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  1. #16
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    They are doing amazing things with DNA, and they may be able to get more info. I hope that they can get some way of comparing Bryan, just so they can make a match someday, whether this Doe is him or not.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.

  2. #17
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    NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    Yeah, the timing is absolutely perfect. Maybe too perfect, but I'm hoping not.
    Ambrose's story has gotten to me since the first time I read it, he seemed to be a good guy, trying to get his life together and support his little family and it ended in the worst possible way. I have hoped for a while that there would be a match, but for some reason I kept skipping over this Doe. I hadn't seen him before. I wish that we had more in the way of stats on Ambrose.
    I'm going to go see if I can find some gaptoothed dental xrays for comparison.
    I google mapped things they said
    Google Map link

    A. colorado springs - location he was at
    B. denver colorado - they said he went there. Someone said he got arrested.
    C. pueblo colorado - his truck was found there
    D. Archuleta County, Colorado - where they found Doe

    405 mi – about 8 hours 17 mins

    There's a lot I don't like about that sketch.
    For one how it says long brownish blond long hair.
    I also don't like they think they know the Doe's ancestry.

    I also looked up Eastern European - Eastern Europe is a region lying in the Eastern part of Europe. The term is highly context-dependent and there are "almost as many definitions of Eastern Europe as there are scholars of the region".[1] A related UN paper adds that "every assessment of spatial identities is essentially a social and cultural construct".[2]

    One prevailing definition describes Eastern Europe as a cultural entity: the region lying between Central Europe and Western Asia, with main characteristics consisting in Byzantine, Orthodox and limited Ottoman influences.[3][4] Another definition, considered outdated by some authors,[5][6] was created during the Cold War and used more or less synonymously with the term Eastern Bloc, including the countries that historically and geographically belong to Central Europe.[7] A third definition names the formerly Communist European states outside the Soviet Union as Eastern Europe,[8] though these countries are more commonly known as the constituents of Central and Eastern Europe.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Not sure if you tried googling the shirt. I found this post
    Not asure if you found this larger drawing link 1 Link 2

    It also says Yellow T-Shirt sz large inscribed "Lazy B Guest Ranch Fallon, Nevada"
    Brown corduroy pants sz 31 waist, 31 inseam
    WHite brief style underwear size 34 JC Penney

    Link NamUs - look under photos

    Dentals on this doe are here

    Identify Us

    Demographics and Circumstances
    Estimated Age: Adult - Pre 30
    Minimum Age: 23 years
    Maximum Age: 28 years
    Race: White
    Ethnicity: N/A
    Sex: Male
    Weight (lbs.): 0, Cannot Estimate
    Height (inch): 70, N/A
    Condition: Putrefaction

    Probable Year of Death: 1982
    Est. Postmortem Interval: 3-4 Weeks
    DNA Profile Status: Complete - Insufficient DNA for profiling
    Circumstances of Death: N/A


    another post - A month later, on Oct. 22, another rancher nearby stumbled across a dead man who had been shot twice, his body in the river, eaten by coyotes.

    Apparently, what is listed there says he was with a girl that also turned up dead.

    Good luck, I have to stop now. Hopefully something I added helped
    Last edited by KateB; 04-26-2015 at 09:33 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  3. #18
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    From what I am reading at the link I left for "another post" - this does not sound like your John Doe

    Two bodies, no names

    *Snipped..

    John Doe was wearing a tan T-shirt with the logo of Lazy B Guest Ranch, a now-defunct brothel in Fallon, Nev. The reverse showed a map of brothels in that area.

    John Doe's body is buried at Fairview Memorial Park in Albuquerque in a grave marked only by a number.

    John and Jane Doe's skulls were separated from their bodies to aid in police reconstructions shortly after the crime, ending up in storage at a museum used by the New Mexico Office of the Medical Investigator, Barter said. That office did not return messages requesting comment.

    Evidence lostMuch of the evidence connected to the case has been lost, including Jane Doe's clothing. The case file itself was missing until an Archuleta County clerk found it in an old file cabinet.

    Turf disputes over the crime, which happened on the Colorado-New Mexico border, just east of Arboles, also have slowed the investigation.

    Prosecutors in Archuleta County and Rio Arriba County, N.M., fought over jurisdiction of the case, Barter said. New Mexico State Police officers who now are retired investigated, along with the Archuleta County Sheriff's Office. Evidence was split among law enforcement in Archuleta County, Rio Arriba County and state investigators in Albuquerque.

