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View Poll Results: “Santa Claus promised that he would make a secret visit after Christmas.”

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  • compelling evidence

    5 41.67%
  • not compelling evidence

    7 58.33%

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  1. #1
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    The fugitive theory and secret visit of Santa

    It's well known that the RN has quotes from Dirty Harry, Ransom etc.

    I think the crime may have been influence by the 1993 movie The Fugitive

    To understand the background consider this:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_C4IHxeGXI&feature=PlayList&p=5225E0408EB C527A&index=0&playnext=1"]YouTube - The Fugitive 1993 (1)[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5lSV5oEaW8&feature=PlayList&p=5225E0408EB C527A&index=1"]YouTube - The Fugitive 1993 (2)[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rYGrWz1KRI&feature=PlayList&p=5225E0408EB C527A&index=2"]YouTube - The Fugitive 1993 (3)[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypABS6mfNpc&feature=PlayList&p=5225E0408EB C527A&index=10"]YouTube - The Fugitive 1993 (11)[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPNjmE9JziY&feature=PlayList&p=5225E0408EB C527A&index=11"]YouTube - The Fugitive 1993 (12)[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG_HRHvAkT4&feature=PlayList&p=5225E0408EB C527A&index=12"]YouTube - The Fugitive 1993 (13)[/ame]


    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    If I find any, I'll let them know!

    Just as a reminder to anyone interested, I mentioned earlier that a lot of the preliminary analysis was done before it was known that PR could write with either hand. What I forgot to mention was:

    4) As it was explained to me, the feeling is that whomever wrote the captions in the R family photo album wrote the RN.

    5) Her own mother and sister said it looked like her writing.

    6) Like the people I spoke to said, most of the time it's not a question of being able to say "this person wrote it for sure." It's a question of saying "we've eliminated everyone else."

    Take those for what they're worth.



    Excellent. Now we're talking.



    How do you mean?



    I couldn't say just off the top of my head. "Not many," would be my guess. But, let me lay this one on you, purely hypothetically: let's say that a random sample would produce 10-20 similarities. That's a pretty far cry from 243 or even 100 or 50. In this particular instance, it's not just the number, it's the kind of similarities. So, qualitative and quantitative, I guess you'd say.

    Let me put it to you this way: for a little while now, you've asserted that any number of people using this particular writing implement would produce the same results. The problem with that assertion (as I see it) is that the police seem to have covered that base. If what you say were true, there would have been quite a few people out of the 70+ who were tested who would have set off alarm bells. I think Tadpole mentioned something about that a while ago, but I can't remember the exact wording just now. Except there weren't a lot of people who aroused interest. ONE PERSON.

    It's times like this that I REALLY regret not being able to scan those charts into my computer and show them to you, because you're really missing out.



    I'm not sure.

    But, allow me to say this: I just read what Professor Coulthard said in his review. I think he mentioned something like 18 variances. Okay, I admit that sounds pretty good. All of this linguistic analysis sounds really good, in and of itself. But--again, as I see it--that's the problem: looking at it in a vacuum. You really can't do that in this case, just the way it's set up. You have to take that holistic view I keep hammering. I imagine that's what Sophie was trying to say.

    To sum up:

    On your end you've got impressive linguistic talent in a vacuum. It doesn't seem to take into account the many (and I do mean MANY) instances where the Rs have used "ransomspeak." Moreover, for it to really do any good, you'd have to establish firmly that someone else was in the house to begin with. And that's something that, to date, cannot be done. That's the problem I have with a lot of this: the experts seem to be operating in a vacuum. (I could be wrong on that. If they considered other evidence, please DO NOT hesitate to tell me!)

    From my end, we've got several well-established document examiners, the fact that it was written in their house on their paper with their pen (which was even put back in its proper place), and it can be established beyond a doubt that they were there that night. PLUS, we know that people operating on their behalf tried to sabotage one of those examiners so he couldn't testify against them and there was a possible attempt to scare off another one (if what Wong said is accurate, and I have no reason to think it wasn't).
    Even if you don't consider anything else about it, that's the vital core. cynic is right about that: those elements would have to be considered.

