LOL. It's okay...for the new posters who may not know where the info originally came from.
    Works for me!
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


  3. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo View Post
    (bold mine)


    The truth about JonBenet's chronic abuse didn't come from the armchair. It came from the lead detective and a panel of pediatric experts in this case.

    NOTE: The following contains graphic descriptions which may offend some posters.

    <snipped>

    In mid-September, a panel of pediatric experts from around the country reached one of the major conclusions of the investigation--that JonBenet had suffered vaginal trauma prior to the day she was killed.

    There were no dissenting opinions among them on this issue, and they firmly rejected any possibility that the trauma to the hymen and chronic vaginal inflammation were caused by urination issues or masturbation. We gathered affidavits stating in clear language that there were injuries "consistent with prior trauma and sexual abuse"..."Past violation of the vagina"...In other words, the doctors were saying it happened before..."

    http://books.google.com/books?id=daO...perts+jonbenet

    page 253 of JonBenet--Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas, Don A. Davis

    What does this prove exactly? Even if JB was being sexually abused, is that automatic proof that it was someone in her own family? Hardly. The Ramsey's hired plenty of people to work around their house for instance. Gardners and such. Not to mention their social network. And I'm sorry, but please don't quote Steve Thomas' book as a source. That's about as biased and one-sided as you can get.


  4. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post

    Here's a KNOWN fact: JB was found completely dressed. Her injuriy was not immediately visible. Conversely, Sarah Cherry, Danielle Van Dam and Samantha Runnion were left only partially clothed. The ravages of their attackers were clear to all.

    Here another KNOWN fact: JB was found inside her home. None of those others were. They were dumped out in the elements like bags of garbage.

    Here's a third KNOWN fact: when a kid is killed, 11 times out of 12, the parent(s) did it.

    We KNOW that JBR was first seen by LE dressed in long johns, pajamas, and she was wrapped in a blanket. We KNOW the cord was visible, still tight around her neck. We KNOW she was wearing a necklace.

    We KNOW that JBR was left in the basement of her own house, and not in plain view.
    Last edited by TopGunner; 02-24-2009 at 06:51 PM. Reason: Quit baiting...I'm counting!


  5. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    We KNOW that JBR was first seen by LE dressed in long johns, pajamas, and she was wrapped in a blanket. We KNOW the cord was visible, still tight around her neck. We KNOW she was wearing a necklace.

    We KNOW that JBR was left in the basement of her own house, and not in plain view.

    How about the third known fact? It is usually the parents.


  6. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by weasel View Post
    What does this prove exactly? Even if JB was being sexually abused, is that automatic proof that it was someone in her own family? Hardly. The Ramsey's hired plenty of people to work around their house for instance. Gardners and such. Not to mention their social network. And I'm sorry, but please don't quote Steve Thomas' book as a source. That's about as biased and one-sided as you can get.
    Exactly! Which is why any parent would have been extremely distressed at this horrendous news and want to get to the bottom of it. Who wouldn't want to rip that gardener, handyman, or Rotorooter guy to shreds. Not the Ramseys. Didn't even blink an eye.

    One thing I'm confused about...Don't quote Steve Thomas' book? Did I type an extra "b" by mistake to get here? LOL.

    Seriously, if all of those experts had been misquoted by Steve Thomas, they would have had his head on a platter for ruining their presitigious careers. To date, I'm not aware they've caused any fuss at all for being quoted.

    Here's an independent source which supports that
    Dr. Richard Krugman and Dr. Andrew Sirotnak believe JonBenet was abused.



    JonBenet's Legacy - Protect our Children
    By Dr. Richard Krugman and Dr. Andrew Sirotnak


    <snipped>
    Clearly, her death has increased our awareness of child homicides. Just as the death of Matthew Eappen at the hands of his English nanny raised the awareness of Shaken Baby Syndrome, so JonBenet Ramsey's death increased the periodic attention paid to fatal child abuse to new heights.

