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Thread: How Wal-Mart could play into this.........

  1. #1
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    How Wal-Mart could play into this.........

    I posted a similar posting in a wrong place. I delete my posting and hope this is better- Sorry Mods, if I am wrong again.......

    BJB, I respect your postings, and look forward to your input.

    The sentence from the FBI, of an impression of a small child in a FETAL position, really keeps ringing in my ears. So I decided to back up to there and rethink some of this....along with the TJ's story about Wal-mart on the day Caylee died.....
    I am open to any and all opinions, thoughts, info, or debunking, as to try and make sense of this..

    First- If Caylee was in a fetal position in the trunk, with tape over her mouth and wrapped around her little skull, wouldn't that mean:

    1) Caylee was alive when place in the trunk? She went into a fetal position out of fear, (maybe, from being gagged and placed into a dark trunk?
    2) A dead child would not go into a fetal position.
    3) Caylee was alive when placed it the trunk?
    Next-
    Second- Wy would one tape Caylee's mouth, and wrap the tape around her skull?
    1) I don't buy into keeping bugs out of her mouth. The murderer didn't care about the poor child, one iota.
    2) It has to be to keep her from screaming or crying out and taking a chance of passerbyers from hearing her, in the trunk.
    3) That's why several pieces were used and wrapped around the skull, so it wouldn't come off. Therefore, the taping was done while the child was alive, and done deliberately out of selfishness, and hatefulness. Also- it would not have been done in doors(like at the A's). It would have been outdoors
    Third-
    Did Caylee die-
    a) from suffocation from the heat in the trunk?
    b) from suffocation from the tape covering her nose and mouth?
    c) from chloroform?
    d) from an injection (from a needle found in a bottle at the scene)?
    e) from strangulation? *=(Out of sheer anger and being inconvienced)

    Did Caylee also have her little hands and/or feet bound? Or, did the poor little child fight, until she couldn't any longer, and curl up in a fetal position and die?
    Fourth-
    I know a part of her little shirt and pieces of a pull-up were found either on her or near her- but what about her little shorts and shoes?
    1) Did Caylee have an accident in her pants and got onto her shoes as well?
    2) Did KC change her into a pull-up and throw away her short and shoes?
    Is this why KC stated, : something like, "They haven't even found her clothes?"
    3) Did KC go to Wal-Mart to buy her another pair of shoes and pants-?
    Would love to see video of what if anything KC bought at Wal-Mart on the 16th, if that story is true- Could be very telling....What Caylee was wearing-
    4) JT claims KC was in a foul mood when leaving Wal-Mart- Did KC lose total control and beat Caylee so badly that she couldn't let anyone see the condition the child was in, and decide it was best to get rid of her?
    5) The Wal-Mart was closer to AL's apt, then to the A's house- so was KC in such a hurry to get to AL's, that this detour ticked her off, because she couldn't take Caylee there with being properly dressed?

    The whole Wal-Mart story throws a whole different light on the siuation-----

    Did KC leave Wal-Mart and go to the soccer field, where a ping/or pings were possibly recorded from, or did she go to JB Park, as she said not all was lies, and kill the child there- I don't believe it was in the open where there would be scores of people nearby, but on a field lot or at the park, there would be less chance of people around, but the tape would be used to counter that.

    The Wal-Mart story blows away GA's story, completely. GA hasn't said what took place on the morning of the 16th.


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    Quote Originally Posted by RevCrim View Post
    I posted a similar posting in a wrong place. I delete my posting and hope this is better- Sorry Mods, if I am wrong again.......

    BJB, I respect your postings, and look forward to your input.

    The sentence from the FBI, of an impression of a small child in a FETAL position, really keeps ringing in my ears. So I decided to back up to there and rethink some of this....along with the TJ's story about Wal-mart on the day Caylee died.....
    I am open to any and all opinions, thoughts, info, or debunking, as to try and make sense of this..

