View Poll Results: Are the Ramseys involved or not?

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  • The Ramseys are somehow involved in the crime and/or cover-up

    742 73.83%
  • The Ramseys are not involved at all in the crime or cover-up

    263 26.17%
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Thread: Are the Ramseys involved or not?

  1. #1051
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    Im going to put my 2 cents in to this to:

    I believe that PR killed her daughter. I believe that JBR made her mad because she wet her bed and with having to get up so early the next am, she snapped and hit her, knocked her over or maybe even down the stairs and she died. I believe that JR helped her cover it up. I believe that PR wrote that RN. The DNA evidence in JBs underwear didn't match anyone in the house (BTW, did they have any pets?) Does anyone know if LE has put the DNA evidence into CODIS? IMO, they need to do that every year. IF and I say that as a BIG IF, there was an intruder, a person that does this once will do it again and almost certainly get caught. I think that maybe BR knows what happened, we may have to wait until JR is dead until he speaks?

    That's all my opinion. Thankx guys!

  2. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tessa2009 View Post
    Im going to put my 2 cents in to this to:

    I believe that PR killed her daughter. I believe that JBR made her mad because she wet her bed and with having to get up so early the next am, she snapped and hit her, knocked her over or maybe even down the stairs and she died. I believe that JR helped her cover it up. I believe that PR wrote that RN. The DNA evidence in JBs underwear didn't match anyone in the house (BTW, did they have any pets?) Does anyone know if LE has put the DNA evidence into CODIS? IMO, they need to do that every year. IF and I say that as a BIG IF, there was an intruder, a person that does this once will do it again and almost certainly get caught. I think that maybe BR knows what happened, we may have to wait until JR is dead until he speaks?

    That's all my opinion. Thankx guys!
    At the time, the DNA was deemed too incomplete (not enough markers) to enter into CODIS. I believe they eventually got enough markers in a sample to do so.
    JB had a little Bichon dog, Jaques. He was not in the home that night, he was across the street at the neighbors (The Barnhills) who often watched the dog for the Rs when they were not home. The Rs were leaving the day after Christmas so the dog was already there.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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  4. #1053
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    At the time, the DNA was deemed too incomplete (not enough markers) to enter into CODIS. I believe they eventually got enough markers in a sample to do so.
    JB had a little Bichon dog, Jaques. He was not in the home that night, he was across the street at the neighbors (The Barnhills) who often watched the dog for the Rs when they were not home. The Rs were leaving the day after Christmas so the dog was already there.

    Thankx! I feel that they should run it through CODIS at least once a year, just for all those who feel there was an intruder.

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  6. #1054
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tessa2009 View Post
    Thankx! I feel that they should run it through CODIS at least once a year, just for all those who feel there was an intruder.
    I also think it's a good idea. Though I am RDI, it never hurts to keep looking. You never know.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

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  8. #1055
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    QUOTE BY COCO PUFF:
    "ITA. Also, if you were "foreign faction" would you describe yourself as small? Especially if you were demanding a ransom? Wouldn't you want to appear like a big and strong faction? hhhmmmm LE note to self....well it WAS a small faction" that is why we can't find any evidence of it's existance."

    I've often pondered that question as well, with different conclusions all the
    time. It seems rational that a person would think a real foreign faction
    would want to appear "big and strong", but maybe it was to make people
    think it wasn't the work of an intruder,thus slightly implicating the Ramseys.
    Or,on the flip side of the coin,maybe they were really a "small foreign faction" and
    weren't going to hesitate to use that term to describe themselves as,maybe because they were proud that a group so "small" could possibly pull of a crime
    so big? Entering their large home in the dark,committing the murder, writing the note, and leaving without being detected. Could be.
    Very.Such being the case.


    Connor
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  10. #1056
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    Hello WS

    I have been thinking of the R's quote: "we don't know anybody that evil."

    This is just sleuthy nit picking but I keep on thinking: "well how evil are the people that you know?"

    Also: If they did it: why call LE? If Burke did it: why call LE? If the kidnappers did it and the note says not to call LE or your child will die, why call LE?

    Why did the R's call LE?

    ...jmo...
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  12. #1057
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiquita71 View Post
    Hello WS

    I have been thinking of the R's quote: "we don't know anybody that evil."

    This is just sleuthy nit picking but I keep on thinking: "well how evil are the people that you know?"

