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Thread: 2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    In the most general terms the average American tends to believe that people are truthful. Look at KC's friends given her history. They were aware she told some lies but not were not aware that she was a thief. History of stealing from the family proves that. Friends might miss something and think they lost it and they may have. We will never know.

    The fact that people do trust others, unless they suspect foul play is involved, there is every reason to believe that anyone picked for a jury will trust the experts to provide them with the information they need to come to a conclusion. That would be from both sides.

    The fact that money would be involved, for some, would set off their "hinky meter". The duct tape is an uphill battle for defense because it clearly is what it is. There is no tissue, no blood for defense to disagree with. There is a picture of the skull with the duct tape on it. No one will need an expert to explain the picture. jmo
    That deserves an AMEN!!!
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  3. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by whiteangora View Post
    snipped and bbm
    I find it intriguing that "you are sure the defense did".
    May I ask where this certainty is coming from?
    Common sense. IMO

  4. #228
    I would like to make note that page 9637 of the docs states that q66 (duct tape on red gas can) is 2 1/2 inches long, however on page 9649 it states that q66 is 2.75 inches long. I am wondering if they are getting these q numbers mixed up, but a quarter of an inch is a big difference. It should also be noted on page 3220 they take the red metal gas can into evidence on Aug 1st and return it on Aug 13th, however no mention of any duct tape. They also state that they take 8 pictures. I know there is only one grainy black and white floating around. That being said, I believe that the q66 duct tape that they are comparing to was put on the gas can after Kc was in jail. IMO

    http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21252257/detail.html

    http://www.wftv.com/news/18530350/detail.html

  5. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I would like to make note that page 9637 of the docs states that q66 (duct tape on red gas can) is 2 1/2 inches long, however on page 9649 it states that q66 is 2.75 inches long. I am wondering if they are getting these q numbers mixed up, but a quarter of an inch is a big difference. It should also be noted on page 3220 they take the red metal gas can into evidence on Aug 1st and return it on Aug 13th, however no mention of any duct tape. They also state that they take 8 pictures. I know there is only one grainy black and white floating around. That being said, I believe that the q66 duct tape that they are comparing to was put on the gas can after Kc was in jail. IMO

    http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21252257/detail.html

    http://www.wftv.com/news/18530350/detail.html
    Hmmm. I don't believe the statement that I bolded. But am interested in who you think might have done that and why.
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  7. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    Common sense. IMO
    Thank you NTS. And that is exactly what the jury will use to determine that the duct tape on the can, posters of Caylee and at the remains site are all from the A's home. It makes more sense that they were all from the same or similiar roll from the household than to over complicate it with "what ifs" given the fact that this is not one single piece of evidence alone pointing to KC. Very damning and points right in the direction of KC without any other person who would have had the opportunity, motive and most of all physical custody of the child at the time. It's not complicated so why try to make it so. Juries are into common sense not some type of speculative theory. They like things in neat little packages that make sense. It is proven right here on this forum. jmo


  8. #231
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    I think it would be great for the prosecutor to have matching duct tape but in looking at all the evidence as a whole I think as a juror I would not need that to think she wrapped Caylee in it. So if you took that matching duct tape out of the equation and reviewed all the other evidence it would not change my mind about what happened and who I felt was responsible. There is no smoking gun but obvioulsy the grand jury did not need one to press charges as the body was not even discovered yet. MOO

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  10. #232
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    And in the end the jury will only consider what is believable regarding the duct tape. The fact that it was taped in such a way on the child's mouth to obstruct the nose and mouth is what they will see. If you did that to a live child, the child would die. That is what they will see and that is what will be in their heads. Not a pretty site and hard for defense to argue that what you are seeing means nothing. jmo

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  12. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    Thank you NTS. And that is exactly what the jury will use to determine that the duct tape on the can, posters of Caylee and at the remains site are all from the A's home. It makes more sense that they were all from the same or similiar roll from the household than to over complicate it with "what ifs" given the fact that this is not one single piece of evidence alone pointing to KC. Very damning and points right in the direction of KC without any other person who would have had the opportunity, motive and most of all physical custody of the child at the time. It's not complicated so why try to make it so. Juries are into common sense not some type of speculative theory. They like things in neat little packages that make sense. It is proven right here on this forum. jmo
    Lambchop YOU ROCK!!!!! The thanks button just wasn't enough! ITA! You said exactly what I've been thinking, only better than I could have put it in words!