    First- If Caylee was in a fetal position in the trunk, with tape over her mouth and wrapped around her little skull, wouldn't that mean:

    1) Caylee was alive when place in the trunk? She went into a fetal position out of fear, (maybe, from being gagged and placed into a dark trunk?
    2) A dead child would not go into a fetal position.
    3) Caylee was alive when placed it the trunk?
    Next-
    Second- Wy would one tape Caylee's mouth, and wrap the tape around her skull?
    1) I don't buy into keeping bugs out of her mouth. The murderer didn't care about the poor child, one iota.
    2) It has to be to keep her from screaming or crying out and taking a chance of passerbyers from hearing her, in the trunk.
    3) That's why several pieces were used and wrapped around the skull, so it wouldn't come off. Therefore, the taping was done while the child was alive, and done deliberately out of selfishness, and hatefulness. Also- it would not have been done in doors(like at the A's). It would have been outdoors
    Third-
    Did Caylee die-
    a) from suffocation from the heat in the trunk?
    b) from suffocation from the tape covering her nose and mouth?
    c) from chloroform?
    d) from an injection (from a needle found in a bottle at the scene)?
    e) from strangulation? *=(Out of sheer anger and being inconvienced)

    Did Caylee also have her little hands and/or feet bound? Or, did the poor little child fight, until she couldn't any longer, and curl up in a fetal position and die?
    Fourth-
    I know a part of her little shirt and pieces of a pull-up were found either on her or near her- but what about her little shorts and shoes?
    1) Did Caylee have an accident in her pants and got onto her shoes as well?
    2) Did KC change her into a pull-up and throw away her short and shoes?
    Is this why KC stated, : something like, "They haven't even found her clothes?"
    3) Did KC go to Wal-Mart to buy her another pair of shoes and pants-?
    Would love to see video of what if anything KC bought at Wal-Mart on the 16th, if that story is true- Could be very telling....What Caylee was wearing-
    4) JT claims KC was in a foul mood when leaving Wal-Mart- Did KC lose total control and beat Caylee so badly that she couldn't let anyone see the condition the child was in, and decide it was best to get rid of her?
    5) The Wal-Mart was closer to AL's apt, then to the A's house- so was KC in such a hurry to get to AL's, that this detour ticked her off, because she couldn't take Caylee there with being properly dressed?

    The whole Wal-Mart story throws a whole different light on the siuation-----

    Did KC leave Wal-Mart and go to the soccer field, where a ping/or pings were possibly recorded from, or did she go to JB Park, as she said not all was lies, and kill the child there- I don't believe it was in the open where there would be scores of people nearby, but on a field lot or at the park, there would be less chance of people around, but the tape would be used to counter that.

    The Wal-Mart story blows away GA's story, completely. GA hasn't said what took place on the morning of the 16th.
    RC, thanks for the post--interesting questions you raised.

    A couple of points of evidence so we don't get confused: (1) the tape was not wrapped around her head, although with the longest piece being over 9 inches that would go pretty far around, (2) there was no needle found at the scene that I know of. IIRC there may have been a "syringe" but I think it was the kind you give liquid medicines with, not the kind with a needle. Hopefully someone else can give an accurate description of this item, (3) her shorts were found at the scene, but no shoes were found. We have photos of Caylee wearing both the shirt and the shorts on previous occasions, (4) I'm not sure if one of the cell towers that pinged was in a soccer field, but keep in mind that the range on the towers is large enough that we can't pin Casey down to any specific location based on the pings, (5) I believe you are correct that George did not say in his initial statement what happened the morning of the 16th, but at some point he and/or Cindy did say he had breakfast with Caylee, "normal day," etc. etc.


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    A couple of points -- 1) Recall that there were other pieces of duct tape found beside what was on the baby's face. So appears quite possible she was bound. Was it confirmed that these were, in fact, the same Henkle tape? 2) Someone suggested that there was no need to buy OTC meds at Walmart because of the virtual pharmacy available at the A's. Perhaps meds from the A's were dissolved in liquid in the bottle and given with the syringe. Don't know what the paper roll was for, if in fact that's what it was.

    There was about two hours between the time she left the A's headed toward Tony's place. It makes sense that she would have stopped someplace to shop. Sure hope the tapes are available from that day.
    Last edited by steadychick; 10-07-2009 at 01:54 PM. Reason: added thought

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    Thanks for the post- It's helpful to get the facts right...

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    The info on the duct tape is so important- other pieces being found especially.
    I wondered why Caylee didn't pull the tape off her mouth, unless her hands were bound as well. If she was unconscious or dead then there would have been no need to bind her mouth or hands. She had to have been alive when this was done, which would indicate, premeditated.


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    Maybe the gatorade and/or syringe was bought at walmart, assuming these items can be tied to the crime. Does anyone know if the records of each Walmart sales transaction for that day would still be available?

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    I also wonder if the public can request the tapes of the interior door area? As we learned the LE "will not barr the A's from requesting tapes of sightings" Wonder if that goes for anyone and everyone? Sure would love to see that survailence tape!

