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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    Missouri Mule –

    Even though I tend to agree with your opinion concerning George’s Steakhouse the timeline still makes it a possibility, however remote. And I keep coming back to this comment in the News-Leader of June 8, 2003:

    “Back in 1992, three calls came in to police that the three women were seen in the early morning hours at George’s Steakhouse. The callers said they also saw three men with them.”

    “Moore wants to know who those three men are, and if they could be related to suspects developed in Barry County.” End quote.

    It would be interesting to know if these three witnesses who called in 1992 were all employees of George’s Steakhouse at the time or if some were also customers at that hour.
    So far as I know the only identified witness was the waitress (seen on "48 hours.") However, I seem to recall that none of the other restaurant personnel could corroborate her story. I seem to recall that the waitress said that Suzie was being argumentative or something to that effect and that Sherrill was trying to calm her down. The three individuals were men who were said to be talking to them. That's who I believed Moore was trying to find to talk to if my recollection is correct. But as I recall, the SPD almost immediately discounted the story. I used to put a lot of credence in this story but the timeline is very thin for this to have occurred. Still it cannot positively be ruled out. If in fact there were three calls from three different people who could positively ID the women then this would be highly significant. Why wasn't this more vigorously pursued by the SPD then if the calls were credible? The SPD has never, to my knowledge, discussed this to any degree. It was just out there, left hanging to our imagination, like so many things about this case.

    What I have never understood to the present day is why the selection of the color of the van was said to be "moss green" in view of the color of the van "dirty white" that cruised the neighborhood for a full three weeks prior to the abductions. Yet it was the "moss green" van the SPD chose to put on the front lawn of the SPD for several months. The witness accounts just didn't seem very solid to me. I wouldn't have gone with it if it were up to me, or alternatively I would have put both colored vans on the lawn for all to see. To me this is potentially the most important aspect of the whole case which I won't go into here.

    There are any number of loose ends that have never been explained to my satisfaction. Trying to understand this case is like trying to describe an elephant by a blind man. Nearly impossible.


  2. #362
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    I agree, to include the sighting at George’s Steakhouse in the timeline as given is extremely tight. That’s why I would like to see if it can be eliminated.

    At 2:30 – 3:00am on a Sunday morning I can’t imagine there being a need for more than three employees at George’s Steakhouse. Probably one waitress and maybe a couple of short order cooks. The short order cooks might not even have a view to notice customers. If the three 1992 tip calls came from the employees then the possibility is there that the waitress influenced the other two as they discussed the news of the disappearance in the days following. If a couple of those tip calls came from customers present at that hour it tends to substantiate the sighting of the three women.

    I wonder if investigators asked Janelle Kirby or Mike Henson in 1992 if one or both of the girls could have been “over-served” at the party. If they were at George’s Steakhouse could this be the reason why; Suzie had been “over-served” and Sherrill was trying to rectify the situation with coffee and perhaps something to eat? It would certainly explain why Suzie was being argumentative!

    Perhaps in 2007 someone needs to ask Janelle or Mike Hanson about the condition of the girls when they left the party. Their answer might be quite different today than it was in 1992, if they were even asked.


  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    I agree, to include the sighting at George’s Steakhouse in the timeline as given is extremely tight. That’s why I would like to see if it can be eliminated.

    At 2:30 – 3:00am on a Sunday morning I can’t imagine there being a need for more than three employees at George’s Steakhouse. Probably one waitress and maybe a couple of short order cooks. The short order cooks might not even have a view to notice customers. If the three 1992 tip calls came from the employees then the possibility is there that the waitress influenced the other two as they discussed the news of the disappearance in the days following. If a couple of those tip calls came from customers present at that hour it tends to substantiate the sighting of the three women.

    I wonder if investigators asked Janelle Kirby or Mike Henson in 1992 if one or both of the girls could have been “over-served” at the party. If they were at George’s Steakhouse could this be the reason why; Suzie had been “over-served” and Sherrill was trying to rectify the situation with coffee and perhaps something to eat? It would certainly explain why Suzie was being argumentative!

    Perhaps in 2007 someone needs to ask Janelle or Mike Hanson about the condition of the girls when they left the party. Their answer might be quite different today than it was in 1992, if they were even asked.
    I believe you can catch a short glimpse of her on camera just recently where she discusses the police interrogations. She was seemingly annoyed at the repeated questions as though the police did not bother to consult with one another; or that was my take on the situation.

    Again, we don't know. The SPD doesn't tell us. We're left guessing. For all we know they were drinking Kool-Aid at the party. (The elephant again)

    If I were to make a suggestion to the SPD, it would be this. Bring in all of the witnesses to that night and reinterrogate them according to standard police procedure and see if their versions today square with what was said back then. I'd be willing to get out on a limb and say there would be some significant differences in what was said then and what was said now. And I wouldn't exclude anyone either.


