View Poll Results: Who hurt this case the most?

Voters
115. You may not vote on this poll
  • M.Lacy

    15 13.04%
  • The Ramsey's&their team

    47 40.87%
  • LE,FBI

    47 40.87%
  • the media

    7 6.09%
  • everybody involved

    27 23.48%
  • experts and wanna be experts

    8 6.96%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 83
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,576
    Hi Tezi. I am curious about your comment concerning Pete Hofstrom and wondered if you could share anything else. I must say that I agree with all that you wrote!!
    ___________________

    "This Time We Get It Right!"
    If you can read this, thank a teacher, if it's in English, thank a soldier!
    If I forget to mention it. Everything I post is my opinion, right or wrong, good or bad.
    If you have questions about Rebecca Zahaus death, please watch this:http://websleuths.com/forums/showpos...00&postcount=1


  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SunnieRN For This Useful Post:


  3. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Dumpwater, Arkansas..LOL
    Posts
    5,254

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    Hi Tezi. I am curious about your comment concerning Pete Hofstrom and wondered if you could share anything else. I must say that I agree with all that you wrote!!
    SunniRN, what would you like to know about Hofstrom?

    Thank you for agreeing with me, that doesn't happen too often! LOL
    My posts are to stay at WS, not to be moved to other forums for their members to judge. I know who is moving posts and this is fair warning. If I want my posts moved to other places, I will do it myself.

    The above post is JMO, MOO, MHO, and all other disclaimers. Please leave it here at WS! TIA


  4. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to tezi For This Useful Post:


  5. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    276
    I think the medical examiner who used the same clippers for all of her fingers and failed to more thoroughly investigate the "unknown abrasions" hurt the case the most.


  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Steely For This Useful Post:


  7. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,576
    You ended your 'Pete comment', with the statement, 'i say this from experience'. Did you work with him, know someone that dealt with him?

    And sincerely, your post was complete and encompassed every major player and problem, except for Pam and Susan! ;-)
    ___________________

    "This Time We Get It Right!"
    If you can read this, thank a teacher, if it's in English, thank a soldier!
    If I forget to mention it. Everything I post is my opinion, right or wrong, good or bad.
    If you have questions about Rebecca Zahaus death, please watch this:http://websleuths.com/forums/showpos...00&postcount=1


  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to SunnieRN For This Useful Post:


  9. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Dumpwater, Arkansas..LOL
    Posts
    5,254

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    You ended your 'Pete comment', with the statement, 'i say this from experience'. Did you work with him, know someone that dealt with him?

    And sincerely, your post was complete and encompassed every major player and problem, except for Pam and Susan! ;-)
    I have known people who have dealt with him. I've known defense lawyers that schmoozed with him.....

    Yes, I forgot Auntie Pam and Pitbull Susan Stine....LOL I guess I should have covered them as well.
    My posts are to stay at WS, not to be moved to other forums for their members to judge. I know who is moving posts and this is fair warning. If I want my posts moved to other places, I will do it myself.

    The above post is JMO, MOO, MHO, and all other disclaimers. Please leave it here at WS! TIA


  10. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to tezi For This Useful Post:


  11. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    In the Federal Witness Protection Program
    Posts
    7,992
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely View Post
    I think the medical examiner who used the same clippers for all of her fingers and failed to more thoroughly investigate the "unknown abrasions" hurt the case the most.
    There are so many things that hurt this case, and the coroner was certainly up there in my "top 5". Right along with this I'd add his decision NOT to add his verbal comments about her sexual abuse to his written report and his failure to perform the tests to determine TOD when first encountering the body.