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    The Walmart door is shown in the tape of JT's TV interview (can't recall station). It showed him pushing the single door open. The Walmarts in my area all have the auto double doors in the front, and a single door at the front side that must be pushed open. This leads from the side parking lot, through an interior area along the front of the store where you can recycle bottles and cans, and directly to the entrance area where the carts are located inside the main entrance. So JT's claim of Caylee having to push the door open by herself could be true.

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    IIRC - all of Caylee's shoes were at home at the A's so NONE of her shoes were missing at all nor her clothes except for what she was wearing that day she went missing - but her shoes were at the A's. IS that correct?

    I have always had a mental picture of Caylee being forced into the trunk without shoes, with her mouth covered by tape and her feet bond along with her arms so that she could not kick or bang.

    I feel it was in a fit of rage of not being able to go out with Tone that night alone because CA, GA were not around to babysit, so she threw her int he trunk - simple. I have always thought of Caylee being in the trunk while KC and T walked around blockbuster and the chills it gives me to see KC so calm. I think KC didn't care if Caylee died in that trunk or not - until she had to remove her because of the smell and that was when the nightmares and cold sweats began.

    My question is - DID they drive to Blockbuster and was it in KC's car?

    Again I am not sure the stain int he trunk is of Caylee - but even so - we know she WAS in the trunka t some point and I do agree that you DO NOT put tape on a dead person's mouth. You put tape on a mouth you want forced closed to not allow screams for help.

    I know people say she placed the tape to make it look like akidnapping, but I don't think KC thinks that far in advance. She is a simple thinker a person who lives in that moment and does not think about future steps - just the now.. and she wanted to go out with Tone that night and the now was to get rid of Caylee - she didn't think about the smell - the disposal - the explaination of missing Caylee - she didn't think about those things UNTIL SHE WAS FORCED TO.

    This is how she lives her life and hopefully that life will be ended.
    Last edited by Mendara; 10-07-2009 at 02:42 PM.


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    Having worked in Wal~Mart's Loss Prevention (before it was called asset protection) back a number of years ago. I can say a couple of things. Now I've never been to this particular store but Wal~Mart being what it is tries to keep their stores pretty standard.

    Most of the exterior doors have camera's built into the frame of the door. Not to mention all the cameras placed through out the store. In most stores the only places not monitored are inside the bathroom and inside the dressing rooms other then that you can pretty much be tracked through every inch of the store (customer and employee areas). They also have multiple camera's built on the roof looking out into the parking lot and also located on the poles in the parking lot. A number of years ago Wal~Mart made it policy to place cameras out in the parking lot because customers were being robbed and Wal~Mart was getting bad press for not having camera's out there.

    Also with the newer digital systems they can easily pull up the date and time and then track Casey through the store. With the old analog CCTV system it was very hard to do this. Also the new digital system stays recorded longer. With the old analog cctv we recorded over the tapes every 30 days. Most stores in the company have been remodeled in the last 5 years so there shouldn't be to many stores that don't have digital systems now. Wal-Mart requires a remodel of all stores with in 5 to 10 years of their last remodel.

    This tracking means if Casey bought anything they could visually identify what that item was. They could also track the time she went through the register and have the "cash office" pull the receipt on that day and time. So it doesn't matter if she paid in cash, check, or credit they could find that receipt number solely based on the day/time/register#.

    Not that anything she bought there could be crucial to the case but ya never know. That and they could see her getting into her car as well after she left.


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    Thanks for your post-
    When KC left with Caylee on the 16th, without Caylee change of clothing-
    a) She intended to run to the store and return to the A's- but something set her off while out-and things took a bad turn
    b) She intended to do harm to the child and didn't need to take clothing along.

    I also agree with you that KC is impulsive and lives minute by minute, as long as things are going her way. I only believe that would change when she feels threatened that she is losing control of how she is to live, such as suddenly being thrown out of her home, on her own.

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    Great information- thanks !

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    AZlawyer- thanks for clarifying a needle and syringe for me- it's plain that I don't know one from the other-It's even eerier to me to know it was a tool used to give a child medicine- possibly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RevCrim View Post
    Thanks for your post-
    When KC left with Caylee on the 16th, without Caylee change of clothing-
    a) She intended to run to the store and return to the A's- but something set her off while out-and things took a bad turn
    b) She intended to do harm to the child and didn't need to take clothing along.