    So, if you were in my position, where would you come down? Think about it, okay? (I know it may not seem like it, but I consider everything you say.)
    David, recall back to your first lesson. All who have power are afraid to lose it, even the RDI spin team. Good is a point of view, Super. The Spin and the JIDI are alike in almost every way including their quest for greater power.


    LISTEN CAREFULLY, IT'S UP TO YOU NOW!
    If intruder had samples of PR's handwriting, it would be easy for him to deliberately disguise his handwriting in a way to superficially look like PR's. And there handwriting experts who point out significant differences between PR and RN. Forensic linguist Gerald McMermanin is well aware of handwriting experts who claim a match between PR and RN, but as a linguist his expertise is to report linguistic data and his impartial evaluation of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Actually, there's no solid proof she said that. Last I knew, all we had was JR's word for it.
    Master Dave I'm disappointed. RDI spin team holds you in such high esteem. Surely you can do better!


    "Barbara Kostanick was the mother of a playmate of JBR's. She asserted: "The day before Christmas, JonBenet was at our house playing with Megan. The kids were talking about Santa, getting all excited. I asked JonBenet if she had visited Santa Claus yet. She said, “Oh, Santa was at our Christmas party the other night.” Megan had seen Santa at the Pearl Street Mall, so we talked about that. Then JonBenet said, “Santa Claus promised that he would make a secret visit after Christmas.” I thought she was confused. “Christmas is tonight,” I told her. “And Santa will be coming tonight.” “No, no” JonBenet insisted. “He said this would be after Christmas. And it’s a secret” (Schiller 1999:38-39).


    "Santa" and JB had a sexual relationship. This explains erosion with hymen, and primary transfer of his DNA in JB's vagina. Santa was worried that JB might expose him as a pedophile, and decides to kill JB. Santa had a pre-arranged meeting w/JB. JB keeps door unlocked to meet Santa. Santa has entered house before, and possibly took the yellow pad with him (which may had samples of PR's handwriting)

    No forced entry as in Fugitive. Santa wore gloves. No fingerprints as in Fugitive.

    JB lets Santa in. Santa brings with him the yellow pad w/RN, consciously attempting to imitate PR's handwriting. He provides JB w/pineapple she eats it. He decides to kill her and put her in the basement. He thinks some incriminating evidence like hair and fiber might be in JB's body or clothes so does some re-dressing.

    He has seen the Fugitive. He knows if he keeps JB"s body in the house, the parents will be blamed just as Dr. Richard Kimball was. He stages the scene to include a false point of entry (basement window) false motive of kidnapping, to cover his own real motive.

    A common RDI spin is that the R's over-staged the crime scene, and that if a hypothetical intruder wanted money why did he leave the body behind? Therefore the R's must have staged the RN as the only possible explanation to create a fiction of kidnapper scenario.

    The RN and demand for kidnapping money is staging. He never wanted money, only kill JB to keep her silent. He has seen Dirty Harry, Ransom, Leopold and Loeb, and crime scene staging.

    He may have heard the $118k bonus from JB.

    He struck JB w/flashlight then wiped it clean. He then quickly went to work strangling her. No need to speculate whether the R's knew how to tie such a knot. They don't.

    He realized if he staged the crime scene, profilers would be mislead into thinking the parents did the staging. He carried off w/broken paintbrush, nylon rope, items that are source of brown fiber and beaver hair, wipes flashlight of blood (which also cleans it of fingerprints).

    He left behind the RN, which was really full of Freudian slips that he wanted to kill JB to silence her, some possibly incriminating items and left out the door. As with the Danielle Van Dam murder, no forced entry means no clear evidence of an intruder of the kind that is usually present. He left behind the body as he has no need for it now JB is silence, and knowing the parents will take the fall.