  4. #364
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    I don't think any good can come from reinterviewing these people. Can any of u remember things clearly from that far back? Things get tainted with time and distorted in our minds. I was optimistic about this case at one time. But it seems to have become a circus side show with all the visions and accusations against the police. My opinion is they are dead and buried and will only be found by accident one day. Someone got away with the perfect crime here, it would be nice to know the motive however. Perhaps a deathbed confession one day will enlighten us all.


  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles_draken View Post
    I don't think any good can come from reinterviewing these people. Can any of u remember things clearly from that far back? Things get tainted with time and distorted in our minds. I was optimistic about this case at one time. But it seems to have become a circus side show with all the visions and accusations against the police. My opinion is they are dead and buried and will only be found by accident one day. Someone got away with the perfect crime here, it would be nice to know the motive however. Perhaps a deathbed confession one day will enlighten us all.
    I recall the case very well when it happened. I poured over every news item and news clipping and believed certain things at the time that I do not believe today. While memories do fade, certain things do tend to stay with us and shared memories among different people could help to refine the possibilities. In thinking over this case, I can think of only three possible scenarios that make any sense based on known facts. One such scenario has never been discussed in the news media.

    I used to work in investigations for 30 years (though not in law enforcement) and I considered myself, and was considered by others, to be pretty good at what I did. I always looked to the facts. The problem with the public is that we know too few facts but enough facts to sew confusion and conspiracy theories and the like. For example, I know that the color of the van which was likely used is in much dispute, even within the police department itself. This is not an incidental matter. It is, in my opinion, crucial to solving the case. I believe; no, I'm convinced that it was NOT moss green but a dirty white/tea stained van. Such a van was seen in the area for three weeks prior to the abductions. Such a van was seen by others in two different places quite apart from published accounts that could lead to the discovery of the remains. That is a rich topic rife with possibilities. In point of fact, I believe I know where the remains are likely to be found. That's a bold statement but I have good reasons for stating this. The police also know where this could be. They followed every other wild goose chase or so it appears. It might be time to follow the facts for a change.


  6. #366
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    Certainly today parents who furnish or condone alcohol for underage parties can get in serious trouble. In 1992 everyone just sort of looked the other way. I am quite sure that Janelle Kirby, Mike Henson or anyone else involved in the party would not have volunteered the fact had someone been “over-served”. If asked the question, they might have been deceptive in order to protect the reputation of the girls, and others present at the party. As adults now and if they thought it might help close some loop-holes and solve what has happened to their friends they might be truthful, if asked.

    The three men the tipster’s said were talking with the three women at George’s might have just seen the situation for what it was, and thought they were in for an “easy pickup” at that time of morning. If true it doesn’t mean that they were involved in the disappearance in any way. I would have hoped that after the story in the News-Leader of June 8, 2003 they would have come forward. If they are out there somewhere perhaps they are protecting the fact that they are married and weren’t at a business meeting, as they told their wives.

    I have seen the partial interview clip of Janelle that you mention. I don’t get much out of those.

    I hope to get a better feel for the waitress and the alleged sighting at George’s from the 48 Hour tape.


  7. #367
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    [quote=Missouri Mule;1557930] I know that the color of the van which was likely used is in much dispute, even within the police department itself. This is not an incidental matter. It is, in my opinion, crucial to solving the case. I believe; no, I'm convinced that it was NOT moss green but a dirty white/tea stained van. Such a van was seen in the area for three weeks prior to the abductions. Such a van was seen by others in two different places quite apart from published accounts that could lead to the discovery of the remains.

    Let’s put together a time line concerning sightings of the Dodge Van. Please add in chronological order any witness sightings of the van that you have documentation for and list the source:

    DODGE VAN

    June 7, 1992 AM – (MOSS GREEN). Woman sitting on porch in east Springfield didn’t report sighting to police for several days. Police were already working other sightings of DARK BLUE and dirty BROWN vans. NEWS-LEADER June 9, 2002.

    June 7, 1992 PM– Man reports seeing van in grocery parking lot, jots down license number but later discards note. NEWS-LEADER June 9, 2002.

    June 16, 1992 – (MOSS GREEN). Police release photo of Dodge van similar to one seen near Levitt residence on the morning of June 7. Police are obviously referring to the early morning sighting by the “porch lady”. Official Time Line, NEWS-LEADER June 3, 2002, June 7, 2007.


  8. #368
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    [quote=Hurricane;1559025]
    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    I know that the color of the van which was likely used is in much dispute, even within the police department itself. This is not an incidental matter. It is, in my opinion, crucial to solving the case. I believe; no, I'm convinced that it was NOT moss green but a dirty white/tea stained van. Such a van was seen in the area for three weeks prior to the abductions. Such a van was seen by others in two different places quite apart from published accounts that could lead to the discovery of the remains.

    Let’s put together a time line concerning sightings of the Dodge Van. Please add in chronological order any witness sightings of the van that you have documentation for and list the source:

    DODGE VAN

    June 7, 1992 AM – (MOSS GREEN). Woman sitting on porch in east Springfield didn’t report sighting to police for several days. Police were already working other sightings of DARK BLUE and dirty BROWN vans. NEWS-LEADER June 9, 2002.

    June 7, 1992 PM– Man reports seeing van in grocery parking lot, jots down license number but later discards note. NEWS-LEADER June 9, 2002.

    June 16, 1992 – (MOSS GREEN). Police release photo of Dodge van similar to one seen near Levitt residence on the morning of June 7. Police are obviously referring to the early morning sighting by the “porch lady”. Official Time Line, NEWS-LEADER June 3, 2002, June 7, 2007.
    Check my post #289. I do not view the "moss green" sightings as credible. If there ever was such a van, it was a decoy. The actual van was almost certainly dirty white/tea stained. And this is not an insignificant matter which I am not prepared to go into here. And it is a crucial part of the puzzle that if followed by the authorities could unravel this case and lead to the discovery of the remains.


  9. #369
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    DODGE VAN

    June 3 & 4, 1992 – Witnesses saw a van parked at a dentist’s office near the Levitt home. Color unknown or not defined. TULSA WORLD August 7, 1992.

    June 7, 1992 4:30am – (BROWN 1964-70 Dodge van). A witness describes seeing just such a windowless van with a rusted bottom within a block of the residence. It has not been seen since. TULSA WORLD August 7, 1992.

    June 7, 1992 AM – (MOSS GREEN). Witness reported that a dirty WHITE van which was later painted MOSS GREEN was seen during early daylight of June 7th. It has not been seen since. KANSAS CITY STAR June 17, 1992.

    June 7, 1992 AM – (MOSS GREEN). Woman sitting on porch in east Springfield didn’t report sighting to police for several days. Police were already working other sightings of DARK BLUE and dirty BROWN vans. NEWS-LEADER June 9, 2002.

    June 7, 1992 PM– Man reports seeing van in grocery parking lot, jots down license number but later discards note. NEWS-LEADER June 9, 2002.

    June 16, 1992 – (MOSS GREEN). Police release photo of Dodge van similar to one seen near Levitt residence on the morning of June 7. Police are obviously referring to the early morning sighting by the “porch lady”. Official Time Line, NEWS-LEADER June 3, 2002, June 7, 2007.

    June 17, 1992 – (dirty WHITE). This tip was reported early in the investigation but actual date has been lost. Former neighbors of Levitt witnessed a dirty WHITE van driven by 25-35 yr old white male with prominent sideburns and a mane of brown hair cruising the neighborhood for up to three weeks prior to the disappearance. It has not been seen since. KANSAS CITY STAR June 17, 1992.


    Can anyone else help add to the time line?


  10. #370
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    Dodge Van

    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    I know of credible witnesses who may very well have seen the original white van. But the police are too "busy" to interview them.

    Can you go into any detail on this?


  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    DODGE VAN

    June 3 & 4, 1992 – Witnesses saw a van parked at a dentist’s office near the Levitt home. Color unknown or not defined. TULSA WORLD August 7, 1992.

    June 7, 1992 4:30am – (BROWN 1964-70 Dodge van). A witness describes seeing just such a windowless van with a rusted bottom within a block of the residence. It has not been seen since. TULSA WORLD August 7, 1992.

    June 7, 1992 AM – (MOSS GREEN). Witness reported that a dirty WHITE van which was later painted MOSS GREEN was seen during early daylight of June 7th. It has not been seen since. KANSAS CITY STAR June 17, 1992.

    June 7, 1992 AM – (MOSS GREEN). Woman sitting on porch in east Springfield didn’t report sighting to police for several days. Police were already working other sightings of DARK BLUE and dirty BROWN vans. NEWS-LEADER June 9, 2002.

    June 7, 1992 PM– Man reports seeing van in grocery parking lot, jots down license number but later discards note. NEWS-LEADER June 9, 2002.

    June 16, 1992 – (MOSS GREEN). Police release photo of Dodge van similar to one seen near Levitt residence on the morning of June 7. Police are obviously referring to the early morning sighting by the “porch lady”. Official Time Line, NEWS-LEADER June 3, 2002, June 7, 2007.

    June 17, 1992 – (dirty WHITE). This tip was reported early in the investigation but actual date has been lost. Former neighbors of Levitt witnessed a dirty WHITE van driven by 25-35 yr old white male with prominent sideburns and a mane of brown hair cruising the neighborhood for up to three weeks prior to the disappearance. It has not been seen since. KANSAS CITY STAR June 17, 1992.


    Can anyone else help add to the time line?
    How could anyone conclude the same "dirty white"van had been repainted "moss green." That's a leap I'm not prepared to make.

    In the above post it makes reference to a dark blue van. I saw such a van and reported it to the SPD in October, 1992. They did not seem particularly interested.

    In point of fact, it is my view that the SPD is not particularly interested in solving the case. They claim they are but their actions speak otherwise. They would have us believe that at least 5,300 leads, tips and clues have ALL turned out to be bogus. I find that extraordinarily difficult to believe. And furthermore I have very good reason to believe they failed to interview all the witnesses (and character witnesses) who could have provided valuable information. I know this for a fact from personal knowledge.


  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    Can you go into any detail on this?
    No, I cannot. But the SPD have this information at their beck and call should they choose to avail themselves.


  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    And I also think that two vans were involved; one that left town immediately with the women and a second one as a decoy to confuse the investigation. The most credible account was that of the dirty white van that cruised the neighborhood some three weeks prior to the abduction. But instead we get this official version of a "moss green" van business and a replica was parked on the SPD grounds for several months. I think the whole business of the moss green van was just part of a deception to throw sand in the investigator's eyes and confuse and befuddle the public. The timeline simply makes no sense for that van to have surfaced around the time when it should have been long gone. That has nagged at me for 15 years. There had to be two vans.
    I think it is probably a safe assumption that the primary van was dirty white, which could possibly appear to be an older pale moss green under certain light conditions. Certainly not a green like British Racing Green! Do you think the decoy van was dark blue then?

    Did you see the dark blue van just a short time before you reported it in Oct. 1992 or earlier in the summer?

    I'll try next week to get to a resource library to look for some of those early daily newspaper reports that reported the van as dirty white.


  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    I think it is probably a safe assumption that the primary van was dirty white, which could possibly appear to be an older pale moss green under certain light conditions. Certainly not a green like British Racing Green! Do you think the decoy van was dark blue then?

    Did you see the dark blue van just a short time before you reported it in Oct. 1992 or earlier in the summer?

    I'll try next week to get to a resource library to look for some of those early daily newspaper reports that reported the van as dirty white.
    I reported the dark blue van immediately to a patrol officer who came along as I was letting my wife out of the car. He took off in hot pursuit. Subsequently I received information as to its owner and address which I wanted to provide this officer. When I called down to the police station, one might say that it was an unfriendly environment that greeted the news. For the record this van was the Dodge A108 long bed, windowless work van. One can still find these around, even on internet auction sites bringing some handsome prices.

    The dark blue van was later seen at the Springfield City Library. I looked it over carefully and although it was dark blue it was originally white but the paint did not appear to be new paint as it appeared to me the morning I first saw it. On that date it did appear to be freshly painted. What was particularly interesting in addition to the van was that a man meeting the description of the so-called "transient" was seen at or about the same time walking north on Boonville. I did not see that person but a person who had previously seen his actual mug shot seemed certain it was him. When that information reached the police station it too was greeted with less than enthusiasm. Essentially I was told to take a long walk off a short pier. So much for citizen involvement.

    My own personal view is that the van which took the women was the dirty white/tea stained colored van and that IF there was a second van it was purely and deliberately a decoy. There was no credible reason why that van would have been seen in the open daylight that day. The first impulse of the abductors would have been to hightail it out of "Dodge" and not to stick around acting suspicious on that day of all days with all the news coverage that was to follow. And I'm very dubious about the eyewitness testimony of that fabled "moss green" van. In short, I doubt if it even or ever existed. But if it did, it was a decoy van.


  15. #375
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    Decoy van? Do u think more than one person could keep their mouth shut about this huge of a case all these years? I seriously doubt there was a lot of planning involved with this. My feeling is that it was a quick decision and they were all three probably dead within hours of being taken. One person with a gun could quietly load up three women in the middle of the night and disappear. I don't know if these van sightings had anything to do with it, but people tend to see and remember what they want. Eyewitness accounts after a certain time period are pretty much worthless. I don't believe the restaraunt sighting is valid either. I certainly don't believe they are buried in a parking garage. This was all quickly done and the perpetrator, yes I said perpetrator, as I don't think it was a multiple perp crime, got out of town quickly and disposed of these women for whatever reason.


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