    I also agree with you that KC is impulsive and lives minute by minute, as long as things are going her way. I only believe that would change when she feels threatened that she is losing control of how she is to live, such as suddenly being thrown out of her home, on her own.

    Yes and CA was FORCING KC to take responsibility for Caylee and support herself. With no job and a serious crush on her man - Caylee had to go. There was no way around this - even though CA says she would have taken Caylee - we all know how she told her associates at work that she COULD NOT take Caylee. Tony's place could not accomodate a small child - it was uncool. So what is a girl like KC to do?

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    Okay, so we agree on this issue- therefore, KC had to leave AL's on the night of the 15th to come take care of Caylee- then after the alledged argument with her mom- she left again- Someone called her from the A's house in the morning.( Maybe, to come take care of Caylee, so GA could go to the store).
    But, thinking KC is already in a fould mood from the entire night before and the morning phone call, what would be so important for her to have to go to Wal-mart? If JT's story is true- KC was still in a foul mood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RevCrim View Post
    Thanks for your post-
    When KC left with Caylee on the 16th, without Caylee change of clothing-
    a) She intended to run to the store and return to the A's- but something set her off while out-and things took a bad turn
    b) She intended to do harm to the child and didn't need to take clothing along.

    I also agree with you that KC is impulsive and lives minute by minute, as long as things are going her way. I only believe that would change when she feels threatened that she is losing control of how she is to live, such as suddenly being thrown out of her home, on her own.
    c) She intended to transfer Caylee from her carseat in the Pontiac to the carseat in Cindy's 4Runner @ Gentiva before heading over to Tony's.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendara View Post
    IIRC - all of Caylee's shoes were at home at the A's so NONE of her shoes were missing at all nor her clothes except for what she was wearing that day she went missing - but her shoes were at the A's. IS that correct?
    *snipped*

    Thanks, Mendara. I haven't explored the "shoes" thread for the answer, but, would really, really appreciate it if anyone that is familiar w/ this point could respond...or point us to the answer. I guess we also hafta consider the source of WHO it is that is telling us that all of Caylee's shoes are accounted for IF that is the case, IYKWIM.

    While it may seem like a trival point, I contend it isn't. IMHO, IF all of Caylee's shoes are accounted for it supports - using the lettering above - it RevCrim's (b) or my (c). I'm thinking even (a) would require shoes...'cause you aren't SUPPOSED to leave a child in a car and Casey would hafta take Caylee into a store if she was running an errand.

    It also brings up a curious point IF JT saw Caylee @ Walmart 6/16...and IF Caylee's shoes were all accounted for @ G&C's...then (i) Caylee had to have been barefooted @ Walmart, or (ii) Casey had to have just bought Caylee a pair of shoes @ Walmart

    Evidence of Casey buyin' a pair of shoes @ Walmart would be her ticket to claim this was unintentional...IOW...best-case for Casey...to say she didn't MEAN for Casey to die as a result of whatever stupid thing she did IYKWIM.

    ETA: I bumped the "...shoe..." thread w/ an explanation of why...hoping to catch they eye of a WS that might not visit this thread.
    Last edited by BondJamesBond; 10-07-2009 at 04:48 PM.


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    Great post- I find it curious that if Caylee was barefooted going into Wal-mart that others would not have noticed- they have rules that no one enters without shoes-
    Or, else KC would have to have been carrying her- which according to JT, KC was not even walking near her.
    Also- the greeter would have said something to KC if they noticed a barefooted child walking in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RevCrim View Post
    Great post- I find it curious that if Caylee was barefooted going into Wal-mart that others would not have noticed- they have rules that no one enters without shoes-
    Or, else KC would have to have been carrying her- which according to JT, KC was not even walking near her.
    Also- the greeter would have said something to KC if they noticed a barefooted child walking in.

    She could have easily gotten a shopping cart out of the parking lot and put Caylee into it and then pushed her into the store. I just posted a thought about Caylee possibly having a tantrum over shoes that afternoon on the thread about the shoes. It would be an explanation for why she was shoeless (if she was) in the first place. And it might explain (not excuse) the attitude JT ascribed to Casey on her way out of Walmart. She could have still been royally pi$$ed if she had to go in and buy shoes because Caylee refused to put them on at home. It will be interesting to see.
    Last edited by TallyHo; 10-07-2009 at 06:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TallyHo View Post
    She could have easily gotten a shopping cart out of the parking lot and put Caylee into it and then pushed her into the store. I just posted a thought about Caylee possibly having a tantrum over soes that afternoon on the thread about the shoes. It would be an explanation for why she was shoeless (if she was) in the first place. And it might explain (not excuse) the attitude JT ascribed to Casey on her way out of Walmart. She could have still been royally pi$$ed if she had to go in and buy shoes because Caylee refused to put them on at home. It will be interesting to see.
    KC appeared to keep clothes in the car for both her and Caylee at one time or another. I don't remember if and when she towed Caylee over to RM or other places the backpack for Caylee was with her. I would have to go over those interviews again.