    But what has this awareness ultimately done to prevent other children from dying?
    For the first time, some of us began to question our belief system about child abuse. With the death of JonBenet Ramsey, America was forced to think about child abuse in a new way. We saw the death of a child in an affluent neighborhood, with wealthy and powerful parents, reinforcing what Dr. C. Henry Kempe of the Kempe Children's Center taught us decades ago: No family, rich or poor, is immune from this problem.

    http://web.uccs.edu/ur/mediawatch/dec2001/denverpost12-23-01.htm



  7. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingBreade View Post
    How about the third known fact? It is usually the parents.
    I'm referring to facts that pertain to this case. I tend not to compare JBR to other child murders because...

    When I think of comparing JBR to other child murders, I then remember what a famous FBI profiler said: "I mean, its totally bizarre. I've never, never in my 35 year career, seen anything like this."


  8. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by weasel View Post
    What does this prove exactly? Even if JB was being sexually abused, is that automatic proof that it was someone in her own family? Hardly.
    Pardon my butting in, but I've been saying exactly that for a while now. Let me go on record here. Just because I believe that JB was being abused, it does not automatically follow that it was someone in her own family. Speaking purely for myself, there are other factors that lead me to believe it was, but from a technnical standpoint, I can't talk against you.

    The Ramsey's hired plenty of people to work around their house for instance. Gardners and such. Not to mention their social network.
    Keep going. You interest me, weasel.

    And I'm sorry, but please don't quote Steve Thomas' book as a source. That's about as biased and one-sided as you can get.
    You really don't want me to respond to that one.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


  9. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    We KNOW that JBR was first seen by LE dressed in long johns, pajamas, and she was wrapped in a blanket. We KNOW the cord was visible, still tight around her neck. We KNOW she was wearing a necklace.

    We KNOW that JBR was left in the basement of her own house, and not in plain view.
    Yes, yes.

    I tend not to compare JBR to other child murders because...
    Then you're smarter than Lin Wood. I'll give you that.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


  10. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo View Post
    Exactly! Which is why any parent would have been extremely distressed at this horrendous news and want to get to the bottom of it. Who wouldn't want to rip that gardener, handyman, or Rotorooter guy to shreds. Not the Ramseys. Didn't even blink an eye.
    Darn, you beat me to it.

    One thing I'm confused about...Don't quote Steve Thomas' book? Did I type an extra "b" by mistake to get here? LOL.
    Damn, I thought I'd bust a gut!

    Seriously, if all of those experts had been misquoted by Steve Thomas, they would have had his head on a platter for ruining their presitigious careers. To date, I'm not aware they've caused any fuss at all for being quoted.
    Well, there was one, but he did enough damage to his career on his own thanks to this case!
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


  11. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post

    We KNOW JBR had a deep furrow around her neck. We KNOW JBR had a skull fracture. We KNOW somebody risked handwriting the ransom note and practice notes. We KNOW that JBR was sexually violated the night she was murdered. We KNOW there was unknown male DNA found in three (3) places on two (2) articles of clothing she was wearing at the time she was murdered. This is stuff WE KNOW.

    We also know the paintbrush was broken at both ends, and the broken off end piece with the bristles was found in the tote. We know the 2nd ligature had a double loop slip knot at one end and a fixed loop at the other. We know the 2nd ligature came from the same roll as the garrote ligature.

    We know that the largest mark on JBR besides the cord furrow is the hemorrhage on her neck, at the cord furrow.

    We know that JBR was first seen by LE dressed in long johns, pajamas, and she was wrapped in a blanket. We KNOW the cord was visible, still tight around her neck. We KNOW she was wearing a necklace.

    We know that JBR was left in the basement of her own house, and not in plain view.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    We DON'T KNOW if she was abused prior to that night, whether her sexual violation was pre or post mortem, if it was staged or real, what the purpose for it was, what caused the skull fracture, where the cord and tape came from, who owns the DNA, who wrote the note, who murdered JBR, whether they lived in the house, or even if they lived in the U.S. We DON'T KNOW any of this stuff. This is all opinion.

    We also DON'T KNOW if the 2nd ligature was tightened on JBR, or where the other broken off end piece of the paintbrush is.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Do we know the violation was pre or post mortem? DeeDee posted that the violation was pre mortem.


