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Thread: Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child**REVISIT FOR READING*

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    You are not required to think it is a human body!
    iF you conclude it is food, then it is food in your opinion.
    But,here is a better thread for your debate. If you do a title search on decomp that will turn up some better threads for this discussion. thanks.

    In the trunk 2.6 days - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    Now let's move on everyone. If you think it is decomp and don't want to go around in circles, then don't.
    Thank you I will stop. I've seen enough. Thank you for the thread.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    How would they convince the jury? Will they put them through some kind of test? That would help me.

    Rotten cooked food vs rotten raw food. I think of rotten food as rotten raw food, which is a dead body.

    Maybe you are right and this wont even be contested at trial.

    Are you stating it as fact that humans can tell the difference in the smell of a decomposing human as opposed to a decomposed animal?
    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, acts like a duck the Jury will be able to confidently come to the conclusion that it most definitely was a duck. Ask Scott Peterson.

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  4. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by mimimama5 View Post
    Ok you scared me into learning more than i ever wanted to know about salami!! I read your link, as best as I could understand it anyhow, and thought that moat generally salami is a cured meat that can be hardened and sold room temperature even. SOOO, I found this link ( my google search is just a mixed bag of yuck with this case ) http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5161213_salami-made.html > basically, what I am trying to imply here is that I doubt that anyone TL included was purchasing high quality, made fresh from the butcher salami. I was concerned with your link, I hate giving the defense any angle on which to spin good evidence. So I found one thats suits me better lol. Thanks for it doing legwork! You Rock!
    There is a big difference between fresh from the butcher and the processed, preservative-laden stuff you get in the cold meat section from Publix. No maggots were congregating in the empty salami package.

    There is also a very good chance that the small flies found around the paper toweling substance were "coffin flies". That would be significant.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4081667&postcount=7"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2009.08.07 Emails between Oak Ridge and OCSO[/ame]

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  6. #154
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    We haven't seen the insect reports yet either. Much research was done on that. That has been a proven science for hundreds of years.

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  8. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by strach304 View Post
    I thought you had not smelled a dead body?
    I have not smelled a dead human body. that is why i am asking all these questions. I am finding that there are several people in here who have.

    Maybe that is why so many people are convinced.

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  10. #156
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    The smell of death is pretty awful...vile...putrid. Early in the investigation reference was made to the chemicals involved in the decomp process and even then a child is different from an adult, just as an animal is different from a human. This is partly because of what we ingest over a lifetime. Folks that deal with that on a regular basis (coronors and such) probably could ID the odor as human vs. animal. Could the average joe tell the difference by odor alone? IDK-Coming from an enclosed environment like the hot trunk of a car would make the scent overwhelmingly nauseating, I would not know which creature had expired (and I have smelled human decomp) but I would know it wasn't garbage!

  11. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I have not smelled a dead human body. that is why i am asking all these questions. I am finding that there are several people in here who have.

    Maybe that is why so many people are convinced.
    I've had raw chicken and raw pork and yes is does smell like a decomposing body. I've managed and owned restaurants and if the city misses a week on the dumpster, it is unbearable.

    I will research this human decomposition smell . I wont ask anyone to give me a link to this anymore. sorry
    Reply With Quote

    This indicates you have. ???

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  13. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by strach304 View Post
    We haven't seen the insect reports yet either. Much research was done on that. That has been a proven science for hundreds of years.
    I'm curious about what the entomologist has to say.

    Dr. Neal Haskell is the most renowned in his field. He's credited with solving another case where a body was found in a garbage can with her mouth and nose tied up and covered with plastic wrap. The victim's daughter had been telling people the victim was with a relative in another state.

    "Coffin flies" instead of "blow flies" were the evidence that proved the victim had been put into the garbage can while she was either still alive or VERY soon after death.

    http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../16522550.html
    Last edited by Jolynna; 09-30-2009 at 11:56 AM.

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  15. #159
    Quote from CNN "You can make out what may be the back, bottom, and legs most clearly," Cowan said in the message. "The image is best viewed on a computer screen, rather than a printout, but several of us can see this image and agree there is good chance we are seeing something significant."