    KC buying something for Caylee? I don't think so. I also don't buy the statement from CA that Caylee's shoes and clothes were all accounted for either. Remember Caylee's bathing suit being returned after KC was arrested. Sheeze, CA lies and lies and lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countzero View Post
    KC appeared to keep clothes in the car for both her and Caylee at one time or another. I don't remember if and when she towed Caylee over to RM or other places the backpack for Caylee was with her. I would have to go over those interviews again.

    KC buying something for Caylee? I don't think so. I also don't buy the statement from CA that Caylee's shoes and clothes were all accounted for either. Remember Caylee's bathing suit being returned after KC was arrested. Sheeze, CA lies and lies and lies.
    I absolutely (!) agree that Cindy's word that no shoes were missing is not gospel. Just thinking about what a scenario might be for a shoeless Caylee in Walmart, if it happened that way.

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    DaughterAlice is offline ''I'm sorry if that sounds selfish, sweetie, but it's me! Me! Me! Me!''
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    Thanks for the good thread RevCrim. Really hard to read, but I'm sure also hard to write. Any way you slice it, it's likely that poor little Caylee suffered.

    I know it's probably all in the stickies (and I tried to look it up, but there's too much to dig through), but can anyone provide a timeline for the 16th? According pings AND witnesses (GA & the computer guy), and the Blockbuster footage, where were KC & Caylee all day - so far as we can tell?

    Also, the signifigance of the shoes . . . was it because the remains site had no shoes? Then CA claimed they were all accounted for, right? CA could very easily have lied (WHAT?HER??) or just have been plain wrong. Caylee probably had many, many pairs. Who can keep it all straight?

    My painful theory is that Caylee was put to sleep. It's only natural to remove shoes for a nap. Maybe she was given a little benedryl or cold medicine. Then the duct tape was applied to mouth . . . and nose. Not to quiet her for a little bit, but to quiet her forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BondJamesBond View Post
    c) She intended to transfer Caylee from her carseat in the Pontiac to the carseat in Cindy's 4Runner @ Gentiva before heading over to Tony's.
    I don't know...with all that we know now I don't think the two of them were talking or at least Mom wasn't talking to daughter. Do you really think Casey would have pushed her mom to babysit after "whatever happened" on Father's Day?

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    Shopping without shoes?!

    For what its worth, I live in Southern California (somewhat similar climate and casualness to Florida). I have three little kids that NEVER wear their shoes and when they HAVE to wear their shoes (going to dinner/shopping etc.), they come off in the car, under the table in the Restaurant, and so on. We often end up at Target and one child will not have even brought their shoes and we shop anyway. Granted, Target doesn't have greeters, but once inside target my OTHER kids will take off their shoes and put them in the shopping cart, and no one has ever said a word. I think it would be even easier for a toddler. Just thought I'd put it out there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frigga View Post
    For what its worth, I live in Southern California (somewhat similar climate and casualness to Florida). I have three little kids that NEVER wear their shoes and when they HAVE to wear their shoes (going to dinner/shopping etc.), they come off in the car, under the table in the Restaurant, and so on. We often end up at Target and one child will not have even brought their shoes and we shop anyway. Granted, Target doesn't have greeters, but once inside target my OTHER kids will take off their shoes and put them in the shopping cart, and no one has ever said a word. I think it would be even easier for a toddler. Just thought I'd put it out there!
    Caylee was the most over-accessorized child I have ever seen! Beads, hats, sunglasses, costumes, etc-I tend to think that perhaps she had a 2 year old temper tantrum and threw her shoes off. Perhaps KC was looking fior shoes for herself and Caylee found some she wanted-KC said NO! Temper tantrum-off come the shoes and maybe they were left in the store!!
    Who hasn't seen a child in the process of flipping out in Walmart or some other dept. store?

    "It's time to tell the story of a little girl named Caylee" Linda Drane Burdick
    The future has many names: for the fearful it's the unknown, for the reckless it's the adventure, for the pessimists it's the unattainable. For the brave, it is opportunity.

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