    The DNA and forensic linguistics are the most compelling evidence of this. What RDI spin calls staging, such as head blow and strangulation, is actually the handiwork of Santa. The "degraded" DNA found in JB's fingernails may be result of previous weeks contact w/Santa. Santa hoped to cover up his previous sexual contact by staging a sexual assault w/paintbrush, not knowing that her hymen was already eroded.

    The intruder staged the crime scene and motive to mislead the RDIST into thinking the parents staged the crime scene into believing the intruder did it. Santa may have had some feelings for JB and hence a proprietary interest in JB. He felt he needed to silence her or risk ruin to his professional reputation.

    This is a case of an intruder staging the crime scene to frame the parents, not the other way around. He opened the basement window to mislead LE into thinking he entered that way. He knew he did not enter that way but through JB, and he knew from studying profiling that profilers would see this as the R's staging the crime scene. He does not want to be found. He does not want to be caught. He does not want his reputation ruined.

    The reason forensic linguistics doesn't match is that the intruder did not know how to disguise that, only knew how to imitate PR's writing. He thought the R's were from the South, and used Southern words like gentlemen. The DNA in Vagina was the result of a PRIMARY transfer of his finger in her vagina, and his DNA on the sides of the long johns due to PRIMARY transfer from his shedding skin cells to those locations. Unsourced brown fibers were from a teddy bear he gave as a gift to JB.

    As w/movie Fugitive, you will hear a voice of the grave, of JB identifying her killer:

    “Santa Claus promised that he would make a secret visit after Christmas.” I thought she was confused. “Christmas is tonight,” I told her. “And Santa will be coming tonight.” “No, no” JonBenet insisted. “He said this would be after Christmas. And it’s a secret”


    Pretty amazing coincidence wouldn't you say? A secret visit after Christmas, and she was murdered. If JB was expecting such a visit, it seems fair to say she might have been awake that night, eating pineapples, waiting for Santa. The unsourced brown fibers on JB were a teddy bear Santa gift for her given to her by the intruder.

    RDI spin team, tell me something, what do you think JB had in mind when she said " “Santa Claus promised that he would make a secret visit after Christmas.” I thought she was confused. “Christmas is tonight,” I told her. “And Santa will be coming tonight.” “No, no” JonBenet insisted. “He said this would be after Christmas. And it’s a secret” "

    and is it coincidence she was murdered then?

    To address the RDIST beloved CASKU:

    Of all murder cases in the annals of history how many involve a girl, under 12, who reports “Santa Claus promised that he would make a secret visit after Christmas.” I thought she was confused. “Christmas is tonight,” I told her. “And Santa will be coming tonight.” “No, no” JonBenet insisted. “He said this would be after Christmas. And it’s a secret”

    and is murdered that day in their own homes? JB did not even tell R's, only Barbara Kostanick and Megan Kostanick. No doubt Santa swore JB not to tell her parents.
    Last edited by voynich; 10-20-2009 at 03:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    LISTEN CAREFULLY, IT'S UP TO YOU NOW!
    If intruder had samples of PR's handwriting, it would be easy for him to deliberately disguise his handwriting in a way to superficially look like PR's. And there handwriting experts who point out significant differences between PR and RN.


    But I really thought I understood McM saying this was near zero for this.....
    Knowledge of time is precious.Wisdom of truth is more precious than time..Opinions I write are mine..

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyn View Post
    LISTEN CAREFULLY, IT'S UP TO YOU NOW!
    If intruder had samples of PR's handwriting, it would be easy for him to deliberately disguise his handwriting in a way to superficially look like PR's. And there handwriting experts who point out significant differences between PR and RN.


    But I really thought I understood McM saying this was near zero for this.....
    we're talking handwriting, not linguistic features of the RN, there's a difference.

    The intruder saw PR writes hooded a's so he followed her in that. Intruder did not observe or incorporate or understand the importance of PR's misspellings, sentences, grammar, hyphenations, etc. linguistic features.

    "Listen carefully, It's up to you now," has my attempt to disguise my handwriting to look like the RN.
    Last edited by voynich; 10-20-2009 at 03:08 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    we're talking handwriting, not linguistic features of the RN, there's a difference.

