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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz325
    Unfortunately, after reading everything, I fear MM is right and this case will very likely fall into a "Judge Crater" type case and possibly never be solved. It's just too bad because it would only take one person to, as he said, turn state's evidence to get this resolved. I know Janis McCall and her family have been active in this, with her starting the One Missing Link organization but it's too bad Janis and her family don't band together with Sherrill's sister, Debra Schwartz and maybe some more of Sherrill's family members and DEMAND some answers, especially with the 15th anniversary looming. Whoever is responsible needs to feel the "heat" of this case badly and get very nervous about things and I think only the families and the public in Springfield can make that happen. We can keep discussing it here and keep it heated up but ultimately it's going to take some profoundly angry demands by family members and other people in the Springfield area to get the ball rolling on this again. Very sad....

    Buddy Midwest, Welcome Back!
    I couldn't agree more with your views. What I can't understand is why the good people of Springfield don't demand some answers from the Springfield police department. What makes them so special that they can get by with the occasional utterance of bland, uninformative statements that they are still working the case. How do we know that? Is there an oversight committee to ensure that the case is still being worked? No one knows. The president of the United States is required under our Constitution to report to the United States Congress the "State of the Union" at regular intervals. Yet the police seem to have a blank check to seemingly sit on their hands.

    These poor victims didn't receive justice in their lifetimes and they are not receiving justice in their deaths. Springfield's police vehicles are marked "To Protect and Serve." Who are they serving? The public or themselves?

    If I were in Springfield I would be among those concerned souls who would march up and down North Boonville Avenue demanding some answers. Every day that justice is delayed is another day that justice has been denied. Somebody out there knows what happened. The police HAVE to know more than they have revealed. Why can't they at least tell us some of the statistics of the case? How many manhours have been expended? How much has it cost? How many suspects have they interviewed and do they have any viable suspects now? Do they have any working theories? Do they even have anyone actually working the case? No one here really knows.

    I don't know about the rest of you here but I think it is long past the point of patience. I worked for the public in Springfield for 22 years. I never got by with this lack of results. As I said earlier, what is so special about the Springfield Police Department that they can't produce something after almost 15 years? Where is the accountability? My angry $0.02.
    Last edited by Missouri Mule; 01-12-2007 at 09:47 PM.


  2. #197
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    It has been said that the Concrete company sold and records were lost. Tax records exist for all employees of that company and could be found that way. I dont know if the police looked at that at all but those tax records exist if the company was a legitimate business. Cross referenced to vehicle titles and plates this could yield results.


  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooogrit
    It has been said that the Concrete company sold and records were lost. Tax records exist for all employees of that company and could be found that way. I dont know if the police looked at that at all but those tax records exist if the company was a legitimate business. Cross referenced to vehicle titles and plates this could yield results.
    Of course they do. If the police didn't even do that, they didn't do much of anything constructive, did they? The owners could have been hauled before a grand jury and made to testify. If they don't their goose is cooked. Their 5th amendment rights don't apply there. If they lie, they get the Scooter Libby treatment and may be modeling orange jump suits at Leavenworth (or in this case up in Jefferson City) before they get the needle.

    Personally, I think this whole concrete company business and those alleged employees is a dry hole.

    I would bet my bottom dollar that if an outside, retired investigator would take a complete look at the case, it would be solved within a month or less. Mark Fuhrmann, of O.J. fame, took a look at an old 23 year old murder case on the east coast and solved it quickly enough. The facts will always win out. But if lazy incompetence is the order of the day the case will never be solved. This was turned into a political farce almost from the outset and although it has abated over the years, those early days of lost opportunity can never be recovered. They say there is a golden 48 hours after a crime is committed to get the case solved. At this rate it will be 48 years before we know what happened.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Skakel
    Last edited by Missouri Mule; 01-12-2007 at 09:46 PM.


  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule
    Of course they do. If the police didn't even do that, they didn't do much of anything constructive, did they? The owners could have been hauled before a grand jury and made to testify. If they don't their goose is cooked. Their 5th amendment rights don't apply there. If they lie, they get the Scooter Libby treatment and may be modeling orange jump suits at Leavenworth (or in this case up in Jefferson City) before they get the needle.

    Personally, I think this whole concrete company business and those alleged employees is a dry hole.