    To this list I also add the VERY FIRST SCREW-UP- that goes to Officer French for failing to figure out how to open the WC door. That ONE mistake, at the very first moment of the investigation, did more damage to the case than anyone involved in it has had the courage to say.
    This ONE thing allowed the crime scene and the body to be "discovered" by a suspect. To quote Dr. Henry Lee: "Rice already cooked". After that, it was anyone's guess as to whether JB was in the WC the way JR said she was. ALL the uncertainty- were her hands bound tightly as he said they were? Were her legs bound? Did he preform CPR as he said he did? Feet and legs exposed? Barbie doll in there with her? We'll never know the truth. There WAS another eyewitness to what JR did and saw- FW. I hope he told LE what he witnessed, even if he hasn't told anyone else.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


  12. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to DeeDee249 For This Useful Post:


  13. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,576
    Quote Originally Posted by tezi View Post
    I have known people who have dealt with him. I've known defense lawyers that schmoozed with him.....

    Yes, I forgot Auntie Pam and Pitbull Susan Stine....LOL I guess I should have covered them as well.
    Thank you again Tezi! I can imagine a lot of people enjoyed schmoozing with him. He certainly knew how to use his power. What a jerk!

    As for Pam and Susan, I kind of feel as if they were minor players in all of this. Does anyone else feel that Patsy wanted it to be all about she and John all the time? She never even talked about Burke and the effects of his sisters murder, unless she was almost forced to. Guess she was afraid everyone would stop focusing on her and 'her grief'.

    Dee Dee as usual, you are brilliant!
    ___________________

    "This Time We Get It Right!"
    If you can read this, thank a teacher, if it's in English, thank a soldier!
    If I forget to mention it. Everything I post is my opinion, right or wrong, good or bad.
    If you have questions about Rebecca Zahaus death, please watch this:http://websleuths.com/forums/showpos...00&postcount=1


  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to SunnieRN For This Useful Post:


  15. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    7,006
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    There are so many things that hurt this case, and the coroner was certainly up there in my "top 5". Right along with this I'd add his decision NOT to add his verbal comments about her sexual abuse to his written report and his failure to perform the tests to determine TOD when first encountering the body.

    To this list I also add the VERY FIRST SCREW-UP- that goes to Officer French for failing to figure out how to open the WC door. That ONE mistake, at the very first moment of the investigation, did more damage to the case than anyone involved in it has had the courage to say.
    This ONE thing allowed the crime scene and the body to be "discovered" by a suspect. To quote Dr. Henry Lee: "Rice already cooked". After that, it was anyone's guess as to whether JB was in the WC the way JR said she was. ALL the uncertainty- were her hands bound tightly as he said they were? Were her legs bound? Did he preform CPR as he said he did? Feet and legs exposed? Barbie doll in there with her? We'll never know the truth. There WAS another eyewitness to what JR did and saw- FW. I hope he told LE what he witnessed, even if he hasn't told anyone else.
    DeeDee249,

    I think FW was interviewed but he is on record as stating he will reserve recounting everything to when he is called to testify in court. I reckon he has something interesting to say, and he knows if it was voiced outside of court LW would be mailing him some litigation papers, never mind allowing for a fabricated rebuttal!

    One person who hurt this case real bad was Lou Smit since he lent credibility to the IDI theories. This along with his merry band of independent investigators who appeared in all those Ramsey backed documentaries promoting the IDI case.

    .


  16. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to UKGuy For This Useful Post:


  17. #39
    Rice already cooked...that pretty much sums up this case.

    Officer French AND Officer Reichenbach AND Fleet White failed to find the body of little JonBenet. They were the three who entered the basement before John.

    Detective Patterson's not going with his gut instinct that he felt something was not right.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98


  18. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Toltec For This Useful Post:


  19. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,576
    I honestly believe that John was down therein the wee hours of the morning, before BPD was called, he was down there withFW at around 1 pm, and that he was also there at 10 am. Who I do not think was there when the BPD searched the basement was JonBenet.

    I can't get over the time lapse, in which a father, whose daughter had been 'kidnapped', would not have been glued to the phone, waiting for the kidnappers to call. That he would not have been filled with anguish,when they didn't call. Ican't believe he would so disregard the instructions in the ransom note, had he BELIEVED it were true.

