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  1. #16
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    Test.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by puffster View Post
    All that really remains for me is whether or not she was sexually assalted, or if there was even an attempt at sexual contact. My feeling is no. Which would mean this is simpler than we all can believe: he got angry and killed her over an argument, at least on the surface, about work. I think it's hard for us to put our arms around this. If there was evidence of sexual assault we would all be familiar with it. It seems to me that whenever a guy kills a woman, the vast majority of the time, it turns out to be preceded by a sex crime. This kind of thing just doesn't happen that often. I think we are BEFUDDLED that there WAS NOT A SEXUAL ASPECT.
    Like you, my feeling is no too but I'm not having a hard time coming to grips with the "simplicity" of it-I've seen or heard of this kind of rage before and especially added the entire set of circumstances surrounding this case, plus he probably also being misogynistic. Still it is a set of complex factors interacting- so not a "simple" thing but clear cut yes I think so.


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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unconvinced View Post
    Test.

    Welcome Unconvinced


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  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JL50ish View Post
    According to the synagogue...Annie had not converted. She was studying the religion (likely at the behest of fiance's parents). However, since she would not have converted prior to her wedding, it could be construed that she was going thru the "motions to learn about the religion and be open to conversion - if moved to do so" to silence her in-laws until the wedding was past. I say this because as someone who is very close to the Vietnamese Catholic community, it is very unlikely that such a person would actually go thru the conversion. Vietnamese CAtholics are very strong in their faith because their people have had such tremendous martyrs for the faith...

    Annie's family had a Catholic memorial service for her yesterday. Technically, the fiance has no right to go thru with his memorial service or decide her burial since he is not "next of kin." Sure, he can have some kind of service for him and his family, but he can't require that her body/coffin be there. Her parents will decide her final funeral and burial.

    But, back to topic....
    Thanks, L50ish for your temperate post. I don't know if it's fair to hypothesize that Annie would not complete conversion; she was getting married in a synagogue, something not all Catholic brides would do. They were not also having a Catholic wedding, which I have known to be done. I'm not a Jew (or, for that matter, a Catholic), but I have a few non-Jewish friends who gone through the process (which often isn't completed until after marriage) and, from their descriptions, the process seems more complicated than other "crossovers." One would expect that the parents would hold a Catholic memorial for her; this is their faith. The synagogue will apparently host a memorial service too.

    You are certainly right about Vietnamese Catholics suffering greatly for their religion.


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  8. #20
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    And we think we're going to figure out the motive...

    NEW HAVEN, Conn. – A Connecticut police chief says authorities may never know the motive for the killing of a Yale University graduate student whose body was found hidden behind a wall.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090918/ap_on_re_us/us_yale_killing_195


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  10. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by puffster View Post
    All that really remains for me is whether or not she was sexually assalted, or if there was even an attempt at sexual contact. My feeling is no. Which would mean this is simpler than we all can believe: he got angry and killed her over an argument, at least on the surface, about work. I think it's hard for us to put our arms around this. If there was evidence of sexual assault we would all be familiar with it. It seems to me that whenever a guy kills a woman, the vast majority of the time, it turns out to be preceded by a sex crime. This kind of thing just doesn't happen that often. I think we are BEFUDDLED that there WAS NOT A SEXUAL ASPECT.
    I know...seems crazy, huh? Still, though, his statement doesn't say she wasn't sexually assaulted - he only says they never had a romantic affair. For some reason, I keep thinking it was over a colony of mice/pregnant mice and how dirty their habitat was. If it was very dirty, the ammonia would be off the hook I would think, and make them more prone to disease and or death, etc. ... especially when being "test" mice / engineered mice.


  11. #22
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    Please leave the forensic astrology in the forensic astrology forum.
    This is not the place for that discussion nor is it the place to discuss forensic astrologers themselves.


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  13. #23
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    With all due respect, I seriously can't see how Annie wouldn't have gone through with her conversion to Judaism. Everything about her pattern in life is worked through. She starts, she conquers, she finishes. If she starts something, it seems to me as though she finishes it. She sets a goal and conquers it. I believe she set out to convert & was bound & determined to convert. She grew up in America, therefore more than likely was used to Americanized ways. I don't think anything about her Vietnamese heritage regarding Catholicism holds 100% true in her situation. She grew up in California, which is the reason I think this. Still, I understand why it may be hard to fathom she'd consider a conversion, but I find it quite normal considering the fact she was immensely in love with her soon to be husband. Everything that I've learned about Annie shows hard work and dedication. I find it hard to believe she'd work so hard to learn something she knew nothing about and have it all be in vain.


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  15. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey*Girl View Post
    I know...seems crazy, huh? Still, though, his statement doesn't say she wasn't sexually assaulted - he only says they never had a romantic affair. For some reason, I keep thinking it was over a colony of mice/pregnant mice and how dirty their habitat was. If it was very dirty, the ammonia would be off the hook I would think, and make them more prone to disease and or death, etc. ... especially when being "test" mice / engineered mice.
    He, Jersey Girl. I think that the police have said that there were no indications of sexual assault; certainly there are no such charges. I think that you're right: Resentment could have been sparked by recurring problems in the lab: It could have either or both ways: Clark and Le could have been felt that the other was not doing something properly. (I work in an office where an executive assistant, now mercifully gone, actually attempted to have a night-time cleanup crew member suspended or fired for not cleaning her coffee equipment every night to specifications.)