  12. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    Do we know the violation was pre or post mortem? DeeDee posted that the violation was pre mortem.
    Hard to say. The inflammation points to pre-mortem, but as we've seen from the autopsy report, it had been there a while. Plus, "acute inflammatory inflitrate" was not found. That means white blood cells for you regular people. Which means either she was dead, or was killed very quickly after being violated.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


  13. #568
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    We KNOW JBR had a deep furrow around her neck. We KNOW JBR had a skull fracture. We KNOW somebody risked handwriting the ransom note and practice notes. We KNOW that JBR was sexually violated the night she was murdered. We KNOW there was unknown male DNA found in three (3) places on two (2) articles of clothing she was wearing at the time she was murdered. This is stuff WE KNOW.

    We also know the paintbrush was broken at both ends, and the broken off end piece with the bristles was found in the tote. We know the 2nd ligature had a double loop slip knot at one end and a fixed loop at the other. We know the 2nd ligature came from the same roll as the garrote ligature.

    We know that the largest mark on JBR besides the cord furrow is the hemorrhage on her neck, at the cord furrow.

    We know that JBR was first seen by LE dressed in long johns and pajamas. We KNOW the cord was visible, still tight around her neck. We KNOW she was wearing a necklace.

    We know that JBR was left in the basement of her own house, and not in plain view.

    We know that a blanket and a piece of black duct tape were found in the basement.

    We know that JBR's longjohns were put back on AFTER she was violated.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    We are told by a witness that JBR was last seen alive in her bed the night before

    We are told by a witness that JBR was found in the basement wrapped in a blanket, and had tape over her mouth.

    We are told by a witness that the ransom note was found on the back spiral staircase.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    We DON'T KNOW if she was abused prior to that night, whether her sexual violation was pre or post mortem, if it was staged or real, what the purpose for it was, what caused the skull fracture, where the cord and tape came from, who owns the DNA, who wrote the note, who murdered JBR, whether they lived in the house, or even if they lived in the U.S. We DON'T KNOW any of this stuff. This is all opinion.

    We also DON'T KNOW if the 2nd ligature was tightened on JBR, or where the other broken off end piece of the paintbrush is.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------


  14. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo View Post
    Exactly! Which is why any parent would have been extremely distressed at this horrendous news and want to get to the bottom of it. Who wouldn't want to rip that gardener, handyman, or Rotorooter guy to shreds. Not the Ramseys. Didn't even blink an eye.

    One thing I'm confused about...Don't quote Steve Thomas' book? Did I type an extra "b" by mistake to get here? LOL.

    Seriously, if all of those experts had been misquoted by Steve Thomas, they would have had his head on a platter for ruining their presitigious careers. To date, I'm not aware they've caused any fuss at all for being quoted.

    Here's an independent source which supports that
    Dr. Richard Krugman and Dr. Andrew Sirotnak believe JonBenet was abused.



    JonBenet's Legacy - Protect our Children
    By Dr. Richard Krugman and Dr. Andrew Sirotnak


    <snipped>
    Clearly, her death has increased our awareness of child homicides. Just as the death of Matthew Eappen at the hands of his English nanny raised the awareness of Shaken Baby Syndrome, so JonBenet Ramsey's death increased the periodic attention paid to fatal child abuse to new heights.

    But what has this awareness ultimately done to prevent other children from dying?
    For the first time, some of us began to question our belief system about child abuse. With the death of JonBenet Ramsey, America was forced to think about child abuse in a new way. We saw the death of a child in an affluent neighborhood, with wealthy and powerful parents, reinforcing what Dr. C. Henry Kempe of the Kempe Children's Center taught us decades ago: No family, rich or poor, is immune from this problem.

    http://web.uccs.edu/ur/mediawatch/dec2001/denverpost12-23-01.htm
    Hi Indingo. Ty for posting that info.
    http://web.uccs.edu/ur/mediawatch/de...st12-23-01.htm

    Yes. JonBenet did leave a legacy.


  15. #570
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    Hi Hotyh ....

    We DON'T KNOW if she was abused prior to that night .... - Hotyh

    yet "the injuries are symptomatic of child abuse".

    wouldn't that be 'the given'/ the known?

    http://www.blackburn.gov.uk/server.p...onWebDoc.26505


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