    The intruder saw PR writes hooded a's so he followed her in that. Intruder did not observe or incorporate or understand the importance of PR's misspellings, sentences, grammar, hyphenations, etc. linguistic features.

    "Listen carefully, It's up to you now," has my attempt to disguise my handwriting to look like the RN.

    But yet what if she did disguised her own writting how would we ever know that,just curious here but handwritting always leaves a signature behind of that person which I found out in my experiment...Which I will post soon....
    Last edited by Ravyn; 10-20-2009 at 03:44 AM.
    Knowledge of time is precious.Wisdom of truth is more precious than time..Opinions I write are mine..

  5. #5
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    Very interesting post, Voynich. But who do you think Santa is? Do you have anyone in mind? I thought that Bill McReynolds was cleared completely?!! Is that the Santa that you have in mind, or are you referring to another person?
    "To do is to be"-Nietzsche
    "To be is to do"-Kant
    "Do be do do be do"- Sinatra
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by redeemed View Post
    Very interesting post, Voynich. But who do you think Santa is? Do you have anyone in mind? I thought that Bill McReynolds was cleared completely?!! Is that the Santa that you have in mind, or are you referring to another person?
    LE seized a Santa suit from the R home.And I guess it wasn't placed there by an intruder.
    Ramsey case: "Instead of being the DNA of one person, they have instead created a composite of someone who does not exist. "

  7. #7
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    How would JB know about the bonus,according to J.DOuglas not even PR knew about it.
    Ramsey case: "Instead of being the DNA of one person, they have instead created a composite of someone who does not exist. "

  8. #8
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    No need to speculate whether the R's knew how to tie such a knot. They don't.
    And how do you know this?
    Ramsey case: "Instead of being the DNA of one person, they have instead created a composite of someone who does not exist. "

  9. #9
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    Is it a coincidence that she was molested before,she said Santa will pay her a secret visit AND a Santa suit was found in their home(belonging to the R's?)

    Who's the most likely "Santa" in the Santa Did it scenario?Hm?

    Not an intruder IMO.
    Ramsey case: "Instead of being the DNA of one person, they have instead created a composite of someone who does not exist. "

  10. #10
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    John distinctively called himself SANTA in DOI. "and Santa had one more thing to do...",when talking about getting Patsy's bike out for her.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by redeemed View Post
    Very interesting post, Voynich. But who do you think Santa is? Do you have anyone in mind? I thought that Bill McReynolds was cleared completely?!! Is that the Santa that you have in mind, or are you referring to another person?
    I don't know who Santa is but it is obviously someone who had JB's trust, and who JB called Santa was not necessarily white beard and red uniform and black boots (although red fibers found in rope and paint tray)

    It's not necessarily Bill McReynolds. Obviously Santa is the owner of the foreign DNA.

    BTW did you see the movie clips The Fugitive?

    The one-armed intruder killed Richard Kimball's wife, and Richard Kimball was to be executed for that crime.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by voynich View Post
    I don't know who Santa is but it is obviously someone who had JB's trust, and who JB called Santa was not necessarily white beard and red uniform and black boots (although red fibers found in rope and paint tray)

    It's not necessarily Bill McReynolds. Obviously Santa is the owner of the foreign DNA.

    BTW did you see the movie clips The Fugitive?

    The one-armed intruder killed Richard Kimball's wife, and Richard Kimball was to be executed for that crime.
    No i havent seen all the clips..actually, i plan to watch the entire movie sometime soon..u got me interested...