    From observations of several brides-to-be, I would imagine that Annie Le might have had no patience that day for anything that Raymond Clark had to say.


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  17. #25
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    reminder the topic is:
    Possible Murder motives
    The topic is not other posters. Discussing other posters is not ok.
    thank you.


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  19. #26
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    I posted this elsewhere, but it relates to her conversion:

    * Her friends have said in comments on YDN that she was converting. Doesn't sound like something she was dabbling with or doing just to temporarily placate his parents.
    * There are hints that her family was not pleased with the marriage. Her uncle is quoted in the YDN article "Ten hour days and still smiling" as saying "she seemed hell-bent on getting married."
    * Yale's police called in the FBI because they felt there was a chance of inter-state abduction because her family wasn't pleased about the wedding and they theorized it might have been an abduction by a member of her family (this was a side-comment in one of the articles I read today, but I can't remember which one, unfortunately... will edit with link when I refind it). I had been wondering on what grounds they had called in the FBI. That also explains why the FBI bowed out when it ceased to be a missing person case.

    All that said, I don't think her conversion/non-conversion or her family's feelings about same are related to her murder, but people here seem interested, so...


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  21. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skigirl View Post
    snipped
    All that said, I don't think her conversion/non-conversion or her family's feelings about same are related to her murder snipped .
    fully agree


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  23. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skigirl View Post
    I posted this elsewhere, but it relates to her conversion:

    * Her friends have said in comments on YDN that she was converting. Doesn't sound like something she was dabbling with or doing just to temporarily placate his parents.
    * There are hints that her family was not pleased with the marriage. Her uncle is quoted in the YDN article "Ten hour days and still smiling" as saying "she seemed hell-bent on getting married."
    * Yale's police called in the FBI because they felt there was a chance of inter-state abduction because her family wasn't pleased about the wedding and they theorized it might have been an abduction by a member of her family (this was a side-comment in one of the articles I read today, but I can't remember which one, unfortunately... will edit with link when I refind it). I had been wondering on what grounds they had called in the FBI. That also explains why the FBI bowed out when it ceased to be a missing person case.

    All that said, I don't think her conversion/non-conversion or her family's feelings about same are related to her murder, but people here seem interested, so...
    Quote Originally Posted by Waddles View Post
    fully agree
    Ditto!


  24. #29
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    Thanks to all who responded to my post on the earlier thread! I read the first ones, then was gone for the day, so still want to go back over the subsequent pages there.

    Couple of thoughts:

    I expect Annie was impatient with much that was going on at Yale that day as she was planning on leaving for her wedding soon and her thoughts were undoubtedly on the future. One thing she probably felt she didn't need was an unexpected, unscheduled trip to the animal facility; she may have thought she had everything wrapped up there to be taken care of during her absence. But she was so dutiful and responsible that she went there at the requested time. Very sad, indeed.

    I would also like to add that these mice in question were not field mice or mice that might be found in the cellar/basement of a home. Yale had a lot invested in these mice -- in terms of protocols, treatments, medicines, investigators. I expect that the mice had to be analyzed (perhaps dissected) at certain times to determine if these protocols, medicines, treatments, etc., were having their desired effect. Given that, it could be construed as demeaning to say that Raymond Clark "cleaned mice cages" for a living. Not to defend what he is accused of doing to Annie, in any way. But just to encourage a thought or two about the language used in reference to his job which, after all, he had held for four years.

    MOO.


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  26. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JL50ish View Post
    Another angle...

    She's getting married very soon....the wedding is going to be a very expensive affair...his wedding is a long way away and won't be nearly as nice...his fiancee works there, too...perhaps she's heard about Annie's plans and is very jealous of Annie's wedding, Annie's future career, and Annie's fiance's future career....so, she continues to bad mouth Annie to anyone and everyone (hence the bad rumors about Annie)....perhaps she even sabotages Annie on occasions. It wouldn't surprise me since she may have suspected that her fiance thought that Annie was cute or a "good catch" or whatever.

    Also...all of Clark's fiancee's talk about "how nice Annie's wedding is going to be" would be annoying the heck out of him...making him feel more inadequate and cheated out what he thinks should be his, too.

    Hmmm...I like this thought angle. I think this murder still boils down to power and rage as many have us have been speculating, but I think it is possible that the jealousy issue, which you're introducing, could partly be the fuel.

    We have to remember that JH may have known (or known of) Annie, too. Also she had previously ranted about who Ray doesn't like in the YARC. So there was possibly a lot of cross-talk about work stuff between JH and RC (and the other fam members) at home, and perhaps that included Annie who is more educated, having this dream wedding, etc.... all this stuff that sets Annie apart (higher) than RC and his fam.


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