    And might I add that the defense has been fighting common sense for dollar signs since this case started. If they had used common sense at all, we wouldn't be where we are NOW. The only ones using common sense has been LE and SA, and that will be shown clearly at trial.
    Last edited by Aedrys; 04-25-2010 at 12:42 PM.

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  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    Common sense. IMO
    But not a fact then? Just an opinion?

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  16. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    Common sense. IMO
    I don't think that "common sense" can be taken as a given from this defense team, since it does not seem to be to something they always practice.

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  18. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    And in the end the jury will only consider what is believable regarding the duct tape. The fact that it was taped in such a way on the child's mouth to obstruct the nose and mouth is what they will see. If you did that to a live child, the child would die. That is what they will see and that is what will be in their heads. Not a pretty site and hard for defense to argue that what you are seeing means nothing. jmo

    Lambchop most excellent post! ITA when it comes to the jury and common sense, and believability. When I review the case etc. I try to view it as if I am a prospective juror as I've been in the past and it really helps to define things as well as eliminate alot of frustration in regards speculation vs. to coming to a rational conclusion with a solid explanation. In the end it will be how the SA lays the case out before the jury. It's like you said, they do like things in neat, tidy little packages!
    Last edited by Anais; 04-25-2010 at 02:39 PM.

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  20. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by nort View Post
    I think it would be great for the prosecutor to have matching duct tape but in looking at all the evidence as a whole I think as a juror I would not need that to think she wrapped Caylee in it. So if you took that matching duct tape out of the equation and reviewed all the other evidence it would not change my mind about what happened and who I felt was responsible. There is no smoking gun but obvioulsy the grand jury did not need one to press charges as the body was not even discovered yet. MOO
    This is very true. And if there was just the duct tape with the remains that was similiar to duct tape from the house it could be a stretch. But there was more. There was the blanket which CA admits was missing so this is a little bit less of a stretch now but could be explained away very easily, true. And then we have the laundry basket (which is the same make, different model than the one in the home but this too has been reported as missing). Now there is a problem with defense because now there are at least two other items we know came from the home and that makes the duct tape more likely than not to have come from the A's household.

    We all know Henkel tape was found in the A's household. We all know that cotton under certain conditions degrades rapidly. Common sense tells us it's not a stretch to believe the duct tape on Caylee's face came from the A's household given the fact that other missing items from the home were also found at the scene. Put this all together with a mother who has lied to LE about the whereabouts of her child and it sounds like a pretty tight package to me.

    jmo

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  22. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambchop
    This is very true. And if there was just the duct tape with the remains that was similiar to duct tape from the house it could be a stretch. But there was more. There was the blanket which CA admits was missing so this is a little bit less of a stretch now but could be explained away very easily, true. And then we have the laundry basket (which is the same make, different model than the one in the home but this too has been reported as missing). Now there is a problem with defense because now there are at least two other items we know came from the home and that makes the duct tape more likely than not to have come from the A's household.

    We all know Henkel tape was found in the A's household. We all know that cotton under certain conditions degrades rapidly. Common sense tells us it's not a stretch to believe the duct tape on Caylee's face came from the A's household given the fact that other missing items from the home were also found at the scene. Put this all together with a mother who has lied to LE about the whereabouts of her child and it sounds like a pretty tight package to me.

    Yes, LC...too much evidence that connects to Inmate Anthony...

    Understand, this is why CA talking to Inmate Anthony about someone having a "key" to their home..remember during one jailhouse visit, CA asks Inmate Anthony if anyone has been in her home, Inmate Anthony responds, ma, I told you she had a key...still we will hear of this invisible person who had a key to the Anthony home...far stretch but they will try to use this with this UNK stray hair to their advantage but IMO, it won't fly...too much overwhelming evidence that points to Inmate Anthony. I do hope whoever sits on this jury does use common sense to put the totality of evidence and not just one piece...JMHO

    Justice for Caylee

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv View Post
    Yes, LC...too much evidence that connects to Inmate Anthony...

    Understand, this is why CA talking to Inmate Anthony about someone having a "key" to their home..remember during one jailhouse visit, CA asks Inmate Anthony if anyone has been in her home, Inmate Anthony responds, ma, I told you she had a key...still we will hear of this invisible person who had a key to the Anthony home...far stretch but they will try to use this with this UNK stray hair to their advantage but IMO, it won't fly...too much overwhelming evidence that points to Inmate Anthony. I do hope whoever sits on this jury does use common sense to put the totality of evidence and not just one piece...JMHO

    Justice for Caylee
    Kind of makes your "hinkymeter" go off, too, when we think about GA befriending RC. Was he planning on setting her up by giving her a key? It sounds way out there but was does not with this case?????