    Ok, so for Santa to have JB's trust means that he must have seen her atleast a few times before the murder..(surely she wouldn't trust a complete stranger 100%)..
    Now the question is-in what setting is JB likely to have encountered this Santa...or rather, is it a Santa that her parents were acquainted with (family friend) or someone only she was acquainted with? ( in the latter scenario, I can only imagine someone from school, like a school teacher..but even then, her parents surely must have seen him atleast once..maybe in a parent-teacher meeting , concert etc)..
    seriously, evertime I consider an intruder, I can only see a family acquaintance.. there is no way a complete stranger did this...NO WAY...
    So Voynich, do we both agree that "Santa" is a family acquaintance?
    If so, who are the likely candidates?
    I believe that ALL were cleared??
    (Please correct me if Im wrong, as this is my understanding so far...)
    Is there ANY acquaintance whom you believe wasnt examined and investigated sufficiently, in your opinion?
    If so, who?
    Last edited by redeemed; 10-20-2009 at 02:40 PM.
    "To do is to be"-Nietzsche
    "To be is to do"-Kant
    "Do be do do be do"- Sinatra
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  13. #13
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    um,no we don't know for sure the dna is santa's.imo the R's know EXACTLY what the santa visit was all about,they just played it for what it was worth.imo JR was most likely santa,and someone else redressed JB.thus the reason no further dna tests on other items.
    John is inadvertently telling us what he knows about the crime.he knew it would be safe to have the lj's tested.in fact, he figured in advance that it might yield results he could use for the idi spin theory.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

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    Quote Originally Posted by redeemed View Post
    No i havent seen all the clips..actually, i plan to watch the entire movie sometime soon..u got me interested...

    Ok, so for Santa to have JB's trust means that he must have seen her atleast a few times before the murder..(surely she wouldn't trust a complete stranger 100%)..
    Now the question is-in what setting is JB likely to have encountered this Santa...or rather, is it a Santa that her parents were acquainted with 9family friend) or someone only she was acquainted with? ( in the latter scenario, I can only imagine someone from school, like a school teacher..but even then, her parents surely must have seen him atleast once..maybe in a parent-teacher meeting , concert etc)..
    seriously, evertime I consider an intruder, I can only see a family acquaintance.. there is no way a complete stranger did this...NO WAY...
    So Voynich, do we both agree that "Santa" is a family acquaintance?
    If so, who are the likely candidates?
    I believe that ALL were cleared??
    (Please correct me if Im wrong, as this is my understanding so far...)
    Is there ANY acquaintance whom you believe wasnt examined and investigated sufficiently, in your opinion?
    If so, who?
    have you heard of Amy the rape victim?

    I thought not. It's not a story The Spin would tell you. She's a JIDI legend.
    Amy the rape victim was a young girl, who lived less than 2 miles and 9 months after JB death. She had such a connection to JB West Dance studio that she was raped in her home.

    The Dark Side is a pathway to many facts the Spin would tell you is irrelevant.

    The only thing the Spin was afraid of was losing their power. Which eventually of course they did. Unfortunately they base their Spin on CASKU and CASKU stands discredited. It's ironic. CASKU could profile other cases but not their own.

    Would it be possible to learn about Amy's rape?
    NOt from a RDI spin team.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in661569.shtml

    How did 6-year-old JonBenet become a target? Gray and San Augustin have a theory of how she may have been marked for death.

    "She was high profile in her community. She had just participated in several pageants in the general area," says Gray. "She had participated in the Christmas parade in Boulder. So you know you have seen her."

    Investigators believe that putting JonBenet in the public eye may have inadvertently put her in the sights of a sexual predator as well.

    48 Hours has learned that JonBenet may have been targeted for murder long before she took the stage, possibly at a local dance studio called Dance West, where she took lessons.

    "To someone with that, you know, kind of a twisted mind, she may have looked like a really good target," says former Denver private investigator Pete Peterson. Less than a year after the murder of JonBenet, he was hired to work on another case in Boulder that had strange parallels to the Ramsey case.

    "There's a Dance West school where the victim of the assault in our case, the one that we investigated, and the Ramsey girl, both attended," says Peterson, who now believes Jon Benet was first targeted at that dance studio because of what happened to his client, just nine months after JonBenet was murdered.

    Like JonBenet, she took lessons at Dance West. And like JonBenet, another girl, who is identified as "Amy," was attacked and sexually assaulted at night in her own bedroom on Sept. 14, 1997.