    This absoultely confirms in my mind that BOTH Cindy and George Anthony should be charged with obstruction of justice for trying to cover for their daughter in the murder of Caylee. George was a cop for God's sake and he didn't see what was according to the quote above "You can make out what may be the back, bottom, and legs most clearly"

    CHARGE GEORGE AND CINDY. THESE TWO PARENTS ARE JUST AS GUILTY IN THIS AS CASEY IS. CAYLEE NEVER STOOD A CHANGE IN THIS DYSFUNCTIONAL ABSURD DISTURBED FAMILY.


  16. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    How would they convince the jury? Will they put them through some kind of test? That would help me.

    Rotten cooked food vs rotten raw food. I think of rotten food as rotten raw food, which is a dead body.

    Maybe you are right and this wont even be contested at trial.

    Are you stating it as fact that humans can tell the difference in the smell of a decomposing human as opposed to a decomposed animal?
    Rotten raw food does not equal a dead human body. There is a distinct difference in the biological signature of the fluids present in each of them.

    And I have not had the misfortune to have smelled a dead human body, but many here have and they have repeatedly stated that YES---there is a difference. A noticeable difference. I believe them.

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  18. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticthyme View Post
    If you think about how a dog "marks" and identifies territory, they ( and animals) have much more heightened senses than humans. Recall how a dog or cat can travel all across the country to return to their "home." Humans can not do that. Aside from the fact that cadaver dogs are highly & specifically trained. The defense will push junk science. They and the Anthony team have no other options than to try and discredit anything the SA has. They have no evidence to support Casey's innocence.
    I am a dog person. I have lived w/ dogs all my life and have always been amazed at their ability w/ scents. I remember once we had a poodle mix who ratted out my father. He had been given a 2 pound box of chocolates for a gift. He was not supposed to have it--diabetes. It was wrapped in the packaging, wrapped in gift wrap, and then he put it into a plastic bag and wrapped it up. One day, I noticed my little dog going crazy near a piece of furniture, she had sniffed something out. Buried under a mountain of other things, was the box of chocolate that had been "carefully" wrapped for his use and secrecy. I laughed myself silly. My father was so mad at that dog!

    Sorry--OT. Your post just brought back that memory of my amazing little mutt who "told" on my father.

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  20. #162
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    Quoting myself here, its now part of a set:

    Quote Originally Posted by treeseeker View Post
    Forming a theory - Baquacil is proprietary, and I'm not sure if this patent is saying it contains copper. The date of the patent application I linked is dated 1996. IIRC, the A's used Baquacil in their pool, instead of chlorine. Could this explain the luminol glow?


    Snipped from Wiki:
    Drawbacks
    Luminol has some drawbacks that may limit its use in a crime scene investigation:

    Luminol chemiluminescence can also be triggered by copper or copper-containing alloys, horseradish, and certain bleaches[citation needed]; and, as a result, if a crime scene is thoroughly cleaned with a bleach solution[specify], residual bleach will cause the entire crime scene to produce the typical blue glow, effectively camouflaging any organic evidence, such as blood.
    Luminol will also detect the small amounts of blood present in urine and it can be distorted if animal blood is present in the room that is being tested.
    Luminol reacts with fecal matter, causing the same glow as if it were blood.
    Luminol's presence may prevent other tests from being performed on a piece of evidence. However, it has been shown that DNA can be successfully extracted from samples treated with luminol reagent.[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminol


    Snipped from freepatentsonline:
    The invention discloses a composition and method for the enhancement of polyguanide based water sanitizing systems and for conversion of such systems to alternative water sanitizing systems if desired. The method includes the addition of an enhancing or conversion agent selected from the group consisting of a halogen salt, a Bromohydantoin and a chlorobromohydantoin in an amount to provide a concentration of approximately from 1 to 50 parts per million. Sodium borate and/or polyphosphate may also be added to the system to improve the effectiveness of the enhancing agent. The system may be converted to an alternative water sanitizing system by the addition of a sanitizing agent selected from the group consisting of chlorine, copper, silver, quaternary ammonium compounds, and polyquaternary ammonium compounds, which may be released into the water at a rate of 0.01 to 1 ounces per hour per 10,000 gallons of water for a period until conversion is complete.

