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Thread: Sleuthing Cindy's Depo & Baez Objections to Sealed Items

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    Sleuthing Cindy's Depo & Baez Objections to Sealed Items

    In Cindy's SA depo, Baez stops the proceedings at one point and objects to some things being entered as they are supposed to be sealed.

    This seems like it could be VERY VERY interesting, and worthy of it's own thread for discussion! Baez is adamant about this not being discussed.

    Here are the 21 pages of her depo where this discussion takes place.

    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/13348352...ns_SealedStuff


    IIRC, there was an OCSO document that listed the items that Baez turned over to the OCSO after Caylee's remains were found, ostensibly to help with DNA identification. Anybody remember where that doc is?

    I will also bring over a few posts from the Cindy Depo thread that help highlight what it could be.

    .
    Last edited by Muzikman; 10-17-2009 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Spelling


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    Quote Originally Posted by salvarenga View Post
    Is there anyone here that's good with photo enhancement. I am trying to get a better picture of Exhibit 22. These are the lists that they were squabbling about and Jose told her to "zip it". Can't make out anything that's written on the right side.
    Quote Originally Posted by panama View Post
    I extracted the original resolution version from the PDF. I think this one might be mostly legible...

    http://img42.yfrog.com/img42/4426/exhib22.png
    Quote Originally Posted by lacey clementine View Post
    http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310288/detail.html

    I read a Twitter post from 3 hours ago about "100 missing pages" from Pt II of Cindy's deposition. Not sure if anyone has seen these but there is info here I have not read commented upon. FWIW.

    On page 321, Baez becomes really upset when LDB is asking Cindy about what items Casey gave to Baez (i.e., photos, videos, etc.) JB is saying this info is "sealed" and he doesn't want it "on the record." Also, Cindy is questioned about the duct tape and she admits to it being in the garage and shed, and having been used at the command post. One thing that might be very significant is, while Cindy denies she has/had any canvas laundry bags, she talks about a tablecloth and rug that she uses when she cuts Lee's hair. These items are stored in the garage laundry area. I am wondering if any of the "fringe hair" discovered at the crime scene may have come from this tablecloth or rug. I don't recall seeing this portion of Cindy's depo being discussed previously. If so just disregard. I am on information overload!
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    Thank you Lacey! This is the part that wasn't in what WFTV originally put up. I've been waiting to read this!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    The top picture in that exhibit (the on that you extracted panama) is identified as one of the pictures that was sealed. (page 497 lines 24-25 and 498 line 1)

    Baez is about to jump out of his seat. Did Baez tell CA or Conway to "Zip it"?

    Dang I wish I could read what was on it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    What all has been sealed in this case? Can someone give me a link to a post or list?

    The huge discussion is about something that has been sealed, it directly follows an objection by Baez as to the line of questioning in which the SA asks CA did she ever see KC removing any photos, videos or images of Caylee..(Photographs)

    Baez objects and there are pages of discussion between lawyers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Macushla View Post
    I think The SA was asking CA what she OBSERVED KC putting into her back pack before she went to JB's office. That is when the discussion started. CA tried to answer and JB told her to 'zip it' (surprised he didn't say 'zip it rosebud'). There has been huge speculation about KC bringing pictures/videos to JB's office in order to 'sell' them to pay for her defense. There was an 'in camera' session with the Judge when the SA demanded to know where the funds were coming from. Judge was satisfied with the answers he got in camera. SO............I think Cindy was going to say she saw KC putting photos, etc. in her backpack. JB most definitely does not want it to get out that KC was 'selling' Caylee to pay for her defense. As mad people are about CA and GA making money like this - can you imagine how it would go for the defense if they knew that not only was this how KC was paying JB, but that JB was the front man for it!!!!!! I really think this is what the discussion was about. If you remember the Sa kept saying I KNOW the answer to this, she just wanted to try and get it on record. I don't think it was any physical evidence, I think it was pictures, videos, etc. IMVHO KC was bringing these things to JB who then turned around and negotiated with 'someone' for $$ for the pictures.

    I am pretty confident in my 'theory' but I would love to hear what everyone else thinks!

    Quote Originally Posted by lacey clementine View Post
    This is my understanding as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    Thank you Macushla. IMO this whole line of questioning deserves it's own thread to see if we can figure out what they are referring to as being sealed... I am going to start a thread and take your post over there, if that's OK.

    I separated out just the 21 pages where they are talking about this for easy sleuthing.
    This is the line of discussion from the Cindy depo thread. It seems like it could be very revealing to definitively nail this down!

