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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    clifton park,ny
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    OT-LKL,sat.Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald

    Did anyone see LKL last night? He was in a Maryland prison with Jeff MacDonald. MacDonald is trying once again to get his conviction thrown out. When you watch him you can easily be convinced that he is innocent. He claims it was all a conspiracy and evidence that would exonerate him was hidden. He and his defense are now going with DNA evidence.Of course he claims this is being held up for some reason.It would be something if he actually was innocent.
    On the other hand, I keep thinking of Scott and how similar these 2 are,a big conspiracy,no history of violence,the drug crazed hippies vs the satanic cult worshippers,the inlaws who believed in them until they caught them in lies. It is all frightenly similar!

  2. #2
    tthomanGuest
    Yes I caught about half of that....also, I read that book written a few years ago....(can't recall the title)...

  3. #3
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    Aug 2003
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    I saw that show. It has been repeated several times over the past week or so. I was familiar with the story from the TV movie that came out many years ago in which he was made out to be very guilty. I must admit that in the LKL interview he was pretty convincing that he was innocent. He said that neighbors saw the hippies enter his home that night and that he would be freed on appeal if he could be granted one. Apparently, at one point, in an effort to appease the in-laws who were traumatized by the death of their daughter and granddaughters and that the killers were still free, Jeff told them that he had hunted them down and killed them. This was, of course, a lie and so when he was initially cleared and went on with his life, the in-laws learned of the lie and became suspicious of him. It was this lie -- he says -- that got him into trouble. I'd like to hear from the neighbors who saw the hippies.

  4. #4
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    Aug 2003
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    Jeffrey MacDonald is absolutely, 100% guilty! I always think of him when people describe sociopaths who lie so convincingly because they have no conscience.

    But apparently it is also true that evidence was withheld at his trial and the government isn't in any hurry to run DNA tests that might appear to exonerate him.

    I, too, would like to hear what the neighbor says. There was a soldier at the time who said he saw a "hippy girl in a floppy hat" (MacDonald's description of one of the assailants) in the neighborhood - but that's a far cry from seeing a band of hippies enter MacDonald's house!

    There are some who believe MacDonald is guilty even IF there actually were some "hippies" at the house that night. No matter who was there, we are still left with babies and a housewife who were "overkilled" while a grown soldier (the trainer for the Army boxing team) was barely wounded during a "life-and-death" struggle with multiple assailants.

  5. #5
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    PA
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    Give me a break. He is completely guilty. I have read this book also. There is no way hippies came into his house and killed his wife and kids and not him. Just like Darlie Router..we are supposed to believe all of these intruders came into their houses and killed innocent (I believe sleeping) children and left the parents alive.
    Just my opinion of course!!

  6. #6
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    May 2015
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    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
    Give me a break. He is completely guilty. I have read this book also. There is no way hippies came into his house and killed his wife and kids and not him. Just like Darlie Router..we are supposed to believe all of these intruders came into their houses and killed innocent (I believe sleeping) children and left the parents alive.
    Remember the magazine found on his coffee table with an article about the Manson murders and "hippies" Macdonald is a classic narcissist and during the time he was out while on appeal... he showed his true nature.

  7. #7
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    Oct 2011
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    Aiken, SC/Augusta, GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyCain View Post
    Remember the magazine found on his coffee table with an article about the Manson murders and "hippies" Macdonald is a classic narcissist and during the time he was out while on appeal... he showed his true nature.
    Right on Aly, right on. We don't hear much about the magazine now, do we, and about the staged living room where the potted plant is spared.
    Tisk, tisk Jeffrey. I guess he was too busy finger painting on the wall in blood and forgot all about kicking things about the place.

  8. #8
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    Oct 2014
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    110
    Despite 45 years of data that contradicts most of the claims leveled in his 13 page sur-reply, inmate's ego knows no bounds. He is basically pleading with the court to ignore court procedures/mandates and rule on the basis of, ahem, morality. He doesn't challenge the FACT that his request for additional DNA tests is untimely, and his points of emphasis are both dubious and grandiose.