    Also: If they did it: why call LE? If Burke did it: why call LE? If the kidnappers did it and the note says not to call LE or your child will die, why call LE?

    Why did the R's call LE?

    ...jmo...
    Not only that but they called their friends over.

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  14. #1058
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    "we don't know anybody that evil"

    JR wonderfully detaching himself again.

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  16. #1059
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    And I'm not really all that evil myself

    Hello WS

    If I had a dead daughter or dead anybody that I wanted to get rid of, and I was rich, had my own plane...

    Again, I think the R's are some kind of involved...but: they could have been more devious, yes? I think I am more devious than that, I would not have called anybody until I had the situation under control.

    i.e. My private jet taking off with said body inside and dropping it over the swamps of the deep south...many options here.

    I don't like when my musings do take me away from the idea that the R's are involved, because I really think they are but! if that is true then they must have panicked. If they killed her why not give themselves more time to get stories straight, whatnot? Or like I said think of a way to get rid of the body so that the kidnapping could look real.

    And: if someone did this to "get revenge" or to set up JR to make it look like he had killed his daughter: WOW. Think about that. What if the ole' R's are totally innocent, someone wants him and his business out of the way; so they kill JB and frame the R's.

    But, how is leaving a ransom note framing them? How would the perp know that LE would suspect the Rs? And the wow above was for the thought that business must be very cut throat for people to go so far as to do what they did to a little girl.

    I wonder why not Burke? Why would the "kidnappers"/killers not chose Burke to teach him a lesson? I need to read the ransom note again. Does it say to teach them a lesson or is that a WS theory. Sorry getting confused.



    ...jmo...
    Last edited by Chiquita71; 08-10-2009 at 08:58 AM.
    Blessings to the children of the world~May peace be yours.

    Regardless of warnings the future doesn't scare me at all. Nothings like before. ~Utada Hikaru



    If you lose one you greatly love, take comfort...

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  18. #1060
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiquita71 View Post
    Hello WS

    If I had a dead daughter or dead anybody that I wanted to get rid of, and I was rich, had my own plane...

    Again, I think the R's are some kind of involved...but: they could have been more devious, yes? I think I am more devious than that, I would not have called anybody until I had the situation under control.

    i.e. My private jet taking off with said body inside and dropping it over the swamps of the deep south...many options here.

    I don't like when my musings do take me away from the idea that the R's are involved, because I really think they are but! if that is true then they must have panicked. If they killed her why not give themselves more time to get stories straight, whatnot? Or like I said think of a way to get rid of the body so that the kidnapping could look real.

    And: if someone did this to "get revenge" or to set up JR to make it look like he had killed his daughter: WOW. Think about that. What if the ole' R's are totally innocent, someone wants him and his business out of the way; so they kill JB and frame the R's.

    But, how is leaving a ransom note framing them? How would the perp know that LE would suspect the Rs? And the wow above was for the thought that business must be very cut throat for people to go so far as to do what they did to a little girl.

    I wonder why not Burke? Why would the "kidnappers"/killers not chose Burke to teach him a lesson? I need to read the ransom note again. Does it say to teach them a lesson or is that a WS theory. Sorry getting confused.



    ...jmo...
    The RN does not actually MENTION teaching him a lesson. But the inference is there because it babbles about "respecting" his bussiness (sic) but not the "country that it serves" Pure garbage. The note was written for one purpose: To give a reason (to the police, among others) why their daughter was gone.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

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  20. #1061
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShesElectric View Post
    QUOTE BY COCO PUFF:
    "ITA. Also, if you were "foreign faction" would you describe yourself as small? Especially if you were demanding a ransom? Wouldn't you want to appear like a big and strong faction? hhhmmmm LE note to self....well it WAS a small faction" that is why we can't find any evidence of it's existance."

    I've often pondered that question as well, with different conclusions all the
    time. It seems rational that a person would think a real foreign faction
    would want to appear "big and strong", but maybe it was to make people
    think it wasn't the work of an intruder,thus slightly implicating the Ramseys.
    Or,on the flip side of the coin,maybe they were really a "small foreign faction" and
    weren't going to hesitate to use that term to describe themselves as,maybe because they were proud that a group so "small" could possibly pull of a crime
    so big? Entering their large home in the dark,committing the murder, writing the note, and leaving without being detected. Could be.
    Very.Such being the case.


    Connor
    I have the same issues with this as you do. The quote "small foreign faction" gives me big big problems. I don't even look at it from an IDI or RDI perspective at all. But it gives me the feeling that it is a group of "young" kids with problems. Like a Dylan Klebold. It is freaky.

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  22. #1062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy23 View Post
    I have the same issues with this as you do. The quote "small foreign faction" gives me big big problems. I don't even look at it from an IDI or RDI perspective at all. But it gives me the feeling that it is a group of "young" kids with problems. Like a Dylan Klebold. It is freaky.
    I thought of that when I saw "Muder by numbers"

    Two gifted high school students execute a "perfect" murder - then become engaged in an intellectual contest with a seasoned homicide detective.
    Richard Haywood, a Californian high school's coolest kid, secretly teams up with another rich kid in his class, brilliant nerd Justin 'Bonaparte' Pendleton, whose erudition, specially in forensic matters, allows them to plan elaborately perfect murders, just for the kick, for which they set up Richard's marijuana supplier, their school's janitor Ray Feathers, as a psychotic serial killer.


    If it's so then they probably went on with their lives,maybe have decent jobs and families and the only thing they need to worry about is stay out of trouble so they never have to give any DNA samples ever.

    And not to mention,who would have considered the BPD (back then) an intellectual oponent.The game wouldn't be fun in this case without a smart oponent .
    (I think this theory was discussed on the Leopold&Loeb thread.)

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  24. #1063
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    I thought of that when I saw "Muder by numbers"

    Two gifted high school students execute a "perfect" murder - then become engaged in an intellectual contest with a seasoned homicide detective.
    Richard Haywood, a Californian high school's coolest kid, secretly teams up with another rich kid in his class, brilliant nerd Justin 'Bonaparte' Pendleton, whose erudition, specially in forensic matters, allows them to plan elaborately perfect murders, just for the kick, for which they set up Richard's marijuana supplier, their school's janitor Ray Feathers, as a psychotic serial killer.


    If it's so then they probably went on with their lives,maybe have decent jobs and families and the only thing they need to worry about is stay out of trouble so they never have to give any DNA samples ever.

    And not to mention,who would have considered the BPD (back then) an intellectual oponent.The game wouldn't be fun in this case without a smart oponent .
    (I think this theory was discussed on the Leopold&Loeb thread.)
    If it were similar to that movie, they would probably have taunted police or somehow involved themselves in the investigation. The term "small foreign faction" makes me think it was a club with experimental young kids. It is farfetched though that a group was involved and most certainly was one person if you adhere to the IDI philosophy. We speak of revenge and internal knowlege due to the bonus amount, but the crime itself indicates a pedofile or beginning pedofile.

    And to top it off, a group of young kids can't keep their mouth shut. But that phrase gives me many many problems.

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  26. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy23 View Post
    If it were similar to that movie, they would probably have taunted police or somehow involved themselves in the investigation. The term "small foreign faction" makes me think it was a club with experimental young kids. It is farfetched though that a group was involved and most certainly was one person if you adhere to the IDI philosophy. We speak of revenge and internal knowlege due to the bonus amount, but the crime itself indicates a pedofile or beginning pedofile.

    And to top it off, a group of young kids can't keep their mouth shut. But that phrase gives me many many problems.
    Btw,I was reading about the Sylvia Likens case the other day.And besides the fact that Mrs.Santa wrote a play based on her murder I can't find any connection between the murder and Santa's daughter.It's been said she was a witness to the crime or is it not true?Doesn anyone know?
    Anyhow I never thought that Santa did it(and still don't think so) but I didn't know how horrible the Likens murder was and how many kids were involved,geez.The basement,the violence,the assault,some bizarre coincidences.Something hit me though.It seems they found burns on her body and I was thinking of JB,I always wondered if those abrasions were actually burns.But the coroner would have noticed that if so,right?

    (ETA:cigarette burns,not stun gun marks)
    Last edited by madeleine; 08-13-2009 at 12:29 PM.