    .
    Last edited by Muzikman; 10-17-2009 at 11:18 AM. Reason: rearrange


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    I'll just include this here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Valhall View Post
    Okay, this is what I've been able to read from Exhibit 22 using PhotoShop CS4:

    Right upper corner:

    Pillow saliva
    chewing gum

    From top left:

    Mom & Baby
    pacifier
    straw
    unknown (starts with a C)
    Bib
    tooth
    unknown (starts with an s) then in paratheses (unknown appears to start with a w then I believe it says "cloth" "band" unknown appears to start with s)

    (Mom)
    sterile swab
    (register envelope)
    scotch tape
    (unkown, but two words)


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    Thanks Valhall. I am going to go down to the Clerk's office next week to see if a better copy of these exhibits can be made. Hoping the original is in color.


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    IMO, Macushla (see above) is on the right track.
    Casey was hauling photos and videos over to JB's office for the purpose of selling them. Since the hearing regarding how she is paying JB was private, the outcome may very well have been sealed.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by whiteangora View Post
    IMO, Macushla (see above) is on the right track.
    Casey was hauling photos and videos over to JB's office for the purpose of selling them. Since the hearing regarding how she is paying JB was private, the outcome may very well have been sealed.
    Agree, I think Mac is on the right track, too.

    However, I think that Mac is also trying to point out that the SA would like to get additional details on the record - besides discussion about the sealed items specifically. I *think* JB somehow weaseled out of the 'how is KC paying for her defense' line of questioning and that the SA is trying to get it on record that KC took JB more than what is on that list of sealed items, KWIM?

    I agree that sleuthing the list of sealed items is necessary, I just happen to think that what the SA was trying to get on record won't be found on the list.


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    Well, I'm wondering because the point at which he objects is when she is talking about what items she turned over to him - toothbrushes, etc.

    IIRC, It seems this is where the Garrison email about the hairbrush that Cindy held back comes in.


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    I agree, Muzikman. The point at which Jose says "zip it" is when Cindy has started saying she has never "seen that document" before. It has something to do with a document.


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    I am wondering if the defense is going to try to implicate Cindy (and/or George) and this might have something to do with that. Because just after all this, both AL and JB question Cindy and want to know specifics about the immunity that was offered to her. Pure speculation.


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    I totally agree with you Muzikman, this discussion seems clearly about Casey taking photos and putting them in her backpack to take to Baez's office. The only piece of sealed evidence (beside the autopsy photos) is regarding the financing of the defense and the in camera interview with the Judge, of which the SA was present. Note that the SA is clearly aware of what the answer to the question is and how it relates to the meeting to which they were present).

    I think this is a good catch and could be important, because this information is going to come out from the sounds of the conversation.

    Off topic, but I note in this same clip, that Cindy states that George placed the tape on the gas can when it was returned by LE, while George stated (in his deposition), that he was not the one to place the duct tape on the gas can and goes to insinuate that LE did it.

    Another contradiction in their stories!


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    Photos & videos

    Bringing this over from the motions hearing thread

    Techno challenged defense & PHOTOS

    Jose Baez & the defense team being "computer challenged" about dealing with the photos strikes me as being a tad ironic, given the fact that Casey had hundreds of photos in the computer and various phones, which she madly tried to deal with around the time of her arrest.

    And if the "zip it" comment refers to Cindy not discussing the issue of what Jose & Casey were doing all those hours in his office when they had access to her computer files and PHOTOS & VIDEOS. . . . . hhmmmmmmmmmm

    Could they have been organizing them, figuring out how to use what the Ants had on phones , videos & computers to figure out a way of ?? payment down the road for services rendered" and then for future monetary gain?????? Makes me wonder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    Well, I'm wondering because the point at which he objects is when she is talking about what items she turned over to him - toothbrushes, etc.

    IIRC, It seems this is where the Garrison email about the hairbrush that Cindy held back comes in.
    MM: I think there are 2 photos or documents that SA wanted to put into evidence - and I think it was the 'second' item not the toothbrushes, etc. that caused JB to jump in there. While I am sticking to my theory - I am going to really enjoy reading this thread!
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    Sorry, this is similar to above, must have been writing simultaneously ( or great minds think alike)

    Remember, Casey had a lot of time between arrests as well to get on the computer, and as we have read in Cindy's depo, this was "supposed" to be supervised, but why would we assume they would follow the rules in something like this, when they have already admitted that lying is not breaking the law, in their world??

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    Does anyone else remember a pic of Casey with a very full backpack going into JB's office?