    Barter fears physical evidence was thrown out because of New Mexico's former 15-year statute of limitations on prosecuting murders.

    Barter said if investigators "had just done their jobs and preserved what was there," the victims' assailant or assailants would be in jail by now.


    Investigators know less about John Doe because his body was more badly decomposed. It had been at least eight weeks since his death when he was found. He was believed to be in his mid-20s, with a stocky build and reddish-blond hair. He may have worked for a carnival traveling around the area. Both were white.

    Barter got Mary Brazas, a Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office official, to draw new, more accurate reconstructions of the victims with the aid of computer technology. Older reconstructions done soon after the crime simply used clay and wigs.

    Theories emergeSeveral theories have emerged to explain why the two, who may have been a couple, were killed.

    Jane Doe may have been raped, and John Doe killed to get him out of the way, Barter said. It also could have been a drug deal gone bad. But Barter said both of these theories are only "wild guesses."

    No car has been tied to the victims and they are believed to have hitchhiked around the area, Barter said. They likely would have had few possessions worth stealing.

    Barter hopes someone still living can help him identify the victims and catch the killers.

    "This case epitomizes injustice," the detective said. "If there was justice in the world, (the killers) would be in jail, and we'd know who (the victims) were."

    A Colorado Bureau of Investigations agent in Durango, Jeff Brown, has helped track down leads for Barter. He said the bureau would not release any information about the investigation and referred questions to Archuleta County.

    The case became a bit more eerie when Barter and Brazas went to visit John Doe's grave. They found it in a line of gravestones devoted to unidentified victims.

    "There were fresh flowers on it," Barter said.

    Ranchers look backFrank Chavez, 76, and his brother Chris still raise cattle, goats, sheep, pigs and chickens at Rancho Juanita near where the bodies were found.

    The remote area is about 18 miles south of U.S. Highway 160, west of Pagosa Springs. A dirt road leads to Pagosa Junction, a place on the map marked only by a church and a crumbling railroad depot. The Chavez brothers live south of there, at Carracas, near where the San Juan River dips into New Mexico.

    The brothers think the bodies may have been thrown off the Carracas Bridge that spans the San Juan among cottonwoods and sagebrush on County Road 557. Both bodies were found downstream of there. But Barter said the bodies could have been dumped at any point upriver of where they were found.

    The brothers believe the killings were drug-related. Trafficking and a lack of law enforcement posed problems in the 1970s and early '80s, they said.

    "Planes used to fly by here real low," Chris Chavez said.

    Once, Chavez came upon a cleared area that appeared to be a drop zone for drugs.

    "The corridor here was drug-infested all the way up to Juanita," said Chavez, a former Archuleta County commissioner and Pagosa Springs businessman. "There was no law enforcement to speak of."

    But Barter said the Chavez brothers' theory that the killings were drug-related is only "speculative."


    Sheriff’s Department reopens 1982 murder case

  4. #19
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    CO - Colorado detective making progress on 27-year-old double homicide case

    Splotches of blood and bullet casings discovered in an old school bus rusting away in a meadow of aqua sage brush on the New Mexico border have reignited interest in a 27-year- old double-homicide.

    A couple seen hitchhiking decades ago may have been picked up by someone who drove them to the bus, where the man was shot, and the woman strangled and possibly raped. Both bodies were dumped into the San Juan River.

    The two were killed in the summer of 1982, but only a few months later the case went cold after a jurisdictional dispute between investigators and prosecutors in Colorado and New Mexico. Though suspects were named, no one was ever arrested.


    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13...urce=searchles

  5. #20
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    I wonder who left the flowers?

    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13...urce=searchles

    (snip)
    "Somebody killed these people and so far have gotten away with it," Barter said. "But I'm not done with it."
    Recently, he went to an Albuquerque cemetery where the headless skeleton of "John Doe Co." is buried with about 40 other unidentified dead in a dusty corner section. His was the only one adorned with newly purchased synthetic flowers.
    "It gave me chills," Barter said. "It was very odd."

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuziQ View Post
    I wonder who left the flowers?