    - Inmate was not severally injured when MP's arrived at the crime scene

    - Inmate never risked his life saving a patient in an ER setting

    - The government did not argue that the presence of all 3 unsourced hairs was the result of contamination

    - The FACT is that the government argued that the presence of an unsourced hair found in Kristen's fingernail scrapings was the result of contamination

    - Contrary to inmate's assertion that this hair had a bloody root, defense attorney Gordon Widenhouse admitted at the 2012 evidentiary hearing that NONE of the 3 unsourced hairs were bloody

    - Most of inmate's quotations (e.g., Judge Dupree, Judge Fox, John Bruce, 4th Circuit Court) lack context

    - Judge Fox determined that the unsourced hair evidence was not exculpatory

    http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

  9. #9
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    Oct 2014
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    110

    Irrelevant

    Kathryn just doesn't get it.

    http://www.crimearchives.net/1979_ma...543-doc048.pdf

    She has completed the trifecta. This includes ignoring a court order (e.g., inmate signing the reply brief), presenting exhibits (e.g., articles and books) that are not a part of the legal record, and presenting arguments that have no bearing on the issues (e.g., whether request for additional DNA tests was untimely, would no additional tests result in a "manifest injustice") currently before the 4th Circuit Court.

    http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

  10. #10
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    Aug 2003
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    Madison, WI
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    Thanks for the thread. Like many of you, I couldn't help but think of Scott Peterson. Like Peterson, MacDonald's expressions of emotion are contrived and transparent. I'm generally skeptical of people who claim they can tell whether someone is lying because the studies show that we're much more confident in this area than we are correct. Only about 5% of people can do consistently better than chance. However, I think different rules apply here, and in the Peterson case as well, because these men are psychopaths (I believe this -- I might be wrong) and don't experience the full spectrum of emotions, making them emotionally retarded in a sense. In the LKL interview, MacDonald became "upset" several times, and "recovered" instantly each time. This jumped out at me, because emotions don't work that way. Like honest facial expressions (except for surprise), emotions fade in and fade out. I thought MacDonald looked ridiculous -- one instant nearly sobbing -- one second later championing his cause. I don't know much about this case, but when they talked about him telling his wife's stepfather that he and a few buddies "took care of" one of the killers, I was reminded of Peterson again. Only someone who is emotionally blunted could believe that this would get the man to move on with his life. Just like Scott saying that Laci was okay with the affair or at peace with it or whatever. DUMB. Emotions matter. Without them, we can't reason very well, because we can't assign a proper value to different behaviors or potential consequences. MacDonald shows that you can be smart in an academic sense but remarkably stupid in the sophisticated world of social interaction -- especially if you're a psychopath. I've had difficulty learning much about the case. Anyone know the State's best evidence against him? What cannot be explained away?
    My opinions and deductions, hopefully based on reason and evidence.

    "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
    Christopher Hitchens


  11. #11
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    Aug 2003
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    I too believe Jeff MacDonald is guilty.
    I've read the book, seen the movie, and have heard his interviews several times.
    One part of the evidence was the superficial wound he received. And lied about the extent of it afterwards.
    There was also some evidence about ice pick stab marks that went through his pajama top. There was proof the marks were in a pattern as if the top was wrapped around his hand. The top was found on his wife's body.
    What strikes me as the most damaging are his own words of the account.
    He says while he was fighting off some of the "hippies" in the living room, his wife was screaming "Jeff, Jeff, why are they doing this to me."
    His daughters, he claims were yelling "Daddy!" "Daddy!"
    Imagine this: "Jeff, Jeff why are YOU doing this to me?"
    And would his daughters call only for him? I think they would be yelling for Mommy.(He was rarely home and they were closer to mom) I think they called "Daddy!" Because he was the one hacking away at them.
    My guess, he and his wife were in an argument. She slapped at him and he took that board and hit her. Killing her. One of the daughters entered the room saw what happened, and he had to kill both daughters.
    Then being a doctor, he sliced himself, knowing where it would do the least harm, and BINGO he had a story.
    The Hokey Pokey Clinic - A good place to turn yourself around:

  12. #12
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    Aug 2003
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    Natural Selection-
    Great post!

  13. #13
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    Aug 2003
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    Have any of you read fatal justice?
    I hope you know, this will go down on your permanent record.

  14. #14
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    Aug 2003
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    MI
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    The piece of evidence that gets to me is his p.j. top and the way the stab marks (ice pick?) line up. Also, why are his wounds so minor compared to his wife and the girls. I think he's convinced himself that he didn't do it. I think he has a lot in common with Scott. I did read Fatal Vision. The author had to retract parts of the book because he "embellished" some of it, but reading between the lines told me that Jeff boy is one sick puppy!

  15. #15
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    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pasadena
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    Not fatal vision.. fatal justice. Another book.

    DId you know that McDonald successfully sued the author of fatal vision because of lies in it and won?

    I use to be convinced of his guilt. I am not so sure anymore.
    I hope you know, this will go down on your permanent record.

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