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  25. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveLaughLuv View Post
    Yes, LC...too much evidence that connects to Inmate Anthony...

    Understand, this is why CA talking to Inmate Anthony about someone having a "key" to their home..remember during one jailhouse visit, CA asks Inmate Anthony if anyone has been in her home, Inmate Anthony responds, ma, I told you she had a key...still we will hear of this invisible person who had a key to the Anthony home...far stretch but they will try to use this with this UNK stray hair to their advantage but IMO, it won't fly...too much overwhelming evidence that points to Inmate Anthony. I do hope whoever sits on this jury does use common sense to put the totality of evidence and not just one piece...JMHO

    Justice for Caylee
    I have to say that it would be detrimental to the defense to attempt such an explanation IMO. The invisinanny will never, ever fly. Let's be realistic is CA and GA, LA all going to get on the stand and commit perjury in regards to the invisinanny. If I were a juror I would see straight through the farce of jailhouse vidoes and how CA and Casey are so cunning and manipulative. Rather they attempt to be.

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  27. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    This is very true. And if there was just the duct tape with the remains that was similiar to duct tape from the house it could be a stretch. But there was more. There was the blanket which CA admits was missing so this is a little bit less of a stretch now but could be explained away very easily, true. And then we have the laundry basket (which is the same make, different model than the one in the home but this too has been reported as missing). Now there is a problem with defense because now there are at least two other items we know came from the home and that makes the duct tape more likely than not to have come from the A's household.

    We all know Henkel tape was found in the A's household. We all know that cotton under certain conditions degrades rapidly. Common sense tells us it's not a stretch to believe the duct tape on Caylee's face came from the A's household given the fact that other missing items from the home were also found at the scene. Put this all together with a mother who has lied to LE about the whereabouts of her child and it sounds like a pretty tight package to me.

    jmo
    BBM

    I have said all along and still believe that it will not be any one particular piece of evidence that will get her. In the end it will be the totality of it all brough together. The defense has major obsticles to overcome. I think the jury will not disregard the duct tape evidence IMO when you factor in all of the other stuff that brings it together.

    And of course there's "my daughter has been missing for the past 31 days and I've gone through other means to try and find her myself." Yes the jury will find that an extremely bitter pill to swallow once they realize the only reason Caylee was reported missing was because of the Grandparents! JMO
    Last edited by Anais; 04-26-2010 at 09:53 AM.

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  29. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    This is very true. And if there was just the duct tape with the remains that was similiar to duct tape from the house it could be a stretch. But there was more. There was the blanket which CA admits was missing so this is a little bit less of a stretch now but could be explained away very easily, true. And then we have the laundry basket (which is the same make, different model than the one in the home but this too has been reported as missing). Now there is a problem with defense because now there are at least two other items we know came from the home and that makes the duct tape more likely than not to have come from the A's household.

    We all know Henkel tape was found in the A's household. We all know that cotton under certain conditions degrades rapidly. Common sense tells us it's not a stretch to believe the duct tape on Caylee's face came from the A's household given the fact that other missing items from the home were also found at the scene. Put this all together with a mother who has lied to LE about the whereabouts of her child and it sounds like a pretty tight package to me.

    jmo
    Actually there is more to the laundry bag story. Heaven help me 'cause I can't remember the specifics, but there was a round bag, just like the one found with Caylee, that was reported by the A's as having held those playballs at one time. There may even be a picture of it. I think the info was in Cindy's and George's depositions, but not sure. IIRC, that "round" bag was reported by them to have been stored in the garage with the "rectangular" bag.

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  31. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by ExpectingUnicorns View Post
    Hmmm. I don't believe the statement that I bolded. But am interested in who you think might have done that and why.
    I do not know. I am having a hard time even speculating on this one. The problem I have is:

    Ga stating he did not put that duct tape on that can.
    Ga stating that when they returned the can on Aug 13th, it did not have duct tape on it.
    No evidence number for the duct tape on the can from the Aug 1st collection. Where is that?
    No photo from the tool shed where the can was collected. Where is that?
    No statement from Tl saying whether or not he saw duct tape on the can.
    No statement from Sb saying that he saw duct tape on the can.

    How hard is it? Just go to Tl, and ask him. Just go to Sb and ask him. Just provide the photo from Dec 11th collection with evidence in place in the shed.