    Edit to add: copper is a known anti-bacterial
    Edit to to add: link to freepatentonline http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5527506.html

    sorry about that, I guess its getting late

    The basic ingredient in Baquacil can cause DNA damage in bacteria. Can it interfere with forensic human DNA detection?

    link:
    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAPB[/ame]

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  22. #163
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    Bloodstain outline?

    What is this about a BLOODSTAIN outline in the trunk? First I ever heard of a bloodstain. Can someone please comment? The source was Fox News.

  23. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    How would they convince the jury? Will they put them through some kind of test? That would help me...
    If they are not expert witnesses they do not have to go through voir dire as they would testify to what they, themselves, observed. It is up to the trier of fact - the judge and jury - to determine how much weight to give to their observations.

    If the tow truck driver, for instance, on the stand said that in 10 years he has towed over 50 cars that had held a decaying human body and that each one of those had a distinctive smell, and when he towed Casey's car he got a whiff of that exact same smell, the trier of fact could reasonably assume that the smell was that of a decaying body without proof that the driver had ever studied the decay of the human body in any academic setting.
    Last edited by adnoid; 09-30-2009 at 03:47 PM.
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  25. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by suepitzl View Post
    What is this about a BLOODSTAIN outline in the trunk? First I ever heard of a bloodstain. Can someone please comment? The source was Fox News.


    BBM
    Nuff Said! consider the source

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  27. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticthyme View Post
    [/SIZE][/B]

    BBM
    Nuff Said! consider the source
    LMAO! So true!
    Don't murder in Kentucky! My thread here.

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthr...n+lisa+tackett



    A proud happy people, we were here long before the white man came. Stalking along meadow paths, we were used to hunting every day. The rivers gave us fish, The woods even gave us deer and other wild game. Here upon this land, we built our homes, and raised our families. Love was free and natural, as we moved swiftly among the trees. This was a country, It was here that we lived for centuries. Oh I want peace with my soul again. Oh I, I want peace with my soul again. Everyday was new love,. Our village was filled with smiling faces.

    All credit from the quote above, goes to Tom Bee, and XIT! The first Rock Native American band.

    Thank you Tom!!

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  29. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by The Eunice Burns View Post
    Rotten raw food does not equal a dead human body. There is a distinct difference in the biological signature of the fluids present in each of them.

    And I have not had the misfortune to have smelled a dead human body, but many here have and they have repeatedly stated that YES---there is a difference. A noticeable difference. I believe them.
    I think you are right. Besides, NO raw meat was found in the car trunk. No food products were found in the car trunk. There were empty cheddar cheese packets, beer & soda cans and an empty oscar meyer salami package (that was minus ANY salami). None of which smells like a dead body.

    imo
    Last edited by Jolynna; 09-30-2009 at 12:06 PM.

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  31. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by suepitzl View Post
    What is this about a BLOODSTAIN outline in the trunk? First I ever heard of a bloodstain. Can someone please comment? The source was Fox News.
    Wondering the same thing! I wonder if they are assuming thats what it is and printed it or they know something we don't know. It doesn't really say in the evidence what the stain is.

  32. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I have not smelled a dead human body. that is why i am asking all these questions. I am finding that there are several people in here who have.

    Maybe that is why so many people are convinced.
    You Betcha!

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  34. #170
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    I looked and could not see the outline?

    Could somebody here do a still picture and lightly highlight the outline of a child they think is in the trunk please?
    My eyesight is not good..need help seeing that thanks!




    #789UMCO unidentified found The victim was discovered on September 8, 2004 in the Flat Tops, White River National Forest, Garfield County, Colorado
    Estimated Date of Death: No longer than 5 years prior to discovery he left a note to "LIB"
    PLEASE HELP me find out who this unidentified person is so he can be buried rightfully near his family...