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    Quote Originally Posted by octobermoon View Post
    Does anyone else remember a pic of Casey with a very full backpack going into JB's office?
    I think there were a number of videos and pictures showing KC with a backpack going into JB's office and yeah, it always looked quite full. I am sure they are on this forum somewhere! I will try to look later on.
    Last edited by Macushla; 10-17-2009 at 12:04 PM. Reason: bad typos :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by octobermoon View Post
    Does anyone else remember a pic of Casey with a very full backpack going into JB's office?
    Yeah, I believe it's the day she blew out her flip-top...stepped on a pop top, cut her heel, head to cruise on back...wait, that's a song.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Valhall View Post
    Yeah, I believe it's the day she blew out her flip-top...stepped on a pop top, cut her heel, head to cruise on back...wait, that's a song.
    lol. Now that tune is stuck in my head!

    Anyway, you're right. I remember the picture of her flip-flop falling off her foot. She was walking up to the office, and her backpack was so full it looked bigger than her!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macushla View Post
    MM: I think there are 2 photos or documents that SA wanted to put into evidence - and I think it was the 'second' item not the toothbrushes, etc. that caused JB to jump in there. While I am sticking to my theory - I am going to really enjoy reading this thread!
    Yes, the objection initially is to an exhibit (page 496, line 17). If it's just a photo, and it's already out there in the public, why object to it?

    Is it maybe a photo that is NOT in the public domain, of an object or person that Baez doesn't want known? It's something that Cindy hasn't seen before.


    Is it possible that there are things sealed (other than the remains photos and money issues) that we don't know about? Seems like a seal order from the judge would be in the case file.


  24. #19
    Couple questions:

    1. can this also be related to the portion of George's depo when George is asked if he was shown communications/document by JB from KC that he was not allowed to take? Contract/negotiations for sale of pictures & videos?
    2. Where does the 'handwriting' question come into play? Can we assume the other document was in Casey's handwriting?
    3. Was there another protective order filed after this depo?

    What I find fascinating is that they obviously caught Cindy off guard (uncoached) with something she wasn't previously aware of.
    Last edited by ThoughtElf; 10-17-2009 at 12:13 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Valhall View Post
    I'll just include this here:
    Great job! I've been playing with this and think I may have come up with a couple, too.

    The first unknown (under straw) is cup
    The second unknown (under bibs) is (wash cloth band aid) with saliva written again to the left in front of the parenthesis
    I'm having a hard time with the last line, too. It's two words. The could have a / between them or maybe parenthesis? Could earphone be the last word? I dunno.

    ETA: Oh, also I noticed that on the page to the left (where the list is quite legible) spiderman toothbrush is added as an afterthought, smaller and to the right.
    Last edited by ExpectingUnicorns; 10-17-2009 at 12:14 PM. Reason: ETA spiderman toothbrush
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    A little O/T here. I was surprised at JB's comment to CA to zip it. I can not believe she let him get away with that. While I imagine it must be very difficult to get CA to stop talking the sheer rudeness of what he said is just amazing. Now, I am picturing him saying it abruptly and it is possible he said it with a smile and sort of as a joke (this is why I would love to hear the audio of this part). To me, it was just another example of JB being unprofessional.
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    Quote Originally Posted by octobermoon View Post
    Does anyone else remember a pic of Casey with a very full backpack going into JB's office?
    Trying to attach pix---
    Attached Images Attached Images


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    Quote Originally Posted by Macushla View Post
    A little O/T here. I was surprised at JB's comment to CA to zip it. I can not believe she let him get away with that. While I imagine it must be very difficult to get CA to stop talking the sheer rudeness of what he said is just amazing. Now, I am picturing him saying it abruptly and it is possible he said it with a smile and sort of as a joke (this is why I would love to hear the audio of this part). To me, it was just another example of JB being unprofessional.
    He 'sounded' frantic as I read through the depo. Cindy actually offered to come back another day to answer that question so I imagine she might have picked up on his intensity and realized it might not be prudent to answer then and there.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Valhall View Post
    I agree, Muzikman. The point at which Jose says "zip it" is when Cindy has started saying she has never "seen that document" before. It has something to do with a document.
    I am sure you are right, but my first reaction was to say it could be at any point where she is about to reveal something incriminating and that could be a number of things....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macushla View Post
    A little O/T here. I was surprised at JB's comment to CA to zip it. I can not believe she let him get away with that. While I imagine it must be very difficult to get CA to stop talking the sheer rudeness of what he said is just amazing. Now, I am picturing him saying it abruptly and it is possible he said it with a smile and sort of as a joke (this is why I would love to hear the audio of this part). To me, it was just another example of JB being unprofessional.
    Not really off topic..

    I would LOVE to hear/see audio or video of this depo, and hear the tone of voice used. Could be telling. How much desperation is in Jose's objection?


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