    I would be my bottom dollar that if an outside, retired investigator would take a complete look at the case, it would be solved within a month or less. Mark Fuhrmann, of O.J. fame, took a look at an old 23 year old murder case on the east coast and solved it quickly enough. The facts will always win out. But if lazy incompetence is the order of the day the case will never be solved. This was turned into a political farce almost from the outset and although it has abated over the years, those early days of lost opportunity can never be recovered. They say there is a golden 48 hours after a crime is committed to get the case solved. At this rate it will be 48 years before we know what happened.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Skakel
    You speak several times of having inside information you cant elaborate on. Is this case as solvable as you say? Is this really a coverup from within? Who gains? Who is being protected? Probably not answers you can give. Can an independent get the information he needs to solve the case? I am sure someone would take this case on just for the exposure.


  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooogrit
    You speak several times of having inside information you cant elaborate on. Is this case as solvable as you say? Is this really a coverup from within? Who gains? Who is being protected? Probably not answers you can give. Can an independent get the information he needs to solve the case? I am sure someone would take this case on just for the exposure.
    What exactly are you referring to? I do have information that the general public does not have. I've already spoken to the matter of the van I spotted in late 1992 but was apparently ignored and I was threatened with my job. (The current police leadership knows of this.) And there is other information that I know from personal knowledge and which has been shared with the police department. Is that a "cover-up" or just incompetent arrogance?

    I have no idea if someone is being "protected." Certainly it is not unheard of that there is something called police corruption. Was it evident here? You tell me.

    Who gains? If we rule out randomness and we rule out drugs (which I have done), and we rule out a serial murderer (as I have done) and we rule out a disorganized crime which this most assuredly was not, what are we left with? I do not have the data which would show the motives in crimes although I am sure it is somewhere on the internet. Certainly money is near the top of the list of all criminal motives. Here, I just found something. Look at what is at the top of the list.

    http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/111/111lect02.htm

    It seems to me the crime was obviously planned. We may also make the assumption that the girls were not expected back home that evening and showed up at or about the time the home was entered by the perpetrator or perpetrators.

    Who could have carried out such a crime in such meticulous detail that no physical evidence was left behind? Would a run-of-the-mill common criminal be able to do this and subdue the women successfully? Not likely.

    What are we left with? Connect the dots for a motive. And then who might benefit from such a crime?

    If we can believe the police, the most obvious suspects were ruled out by polygraph. Yet we know that polygraphs are neither bulletproof nor admissable in court. We have almost no clues to speak of. We have three grown women who were subdued and taken from the residence. One lone male abductor is highly unlikely to have committed such a crime with the evident perfection that this one entailed. That suggests that two or more individuals were involved; possibly three or even four. What was in it for them? Were they just along for the ride? A Manson type spree killing? In that case, the mutilated bodies were left behind. In this case there are no bodies and virtually no evidence other than the certainty that Stacy left in her underwear as her shorts were left on the bed and she could not wear Suzie's clothes. The vehicles were moved. That suggests multiple suspects. The light fixture was broken outside suggesting a possible struggle or eliminating the light source that would come shortly as it was nearing early daylight. A van was sighted with a young woman resembling Suzie was spotted and her being threatened. Could one person have done all of that? Possibly, but unlikely unless the other two were in the back of the van, either killed already or bound and gagged. And we don't even know for a certainty that a van was just used since the witnesses were unreliable, scared, or incredibly careless in reporting the sightings. One might say it was a "perfect storm."

    That's why I have said that the only way this case will be solved is if this case is taken from the Springfield Police Department and given over to an outside investigator or investigators to have "fresh eyes" look at the evidence. Otherwise, the case will never be solved unless at least one of the perpetrators finally grows a conscience. Ultimately they will receive their eternal "reward" in hell but it doesn't solve the crime here in this life. Meanwhile the living are enduring their own hell on earth. And that is unforgivable.


  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule
    I would bet my bottom dollar that if an outside, retired investigator would take a complete look at the case, it would be solved within a month or less.
    Richard, he would have to persuade someone to turn States Evidence and he would have to persuade LE to act on the information in a timely manner. 30 days is stretching it a bit. 300 days would be more appropriate.