    He had to have done something when he disappeared. It also corresponds to the time he told JAR and SL that he found JonBenet. JR is not the innocent victim, that covered for a deranged wife, IMHO.
    ___________________

    "This Time We Get It Right!"
    If you can read this, thank a teacher, if it's in English, thank a soldier!
    If I forget to mention it. Everything I post is my opinion, right or wrong, good or bad.
    If you have questions about Rebecca Zahaus death, please watch this:http://websleuths.com/forums/showpos...00&postcount=1


  20. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to SunnieRN For This Useful Post:


  21. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    4,573
    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    JR is not the innocent victim, that covered for a deranged wife, IMHO.
    ITA.
    and you know what I've noticed.....he loves to be on TV and pretend to be a victim so much more than Patsy....just pay attention,P is bored,she's just there because she needs to be there,he on the other hand LOVES it.
    let's say PR did it and he covered for her.....does it explain his behaviour?would you risk and expose your crazy wife like that?NO IMO.he enjoys the show,she doesn't.who's the happy happy joy joy one all the time


  22. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to madeleine For This Useful Post:


  23. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    7,006
    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    I honestly believe that John was down therein the wee hours of the morning, before BPD was called, he was down there withFW at around 1 pm, and that he was also there at 10 am. Who I do not think was there when the BPD searched the basement was JonBenet.

    I can't get over the time lapse, in which a father, whose daughter had been 'kidnapped', would not have been glued to the phone, waiting for the kidnappers to call. That he would not have been filled with anguish,when they didn't call. Ican't believe he would so disregard the instructions in the ransom note, had he BELIEVED it were true.

    He had to have done something when he disappeared. It also corresponds to the time he told JAR and SL that he found JonBenet. JR is not the innocent victim, that covered for a deranged wife, IMHO.
    SunnieRN,
    I honestly believe that John was down therein the wee hours of the morning, before BPD was called, he was down there withFW at around 1 pm, and that he was also there at 10 am. Who I do not think was there when the BPD searched the basement was JonBenet.
    Yes I reckon something took place, exactly what, I am unsure about. He may have relocated JonBenet, thus explaining the blanket, or simply added those stupid restraints and the duct-tape to JonBenet?

    With the RN deadline having passed, John absenting himself, then later on he finds JonBenet, all in a nice linear chronological sequence, which culminates in him instructing his pilot to prepare a flight for Atlanta, coincidence?

    Seems to me John had expected the police to be thin on the ground post-deadline, when this did not happen, he must have re-calibrated Plan A. I am convinced if they had wanted JonBenet discovered they would left her somewhere more easier to find, not dumped in a locked, dark cellar?

    The more I think about it, the more I reckon we are missing out on some redacted evidence. Consider, lying on the wine-cellar floor was a blood-stained pink barbie nightgown and a pink barbie doll along with JonBenet wrapped in a white blanket. Yet Fleet White missed all of this when he looked earlier that morning. I used to accept explanations of dimness, difficulty to view in the dark etc, but that was when I was simply focussed upon JonBenet wrapped in a blanket. So there was a contrast of colors and object sizes, enough I reckon to catch the attention of an observant person. And Fleet White was attentive he was looking for a missing child.

    An alternative explanation for JonBenet and those objects found along with her body in the wine-cellar is that John Ramsey moved them there during his time-out period?

    .


  24. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    In the Federal Witness Protection Program
    Posts
    7,992
    We don't know for a fact that FW missed the Barbie nightie, doll, etc. The truth is that we do not know exactly what FW told LE about what he saw in the wineceller- the condition of the body (what part of her was covered by the blanket, etc). We don't know exactly what he saw JR do (or not do) when he followed JR into the wineceller. It is doubtful that JR tried to untie her wrists, as he claims, yet FW has not said publicly whether JR did or did not do this.
    We don't know if he saw or remembered seeing the pink nightie or the box containing the doll. It isn't clear whether JR actually turned on the lights IN the wineceller (as we know, FW was unable to find the light switch for the room when he went there alone early that morning).
    If the room was dim with only the light from the area outside the WC, he may not have noticed the pink nightie or doll. The doll, seen, but not clearly, in some crime scene photos, was in a cellophane box, which would have made it less likely to be noticed as a doll, especially when the only thing you are focused on is a dead little girl with a rope around her neck lying in the middle of the room. And it was not on top of the blanket, but a little bit away from the blanket that was left behind in the basement.
    And with the adrenalin pumping as FW entered the room where he saw the dead body of a little girl he knew well, it would be understandable if he did not notice these things.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


  25. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    90
    If LE would have approached it right, the rest of it wouldn't have happened.