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  28. #1065
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tessa2009 View Post
    Im going to put my 2 cents in to this to:

    I believe that PR killed her daughter. I believe that JBR made her mad because she wet her bed and with having to get up so early the next am, she snapped and hit her, knocked her over or maybe even down the stairs and she died. I believe that JR helped her cover it up. I believe that PR wrote that RN. The DNA evidence in JBs underwear didn't match anyone in the house (BTW, did they have any pets?) Does anyone know if LE has put the DNA evidence into CODIS? IMO, they need to do that every year. IF and I say that as a BIG IF, there was an intruder, a person that does this once will do it again and almost certainly get caught. I think that maybe BR knows what happened, we may have to wait until JR is dead until he speaks?

    That's all my opinion. Thankx guys!
    The known facts and the unexplained facts are what makes this case mystifying for many people. Particularly the alleged sexual abuse of JonBenet, whether it happened two nights prior to her death and on the night of her death. It did occur. That it occurred is probably what lies behind her death and subsequent staging, otherwise 911 could have been called. Burke Ramsey was in that house that night , he is on record stating that JonBenet walked into the house, on returning from the White's. He will know who sipped tea as JonBenet snacked on pineapple, and just as importantly, something he was never asked, wonder why, what was JonBenet wearing that night, pink barbie nightgown, white-gap top, red turtleneck, or pink pajamas?

    So if his involvement goes beyond that of a spectator, I reckon at some in the near future we will get to hear about it, human nature is human nature!


    .

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  30. #1066
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    Btw,I was reading about the Sylvia Likens case the other day.And besides the fact that Mrs.Santa wrote a play based on her murder I can't find any connection between the murder and Santa's daughter.It's been said she was a witness to the crime or is it not true?Doesn anyone know?
    Anyhow I never thought that Santa did it(and still don't think so) but I didn't know how horrible the Likens murder was and how many kids were involved,geez.The basement,the violence,the assault,some bizarre coincidences.Something hit me though.It seems they found burns on her body and I was thinking of JB,I always wondered if those abrasions were actually burns.But the coroner would have noticed that if so,right?

    (ETA:cigarette burns,not stun gun marks)
    Mrs. Santa (aka Janet McReynolds) was NOT a witness to that murder. It is confusing because her daughter was abducted as a young girl along with a friend. The friend was sexually assaulted and the McReynolds daughter was forced to watch. I am not familiar with much more on that case- was their daughter's friend killed as well?
    Interesting- the day of this crime was Dec. 26, wasn't it?
    It is odd that, as the McReynolds were both questioned in the JB case and gave writing, hair and saliva samples (and CLEARED) that not much else was revealed about their own child's ordeal. It was not mentioned, as far as I know, whether she knew her abductor or how she was safely returned to her parents or whether anyone was arrested in that crime. It makes me suspicous that a family member may have been involved in that crime- why else the secrecy?
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

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  32. #1067
    If the DNA found on her underwear and clothes points to an unknown man (not matching the three people still living in the house) Catch me up here, why would anyone still think they are involved. That DNA is run through the system every 2 weeks now.

    (considering the number of places they found it, underwear, under her fingernails) I don't buy casual contact.. And everyone at the party was checked/DNA.. and eliminated

    I still say intruder, but I think Intruder who knew them
    Last edited by Sabrina2011; 07-08-2011 at 08:20 PM.

  33. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina2011 View Post
    If the DNA found on her underwear and clothes points to an unknown man (not matching the three people still living in the house) Catch me up here, why would anyone still think they are involved. That DNA is run through the system every 2 weeks now.

    (considering the number of places they found it, underwear, under her fingernails) I don't buy casual contact.. And everyone at the party was checked/DNA.. and eliminated

    I still say intruder, but I think Intruder who knew them
    The male CHILDREN at the party were not checked. There is far too much to "catch up" on. You'll have to do some research. How do you know THAT DNA is run through every 2 weeks?
    The DNA may not actually rule out the people in the house. Cynic is our resident DNA expert and can do a better job than I can of explaining how that is possible.
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  35. #1069
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiquita71 View Post
    Hello WS

    I have been thinking of the R's quote: "we don't know anybody that evil."

    This is just sleuthy nit picking but I keep on thinking: "well how evil are the people that you know?"

    Also: If they did it: why call LE? If Burke did it: why call LE? If the kidnappers did it and the note says not to call LE or your child will die, why call LE?

    Why did the R's call LE?

    ...jmo...