  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken
    Richard, he would have to persuade someone to turn States Evidence and he would have to persuade LE to act on the information in a timely manner. 30 days is stretching it a bit. 300 days would be more appropriate.
    Really? I would say 30 minutes would be more like it. I'll bet he could pick up the phone and get it done if he was good at his job. I would give my right arm to see this case file. I didn't work as a police investigator but this case looks like a slam dunk to me. The time for waiting is long overdue -- some 14 years to be exact. All he needs is a taped or signed confession from just one of them and this case is effectively solved. That doesn't include conviction and execution but I think that would proceed smoothly from there.

    Who's "LE?"


  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule
    Who's "LE?"
    LE = law enforcement.


  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken
    LE = law enforcement.
    Why would it take 300 days? They've had their chance. That's why I said this needs to be turned over to a competent investigator.

    I don't want to toot my horn but I once had a case that was messed over for seven years and it landed on my desk. I solved that case in about 60 days and locked horns with one of Springfield's most well known attorneys in the process. I soon ran him off the case and got my pound of flesh and a big payday for the proper individuals. It can be done but foot dragging as has been done will never solve this case.


  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule
    All he needs is a taped or signed confession from just one of them and this case is effectively solved.
    Robert Cox stated on camera in his 1996 prison interview that it would be stupid for someone to do that. IF the retired investigator were to find the remains first; then he may be able to twist some arms to get a confession. Without remains, nobody is going to talk.


  11. #206
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    I am in Nebraska and recently a body was found that was sunken in a barrel. This particular woman was killed by her ex husband back about 23 years. After finding the remains a lot of people started recalling conversations in which this ex husband had made threats to others about this. They came forward and the DNA established it was his missing ex wife. I guess what I am saying is it jogged there memories. Turns out the guy was potentially a serial killer of prostitutes in the area. This is hard to establish because he committed suicide when he knew he was caught. You may be very correct in thinking that the bodies being found would open up the potential for a confessor.


  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken
    Robert Cox stated on camera in his 1996 prison interview that it would be stupid for someone to do that. IF the retired investigator were to find the remains first; then he may be able to twist some arms to get a confession. Without remains, nobody is going to talk.
    I don't want to make this symplistic but it works like this. An investigation begins with the assumption that everyone is a suspect and it boils down to a process of elimination. Once the list of suspects is determined then it continues to be whittled down still further until the most likely ones are ascertained. The number will be quite small. And they had to have the motive, the means, and the opportunity. Who meets that criteria?

    At some point in the investigation the suspects will be put on notice that they are not off the hook or they will realize it themselves. And then the focus will remain on them as long as it takes. I see nothing wrong with the PD simply telling the public that they have a suspect(s) but they can't convict on the available evidence. In recent years, they have used the term "person of interest" to define such a person. It's the ultimate way of applying pressure and alerting the public to provide leads.

    "Many law enforcement officials now use the vague term person of interest to describe people caught up in their investigations. That poses a challenge for journalists, who must try to convey a situation accurately without unfairly tarring someone’s reputation."

    http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...s&ct=clnk&cd=3

    At this point in time we don't even know if the police department even has a "person of interest" in mind, much less actual suspects.


  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule
    I don't want to make this symplistic but it works like this. An investigation begins with the assumption that everyone is a suspect and it boils down to a process of elimination.
    Symplistic? (sic).

    Without remains, nobody will talk...it's quite simple.


  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken
    Symplistic? (sic).

    Without remains, nobody will talk...it's quite simple.
    Contrary to popular thought, it is not necessary to have a body to prove capital murder. We may safely assume that the women are deceased and were murdered. If the evidence, circumstantial though it may be, it is still possible to convict and execute these criminals.
    It is true that failure to find the bodies is an obstacle, it is not an insurmountable obstacle. But this is not the point of my posts. The point was that the case has fallen into a black hole. And this only encourages the perps to believe they have escaped prosecution. The police do no favors by failing to keep the public informed and the perps on their guard. Every day the perps should go to bed with the full knowledge that they have murdered three women and that the police are looking over their shoulder. Not a day should go by that they aren't thinking this is the day that they get caught. It is said that "out of mind; out of sight." This is where the case is now.


  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule
    Contrary to popular thought, it is not necessary to have a body to prove capital murder. We may safely assume that the women are deceased and were murdered.
    Yes, it's possible to prove capital murder without a body. However, regarding this case; I will have to use your catch phrase: "I'm not holding my breath". Additionally, Stacy McCall has never been legally declared dead by her family. They want to be "shown" some results.
    Last edited by Ken; 01-15-2007 at 06:18 AM. Reason: Revision


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