  26. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to oceanwatch For This Useful Post:


  27. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    7,006
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    We don't know for a fact that FW missed the Barbie nightie, doll, etc. The truth is that we do not know exactly what FW told LE about what he saw in the wineceller- the condition of the body (what part of her was covered by the blanket, etc). We don't know exactly what he saw JR do (or not do) when he followed JR into the wineceller. It is doubtful that JR tried to untie her wrists, as he claims, yet FW has not said publicly whether JR did or did not do this.
    We don't know if he saw or remembered seeing the pink nightie or the box containing the doll. It isn't clear whether JR actually turned on the lights IN the wineceller (as we know, FW was unable to find the light switch for the room when he went there alone early that morning).
    If the room was dim with only the light from the area outside the WC, he may not have noticed the pink nightie or doll. The doll, seen, but not clearly, in some crime scene photos, was in a cellophane box, which would have made it less likely to be noticed as a doll, especially when the only thing you are focused on is a dead little girl with a rope around her neck lying in the middle of the room. And it was not on top of the blanket, but a little bit away from the blanket that was left behind in the basement.
    And with the adrenalin pumping as FW entered the room where he saw the dead body of a little girl he knew well, it would be understandable if he did not notice these things.
    DeeDee249,
    We don't know for a fact that FW missed the Barbie nightie, doll, etc.
    Really, how so?

    Other than John Ramsey no other person in this case is better qualified to offer an account of how the wine-cellar crime-scene looked.

    Usually inconsistencies matter, particularly in the area of crime. Witness Columbo with his one more question sir and Sherlock Holmes with the case of The Dog That Did Not Bark.

    In the JonBenet case we have Fleet White reporting the wine-cellar free of JonBenet's body in the morning and John Ramsey heading straight there at 1 AM to find JonBenet with various lying objects around her.

    As per Occam the simplest explanation is that Fleet White missed JonBenet due to the darkness in the wine-cellar.

    Here is an observation: If you look into a room, locked from the outside, and it is dark, do you expect to find a live six year old girl, if so why?

    In terms of probability, on his first visit, I reckon it was more likely that Fleet White would have seen JonBenet lying in the wine-cellar given the artifacts gathered around her. Obviously not clearly, but given he had gone to the bother of unlatching the door, a cursory glance appears at odds with his intent?

    Maybe the barbie doll and wrapping paper etc was lying on the floor on Fleet White's first visit, and he did see that, but not JonBenet? This would be powerful testimony.

    And with the adrenalin pumping as FW entered the room where he saw the dead body of a little girl he knew well, it would be understandable if he did not notice these things.
    Quite so. So you will excuse Fleet White for returning immediately to the wine-cellar, after JonBenet's body had been taken upstairs, where unlike us, he had plenty time to observe all the things he may have missed on a previous visit?

    This may be the pivotal point, Fleet White might actually know that the wine-cellar was differently arranged from his earlier visit, discounting JonBenet's body.

    Hence his determination to take another look, if his andrenalin was such an impediment why bother with another look simply to peer at duct-tape?


    Patently Fleet White's silence on what he saw implies he has important testimony to offer, And although we cannot know what he saw we can speculate.

    Although Fleet White's observations are at odds with my preferred RDI, it may actually be the case, I am wrong and Fleet White is right. Implying John moved JonBenet into the wine-cellar?


    .


  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to UKGuy For This Useful Post:


Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Three Children Hurt At MacDonalds.
    By concernedperson in forum Crimes in the News
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-24-2006, 08:06 PM
  2. I'm not here to hurt you"
    By Casshew in forum Crimes in the News
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-02-2005, 11:41 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •