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Thread: Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child**REVISIT FOR READING*

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    Unhappy Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child**REVISIT FOR READING*

    http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/no...7435021&ref=nf

    Shocking developments: 1,000 of pages of documents just released in the death penalty case against Casey Anthony, the mother accused of murdering her child last year. In a stunning development, the discovery reveals FBI e-mails regarding a picture taken of a large stain in the trunk of Casey Anthony’s car - an Agent writing that the stain appears to be the outline of a silhouette of a child in the fetal position. The photo allegedly shows what may be the back, bottom and legs of a small child! Is the stain in the trunk of tot mom’s car the outline of little Caylee’s body?
    !~*Mar*~!





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    This makes perfect sense....aww Caylee girl. I hope you just went to sleep and never felt a thing, never knew any terror or pain.
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    This is both good and bad.

    Good because it is quite likely true. The child was laying in the trunk in a bag in a fetal position, that was the contact with the carpet and that is what would have been stained by fluid leakage.

    Bad because it is highly subjective, and only is noticeable when viewed by computer, not flat photo prints. This sort of reeks of overreaching and looking for paterns in clouds and inkblots. If pushed it is something that a jury may take the wrong way.

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    I posted this info in the 'Pontiac' thread and reposting here for those who did not see it.



    http://www.clickorlando.com/health/21139699/detail.html

    The e-mail was addressed to Erin P. Martin of the FBI, and can be found on page 34 of this document.

    But two days later, on Oct. 2, FBI supervisory photographic technologist Richard W. Vorder Bruegge told Cowan the lab would not speculate about what left the image: "Others can draw their own conclusions about that."

    The stain Cowan observed was found not to be caused by any biological liquid, such as blood or fluids from decomposition. No DNA was found in the stain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmony2 View Post
    I posted this info in the 'Pontiac' thread and reposting here for those who did not see it.



    http://www.clickorlando.com/health/21139699/detail.html
    Quote:
    The e-mail was addressed to Erin P. Martin of the FBI, and can be found on page 34 of this document.

    But two days later, on Oct. 2, FBI supervisory photographic technologist Richard W. Vorder Bruegge told Cowan the lab would not speculate about what left the image: "Others can draw their own conclusions about that."

    The stain Cowan observed was found not to be caused by any biological liquid, such as blood or fluids from decomposition. No DNA was found in the stain


    Then I wonder what in God's name caused the image!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by essies View Post
    Quote:
    The e-mail was addressed to Erin P. Martin of the FBI, and can be found on page 34 of this document.

    But two days later, on Oct. 2, FBI supervisory photographic technologist Richard W. Vorder Bruegge told Cowan the lab would not speculate about what left the image: "Others can draw their own conclusions about that."

    The stain Cowan observed was found not to be caused by any biological liquid, such as blood or fluids from decomposition. No DNA was found in the stain


    Then I wonder what in God's name caused the image!!
    We will have to wait and see (patience is not one of my virtues, <sigh>) Clickorlando may have interpreted the results incorrectly.
    Last edited by Harmony2; 09-29-2009 at 03:40 PM.

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    Well, if it wasn't blood, decomp, or any biological substance containing DNA, I wonder what the heck it was? Hmmm. I wonder if anyone knows what effect, if any, chloroform might have on carpet fibers if used in a large quantity?




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    Quote Originally Posted by essies View Post
    Quote:
    The e-mail was addressed to Erin P. Martin of the FBI, and can be found on page 34 of this document.

    But two days later, on Oct. 2, FBI supervisory photographic technologist Richard W. Vorder Bruegge told Cowan the lab would not speculate about what left the image: "Others can draw their own conclusions about that."

    The stain Cowan observed was found not to be caused by any biological liquid, such as blood or fluids from decomposition. No DNA was found in the stain


    Then I wonder what in God's name caused the image!!
    I have read the comments by Richard Bruegge, but where are you finding in the documents released that there was no DNA in that impression/stain?
    All I see is a report from 'Click Orlando' which states that as fact...
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    Could the image be like furniture marks in the carpet (just impressions)? I doubt the trunk had carpet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
    Could the image be like furniture marks in the carpet (just impressions)? I doubt the trunk had carpet.
    You mean, you think the carpeting, or whatever you want to call it, had been removed? I can't recall ever seeing a car that didn't have some type of carpeting in the trunk. You know, like that felt stuff, at least.

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    So what could cause something like this? I mean, short of being soaking wet (from water, or some other substance), it seems impossible to me that the outline of a body would materialize, since it's been noted that it was not caused by any body fluids....unless...the carpet of the car had recently been treated with something.
    Last edited by oh_gal; 09-29-2009 at 03:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oh_gal View Post
    Would this be caused by the body breaking down after death?
    That would produce decomp fluid, which would contain DNA, which they say wasn't found. Huh...wonder what the stain was?? It had to be light, hard to see if you can't see it in a flat photo, only on a computer screen. And it was viewed in the trunk with an ALS, so the stain was light. But I also remember George's statement saying that there was a basketball sized stain, which would mean that he could see it. And it was initially speculated to be blood, which would be dark. So which is it? was there more than one stain? Totally thrown off here. I can't believe that it's not biological fluid of some sort. Even if there is no outline of a child's form in there, what was the stain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah7855 View Post
    That would produce decomp fluid, which would contain DNA, which they say wasn't found. Huh...wonder what the stain was?? It had to be light, hard to see if you can't see it in a flat photo, only on a computer screen. And it was viewed in the trunk with an ALS, so the stain was light. But I also remember George's statement saying that there was a basketball sized stain, which would mean that he could see it. And it was initially speculated to be blood, which would be dark. So which is it? was there more than one stain? Totally thrown off here. I can't believe that it's not biological fluid of some sort. Even if there is no outline of a child's form in there, what was the stain?
    The presence of decomp fluid would NOT necessarily mean that usable DNA could be extracted. So a negative test for DNA does not necessarily mean there was no decomp fluid. I seem to recall one of the FBI lab notes says they warned the SA they probably wouldn't be able to do a successful DNA test on the stain.

    BTW, does anyone have a link to a document even saying there was a negative test for DNA on the stain? I don't remember seeing it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by oh_gal View Post
    So what could cause something like this? I mean, short of being soaking wet (from water, or some other substance), it seems impossible to me that the outline of a body would materialize, since it's been noted that it was not caused by any body fluids....unless...the carpet of the car had recently been treated with something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oh_gal View Post
    So what could cause something like this? I mean, short of being soaking wet (from water, or some other substance), it seems impossible to me that the outline of a body would materialize, since it's been noted that it was not caused by any body fluids....unless...the carpet of the car had recently been treated with something.
    This is the same fbi lab tech that imagined an image on the duct tape.

    This is the same fbi lab tech that is imagining an image of a child in a stain.

    This is the same fbi lab tech that got her dna on the duct tape and contaminating the evidence.

    Is she just out of school or what?

    If I am wrong please correct me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    This is the same fbi lab tech that imagined an image on the duct tape.

    This is the same fbi lab tech that is imagining an image of a child in a stain.

    This is the same fbi lab tech that got her dna on the duct tape and contaminating the evidence.

    Is she just out of school or what?

    If I am wrong please correct me.
    If guess the entire FBI are incompetent. We shall see soon enough.
    Either that or they have some VERY convincing evidence in order to get the Death Penalty back on the table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZsaZsa View Post
    If guess the entire FBI are incompetent. We shall see soon enough.
    Either that or they have some VERY convincing evidence in order to get the Death Penalty back on the table.
    I was wrong about this. sorry

    I felt more comfortable with it only being one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    This is the same fbi lab tech that imagined an image on the duct tape.

    This is the same fbi lab tech that is imagining an image of a child in a stain.

    This is the same fbi lab tech that got her dna on the duct tape and contaminating the evidence.

    Is she just out of school or what?

    If I am wrong please correct me.
    Yes, you are wrong. First, the person who talked about the impression in the trunk liner in her email is not the same one who noticed the heart shape on the duct tape. Second, there is no reason to believe either of these things was "imagined."

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
    Yes, you are wrong. First, the person who talked about the impression in the trunk liner in her email is not the same one who noticed the heart shape on the duct tape. Second, there is no reason to believe either of these things was "imagined."
    She said stain, not impression. Her name is Karen B Cowan. I will check to see if she is the same person. here is the link where she said stain.
    http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21151220/detail.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    She said stain, not impression. Her name is Karen B Cowan. I will check to see if she is the same person. here is the link where she said stain.
    http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21151220/detail.html
    There is a stain and an impression. The stain was reported by George and LE also; it sounds like the stain is very obvious. The impression is an outline left by the weight of an object/body on the trunk liner. Like if you left a heavy box in your trunk--that would leave an impression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    This is the same fbi lab tech that imagined an image on the duct tape.

    This is the same fbi lab tech that is imagining an image of a child in a stain.

    This is the same fbi lab tech that got her dna on the duct tape and contaminating the evidence.

    Is she just out of school or what?

    If I am wrong please correct me.
    I can't decide if you are serious or if you just like to try to get everyone riled up but.....

    These were different techs.

    If someone thinks that they can see the outline then I am not going to say that they did or did not until I can see the same image for myself but I am not going to run them over either.

    As far as I know the image on the duct tape was not imagined. I am pretty sure that it was noted by Dr. G as well but I am sure someone else will correct me if I am wrong.

    When you have humans working rather than machines, you run the risk of a human making a mistake. It happens since they are after all humans and not perfect. That is why they have tech DNA on hand. Just because the tech's DNA was found on the tape does not mean that it is ruined. If there was other DNA they would have been able to separate it if needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 100%Agave View Post
    I can't decide if you are serious or if you just like to try to get everyone riled up but.....

    These were different techs.

    If someone thinks that they can see the outline then I am not going to say that they did or did not until I can see the same image for myself but I am not going to run them over either.

    As far as I know the image on the duct tape was not imagined. I am pretty sure that it was noted by Dr. G as well but I am sure someone else will correct me if I am wrong.

    When you have humans working rather than machines, you run the risk of a human making a mistake. It happens since they are after all humans and not perfect. That is why they have tech DNA on hand. Just because the tech's DNA was found on the tape does not mean that it is ruined. If there was other DNA they would have been able to separate it if needed.

    ther_beatingA_Dead::ban me:
    Do you have a link to Dr G report stating that?

    Yes people make mistakes, but these are professionals and this evidence may be used in court.

    Do you know the names of each tech that made these statements? I will look myself too. thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    Do you have a link to Dr G report stating that?

    Yes people make mistakes, but these are professionals and this evidence may be used in court.

    Do you know the names of each tech that made these statements? I will look myself too. thanks
    Dr. G did not report the heart outline. Just the one FBI tech (E. Fontaine, I believe).

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    Do you have a link to Dr G report stating that?

    Yes people make mistakes, but these are professionals and this evidence may be used in court.

    Do you know the names of each tech that made these statements? I will look myself too. thanks
    Sorry....my bad...I see that AZLawyer set me straight on Dr. G.

    Let me know what you find.
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    Do you have a link to Dr G report stating that?

    Yes people make mistakes, but these are professionals and this evidence may be used in court.

    Do you know the names of each tech that made these statements? I will look myself too. thanks
    We have all the reports that have been released, to date.

    You are welcome to search them, yourself, to find your answers.

    Thanks!
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