    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13...urce=searchles

    (snip)
    "Somebody killed these people and so far have gotten away with it," Barter said. "But I'm not done with it."
    Recently, he went to an Albuquerque cemetery where the headless skeleton of "John Doe Co." is buried with about 40 other unidentified dead in a dusty corner section. His was the only one adorned with newly purchased synthetic flowers.
    "It gave me chills," Barter said. "It was very odd."
    Someone who feels a bit guilty?

  7. #22
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    it's really amazing what they can do to solve cold cases with the advancements they made with the dna and forensics they have now!

  8. #23
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    Sep 2007
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    New Mexico
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    So I am correct in understanding that they have not identified the victims? After reading the article i was left to believe that the ranch hand Miller may have been one of the bodies? These cold cases always leave me frustrated with how little information is left on them, but it seems like in this case there may be hope with forensics from the bus. Hopefully the other key players in the case will be traceable with information, i.e. Ms. Madrid and detectives of both states who worked on the case.

    It would seem as though somebody close to the case was following it if they left flowers at the John Doe's grave site, especially considering that Albuquerque is not near the border where the bodies were found. I would not have thought that the body would have been taken there given the details in the article, so somebody would have had to have gotten this information from somebody close to the case in my opinion. I hope there is some follow up to this article, as these cases so often just drop off the radar after the initial reporting.
    Last edited by Jesikah1; 10-15-2009 at 03:40 AM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesikah1 View Post
    So I am correct in understanding that they have not identified the victims? After reading the article i was left to believe that the ranch hand Miller may have been one of the bodies? These cold cases always leave me frustrated with how little information is left on them, but it seems like in this case there may be hope with forensics from the bus. Hopefully the other key players in the case will be traceable with information, i.e. Ms. Madrid and detectives of both states who worked on the case.

    It would seem as though somebody close to the case was following it if they left flowers at the John Doe's grave site, especially considering that Albuquerque is not near the border where the bodies were found. I would not have thought that the body would have been taken there given the details in the article, so somebody would have had to have gotten this information from somebody close to the case in my opinion. I hope there is some follow up to this article, as these cases so often just drop off the radar after the inital reporting.
    I hope enough info comes out soon that we can post these victims in the UID forum. Wow - talk about dropped balls!

  10. #25
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    I put flowers on a local Jane Doe's grave from time to time, just out of sorrow that she wasn't identified. (She has since been identified). Maybe someone did it for the same reasons I did.






    All kinds of hugs!

    ROSIE




  11. #26
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    Apr 2009
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    An article with a bit more info:

    http://www.pagosasun.com/archives/20...urdercase.html

    And a link on websleuths to further discussion:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho....php?p=4285267
    Last edited by bessie; 11-24-2014 at 04:43 PM. Reason: repaired link

  12. #27
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    Thank You Doublestop for the links, the info shared in them was very informative. The part about the Chavez brothers' speculating about drugs being a cause for the murders seem quite possible, at least for the man who got shot, but I am still concerned about no id for the victims. It seems unlikely that they were from that area, as no one has reported them missing, (that we know of at least), but you know somebody is wondering about their fate somewhere. I'd like to know what kind of operations were running drugs in the area around that time, large or small, local or transient that kind of thing.

    I wish they'd described the flavor of what was going on in that area during that era, as it would make it easier to speculate what happened to these victims. And I have to mention the absurdity of a 15 year statute of limitations on murder prosecutions here, I am glad that is no longer in effect, but wow.

  13. #28
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    Thanks for the links, doublestop! I should have known our sleuths were already hard at work on this. Rosie, that was sweet of you to do that for your Doe. From the other article, I gathered that there is a line of graves and nothing marking John Does' grave. It sounds like what we called Potter's Field back in Ill-where they bury the poor, unknown, etc. I'm just glad that there is new interest in the case, along with new technology, and that the culprits are caught. And wow, Jesikah, I had never heard of a state with a statute of limitations in any murder case. Glad that's changed.

  14. #29
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    I got a callback from the det. that has the Ambrose case. He says he has dental records on Ambrose, they have dental records on the Doe, there should be no problem with comparison. He has not received a request for updated information that he can recall. He will make a request for dental comparison.
    Now we wait.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.

  15. #30
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    any word here?

    neither Ambrose nor the UID are in Namus but Ambrose is still showing up as missing at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation website:

    https://www.colorado.gov/apps/coldca...l.html?id=1162

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