    I DO NOT TOLERATE HARASSMENT...

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  36. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
    The LE officers know the smell because they have smelled it. Same as George.

    Yes, it is a fact that the paper towels contain the same fats as a decomposing human body.

    It is also a fact that an official FBI or expert report will NEVER NEVER say "this is definitely human decomp" or anything similar. They will ALWAYS say that, of course, if something completely crazy happened (like...um...a couple of pigs playing with nail polish remover and bleach in the trunk and then dying in there) it might cause a similar chemical signature. That pig scenario wouldn't explain Caylee's hair, though. And of course the fact that Caylee was found dead also bolsters the conclusion that her dead body was in her mom's trunk. At least we've eliminated the possibility that these lab results are incorrect because Caylee is alive.

    The FBI agent was saying that she was told she couldn't say the hair was definitely from a dead body. Exactly what I said in the previous paragraph. They won't say 100%, not ever.

    The air samples are not junk science. They are fairly new science, so they will certainly be challenged by the defense, but they aren't junk science.

    You really just need to read the threads and do your own research. Or call a homicide cop. Yes, experts (which would include homicide cops and cadaver dogs) can tell the difference between these smells. Yes, their testimony regarding these things is permitted in court.
    Exactly!

    Scientists tend not to say, "This is..". They say, "Is consistent with", or "Appears to be." Or, even, "Is not excluded from."

    They do not deal in absolutes.
    Last edited by Brini; 09-30-2009 at 03:19 PM.
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  38. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    Do you have a link to Dr G report stating that?

    Yes people make mistakes, but these are professionals and this evidence may be used in court.

    Do you know the names of each tech that made these statements? I will look myself too. thanks
    We have all the reports that have been released, to date.

    You are welcome to search them, yourself, to find your answers.

    Thanks!
    Age. Fac ut gaudeam

  39. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohabi View Post
    I can't get you a link to an official report and I'm not a cop. I've smelled a decomposing human (thanks to archaic european pre-funeral practices) and I've smelled decomposing animals. They do NOT smell the same. You have to have smelled a dead human to know what one smells like. You never forget it because it doesn't compare to anything else.
    I've smelled it, too. Both scenbts, in fact.

    You recognize human decomp at once, and never forget it.

    Sometimes, you wish you could.
    Age. Fac ut gaudeam

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  41. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jayla View Post
    ITA...Virginia has a few old gold mines and I thought I would go by an area where there was a big operation early last century to see if I could get lucky....Anyway, in one of the reclaimed areas, a hunting club stockpiled all of the not so savory deer parts after dressing them there on the site-And that pile was the most pungent animal death I have smelled....In contrast to that smell, trash is absolutely nothing like it.

    The only thing that you mentioned that I worry about is the oleic/other acids on the paper towel-There was a package of salami in that trash bag, and salami breaks down in a similar manner. Salami also has those fatty peices in it (lipids), you can imagine where I am going with that....

    Link to everything you wanted to know about Salami...
    http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15474585

    ETA-Apparently, as salami "ripens," those particular fatty acids are at higher levels, similar to when a human decomposes.
    Salami would have a very different chemical signature than human decomp- no matter HOW spoiled.
    Age. Fac ut gaudeam

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  43. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I have not smelled a dead human body. that is why i am asking all these questions. I am finding that there are several people in here who have.

    Maybe that is why so many people are convinced.
    Not being snary here, but many of us have had the unfortunate experience of being exposed to a deceased body. It's not a post that many of us are willing to expand upon.

    In any case, since you are a newbie, this link will help you understand better. [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=233"]Anthony Case Resource Links, Case Calendar and Time Line Analysis Forum - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    Also using the search key within this thread helps.

    Be prepared to spend hours reading and taking notes. Even those who read them immediately after release have to go back to verify various docs.

    Patty G is the keeper ..... and a darn excellent one. There is also a thread for questions and members will help you.

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