    My hinky meter goes up on LE when I see these inconsistencies. Its a simple fix, just provide the photos. So, my answer is, I do not know. thanks

  32. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I do not know. I am having a hard time even speculating on this one. The problem I have is:

    Ga stating he did not put that duct tape on that can.
    Ga stating that when they returned the can on Aug 13th, it did not have duct tape on it.
    No evidence number for the duct tape on the can from the Aug 1st collection. Where is that?
    No photo from the tool shed where the can was collected. Where is that?
    No statement from Tl saying whether or not he saw duct tape on the can.
    No statement from Sb saying that he saw duct tape on the can.

    How hard is it? Just go to Tl, and ask him. Just go to Sb and ask him. Just provide the photo from Dec 11th collection with evidence in place in the shed.

    My hinky meter goes up on LE when I see these inconsistencies. Its a simple fix, just provide the photos. So, my answer is, I do not know. thanks
    BBM

    Per GA's depo, he didn't say that it was not on the can when LE returned it. He said he could not remember.

    pg. 211, lines 5-10

    http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310228/detail.html


    I keep seeing it referenced and I am drawing a blank - who is SB?

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  34. #245
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    Simon Birch?????

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  36. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by steadychick View Post
    Actually there is more to the laundry bag story. Heaven help me 'cause I can't remember the specifics, but there was a round bag, just like the one found with Caylee, that was reported by the A's as having held those playballs at one time. There may even be a picture of it. I think the info was in Cindy's and George's depositions, but not sure. IIRC, that "round" bag was reported by them to have been stored in the garage with the "rectangular" bag.
    Yep. And it's missing.

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  38. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astraea View Post
    This analysis is wonderfully put. Cotton is used in the products you aforementioned, because of its ability to withstand degradation due to water events, more so then many other materials. I would thus be lead to believe that when one adds glue to one side and a plastic coating to the other, said cotton, even a minute fraction, would be protected from the elements.
    Your reading into my comment something that isn't there actually. Do to cottons nature (capillary action) if any cotton were exposed and not protected by the glue and plastic (such as the ends) it would cause that fiber and the fibers around it to become "wet".

    In high school they do an experiment where you scratch the surface of a penny and place it in acid. The zinc in the penny will deteriorate in the acid and leave the copper jacket of the penny unharmed...thus you get a hollow penny.

    So you would have the same kind of thing going on. The cotton fiber would deteriorate as shown by the T-shirt evidence and http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/et...don_thesis.pdf

    In the items I mentioned (mop heads) cotton is not used because of it resistance to deterioration. It is used because of its absorption quality. Anyone who has used a cotton mop and left it in the bucket knows a cotton mop head will deteriorate. As joypath was saying the t-shirt was of a treated higher quality type cotton then what would be found in the tape that and there would be more cotton fiber in the t-shirt then in a 9 inch piece of duct tape.

    The pictures of the t-shirt clearly show how cotton will deteriorate when exposed to the elements. So my original statement was to show the flawed logic in thinking that the glue and plastic would "protect" the fibers....because it wont do to cottons absorption. Also cotton does not with stand degradation as shown in the study linked above and the photos of the shirt. My examples were used to show cottons capillary nature (absorption). Not exactly sure how my examples show cotton is resistant to deterioration.

    HTH

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  40. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    Simon Birch?????
    thanks LambChop

    I am embarrassed to say, I still don't know who that is. lmao


    I googled, but all I came up with was the title of a 1997 film. haha

  41. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by beach2yall View Post
    thanks LambChop

    I am embarrassed to say, I still don't know who that is. lmao


    I googled, but all I came up with was the title of a 1997 film. haha
    If it is the same person, SB was the man from the tow yard. GA had brought cans with him when he came to pick up the car. There is nothing in SB's statement about what is on the gas cans because at the time LE did not know that Caylee's face was wrapped with duct tape. Nor would TL. If statements from both were taken by LE it has not yet been released. TL or SB may not have noticed anything other than they were gas cans. jmo

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  43. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    If it is the same person, SB was the man from the tow yard. GA had brought cans with him when he came to pick up the car. There is nothing in SB's statement about what is on the gas cans because at the time LE did not know that Caylee's face was wrapped with duct tape. Nor would TL. If statements from both were taken by LE it has not yet been released. TL or SB may not have noticed anything other than they were gas cans. jmo
    Okay! Now I gotcha! I just always referred to him as the towyard guy. LOL

    Thanks for the info, LambChop!

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