    Working from an RDI perspective, they had no choice but to call LE. There was body that had to be explained. They were scheduled to fly to MI that morning - their pilot would be asking where they were. Friends and neighbors would be asking where JBR was. They couldn't dump the body, Casey Anthony style, and just not mention her for 6 months.
    I'm just playing detective here. I have no idea who killed JonBenet. It's just an opinion.

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  37. #1070
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina2011 View Post
    If the DNA found on her underwear and clothes points to an unknown man (not matching the three people still living in the house) Catch me up here, why would anyone still think they are involved. That DNA is run through the system every 2 weeks now.

    (considering the number of places they found it, underwear, under her fingernails) I don't buy casual contact.. And everyone at the party was checked/DNA.. and eliminated

    I still say intruder, but I think Intruder who knew them
    Hopefully Cynic will catch you up on DNA details. I'll just say this - The DNA doesn't even mean someone was present that night, much less does it mean that man is the killer.

    The DNA is so-called "touch DNA" and is from an unidentified male. It's possible the DNA is from a factory worker at the factory where the panties were produced. It's possible it comes from one of the male children at the party.

    To be fair, it is also possible that it comes from the killer. But that is not a given, and the existence of the DNA does not clear the Rs.

    But even if the DNA comes from a man who was in the house that night, it doesn't mean he killed JBR.

    There are many many inconsistencies with IDI theory, and that is why people still suspect the Rs.
    I'm just playing detective here. I have no idea who killed JonBenet. It's just an opinion.

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  39. #1071
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiquita71 View Post
    Hello WS

    I have been thinking of the R's quote: "we don't know anybody that evil."

    This is just sleuthy nit picking but I keep on thinking: "well how evil are the people that you know?"

    Also: If they did it: why call LE? If Burke did it: why call LE? If the kidnappers did it and the note says not to call LE or your child will die, why call LE?

    Why did the R's call LE?

    ...jmo...
    Also, I believe that Patsy truly loved JonBenet and would not have left her there, mot knowing when she would have been found. I think this had to do with Hohn's anxiousness and the fact that he went down to the basement, vs upstairs first on the last search.

    If he was looking for 'clues', wouldn't the most logical place to start, be in JonBenet or at least on the second floor?
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  41. #1072
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    Also, I believe that Patsy truly loved JonBenet and would not have left her there, mot knowing when she would have been found. I think this had to do with Hohn's anxiousness and the fact that he went down to the basement, vs upstairs first on the last search.

    If he was looking for 'clues', wouldn't the most logical place to start, be in JonBenet or at least on the second floor?
    That would also have been the logical place for JR to start when Detective Arndt told him to have another look around.
    When presented with a ransom note (at least a REAL one) you don't look under a bed or in a closet to see if the child is hiding. JB didn't write her own note as a prank. The RN was not a prank- it was a fake. There is a difference. When a parent experiences the horror of finding a ransom note for their missing child, it is always thought that the child is just that: missing. Not hiding. THESE parents looked for her under her bed. ?????
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

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  43. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina2011 View Post
    If the DNA found on her underwear and clothes points to an unknown man (not matching the three people still living in the house) Catch me up here, why would anyone still think they are involved. That DNA is run through the system every 2 weeks now.

    (considering the number of places they found it, underwear, under her fingernails) I don't buy casual contact.. And everyone at the party was checked/DNA.. and eliminated

    I still say intruder, but I think Intruder who knew them
    I really do not want to search for the thread or the post right now, but many experts have stated that it would be impossible to say the blood was not from the Ramseys, as the blood could have been a mixed sample. If this were the case, no one can be ruled out.
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  45. #1074
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    I really do not want to search for the thread or the post right now, but many experts have stated that it would be impossible to say the blood was not from the Ramseys, as the blood could have been a mixed sample. If this were the case, no one can be ruled out.
    Thank you- that is what I was trying to say. I know Cynic had posted something about the sample NOT ruling out a R of is was from a mixed source vs a single source.
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  47. #1075
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    Dec 2009
    Location
    Hellaware
    Posts
    905
    I think that the Ramsey's were involved. I think it may have been Burke that killed JonBenet. I do keep an open mind to the possibility it may have been an intruder, however. IF it was an intruder, IMO it was someone who the Ramsey's were familiar with, that felt comfortable roaming around the house, and attacking JonBenet within the house. JMO, as always.


    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Krishnamurti

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