    That night, Amy's father was out of town. After catching a movie, Amy and her mother returned home late. What they didn't know when they entered the house was that there was already an intruder inside.

    Amy's father, who asked that his identity be obscured, agreed to talk about what happened that night: "My feeling is he got into the house while they were out and hid inside the house, so he would have been in there for perhaps four to six hours, hiding."

    Before going to bed, Amy's mother turned on the burglar alarm. Around midnight, Amy woke up to find a man standing over her bed, his hand over her mouth. "She remembered the intruder addressing her by her name," says Peterson. "He said, 'I know who you are.' He repeated those things a few times, apparently. 'I'll knock you out. Shut up.'"

    Peterson says Amy's mother heard whispering, and proceeded through the doorway, and saw a person, who just brushed her aside and quickly made his escape by jumping out a second-floor window.

    "He was like a ghost," recalls Amy's father. "We couldn't figure out where he came from, or where he went."

    By the time the Boulder police arrived, the man was long gone. Because the intruder had gotten in and out of the house so easily, Amy's father began to think this wasn't the first time he had done something like this.

    "The first thing that occurred to us was that it was the parallel to the Ramsey case because it was exactly the same situation," says Amy's father, who even told the Boulder police about the Dance West studio connection to the Ramsey case. "I think someone, somewhere, drew a bead on her. Obviously had us under surveillance that we were not aware of."

    The studio has since gone out of business and been torn down, but photos show that there was a balcony overlooking the dance floor where parents and anyone else could come in and watch the children.

    But Amy's dad says that when he told the police detectives about the information he had, "they were completely uninterested in it."

    "They were very frustrated," says Peterson. "It was difficult to get them to do anything much less, you know, beyond taking a report."

    But not only did the Boulder police dismiss any link to the Ramsey case, they didn't even bother to use the mother's eyewitness description to make a composite sketch. That's when Amy's family hired Peterson. What he has uncovered in his investigation may not only solve Amy's case, but also help lead to the capture of JonBenet's killer.

    "This person is someone with a huge ego, someone who views himself as bold," says Peterson, who believes there are too many parallels between Amy's case and JonBenet's murder.

    Both JonBenet and Amy were sexually assaulted by an intruder at night in their homes -- within nine months of each other. Fiber evidence shows that JonBenet's attacker may have been wearing black, as was the man who attacked Amy. And there's the fact that both girls took lessons at the Dance West studio.


    Aware of the damage this can cause RDI, and how it thoroughly invalidates CASKU analysis, the dark Lords of RDI spin team, the Spin Lord came up with a rather creative explanation: Amy's rapist was actually her bf, and Amy lied to her parents to protect her reputation. Possible, but then she and her parents made false statements to LE. The RDI powers of spin are far beyond yours.

    I told the Dark Lord of the Spin that while his spin is possible, does he have specific evidence that Amy, her mother and father, falsely reported rape to LE?

    Despite the RDI spin team's spin, this was a real rape, less than 2 miles and 9 months after JB, which invalidates CASKU, and Sophie put in a FOIA request for this case and She did receive paperwork from Boulder LE.

    It completely invalidates CASKU's key premise that "pedophile intruders don't enter peoples homes while they are away and wait for them to come home and assault and rape young girls as is in JB" which of course is exactly what happened to Amy less than 2 miles and 9 months after JB.

    CASKU analysis clearly states for their analysis they need to consider similar crimes to other minors, and when they submitted their analysis, there were no such crimes, and therefore the parents did it, and that this is a key premise of the validity of their conclusion. 2 miles away and 9 months later, Amy was raped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redeemed View Post
    No i havent seen all the clips..actually, i plan to watch the entire movie sometime soon..u got me interested...
    Fugitive is a movie that a killer kills Richard Kimball's wife, and the evidence points to Richard Kimball as the culprit. No forced entry. No fingerprints. Wife killed in the home.

    Movie was out in 1993, was hit, had Harrison Ford, and certainly the perp could have seen it and realized it is a blueprint on how to pin a crime on someone else.

    you'd never hear this from The Spin.

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