Why Burke did not kill JonBenet

Ned's post from the "Why Patsy did not kill JonBenet" thread:

Nedthan Johns said:

To imagine your theory [BlueCrab's] is correct, then one would have to believe that Patsy not knowing WHICH child, her own or someone else’s murdered her precious daughter, CHOSE to protect both children. This is absurd thinking, when she simply could have blamed the other and not Burke. IN NO way shape or form was Burke Ramsey involved in the murder or cover-up of his little sister. The child was questioned TWICE, once by a professional Psychologist. No way IMO could a 9-year-old child hide the fact that he murdered accidentally or otherwise another human being.

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Ned, I agree.

My number one reason for believing Burke didn't do it is that if he were involved in any way, I don't believe his two manipulative, controlling parents would've relinquished control of him for a second -- not on the morning of the 26th and not in the days and months following. No way. At least one of them would've supervised him 24/7.

If he were involved he'd be a walking land mine and the Ramseys wouldn't have handed him over to Fleet White -- especially since they needed White to be a clueless Bus Victim -- or anyone else, nor risked the police getting access to him when they weren't looking. And they certainly wouldn't have let him go back to school with all those kids with questions and all that opportunity to screw things up. Are you kidding? After all that effort and risk put into the staging and cover-up?

If he were involved, then the Ramseys -- under the guise of safety from terrorist kidnappers -- would've hired in teachers, shrinks, hypnotists, lobotomists, and whatever else they could think of to keep their self-preservation going, and would've supervised every move he, and they, made.

As for trusting that he would keep his mouth shut, yeah maybe for some minor secret... but not when their entire lives are hanging by a thread. They're going to trust this kid with their lives after knowing of his involvement in sexual abuse, violence and murder? They're going to trust a kid that out of control to begin with, let alone how unpredictable he'd be after the crime? Nope, don't think so.

The Ramseys handled Burke as if they figured he really knew nothing and what he might know or have seen/heard could be explained away with typical Ramsey spin.

Number one reason Burke didn't do it; Patsy did it.

Children's victories are in games, and they don't need to have their souls saved.

very good!!

I completely agree - well put. Although I think it being Burke would explain an apparent joint conspiracy to cover up the murder, I believe for the reasons outlined above it cannot be him. If it wasn't Burke I believe the joint consipiracy is explained by the parents most likely sharing blame in some way (John possibly as abuser, Patsy as the killer).

It's possible Burke inflicted the head trauma and was immediately sent to his room and only in his absence did JonBenet lapse into an uncounscious state. Both parents committed the mercy killing and staged the rest to protect Burke with Burke unaware JonBenet was mortally wounded. Burke was as manipulated as the general public.

By now Burke has surely figured it out thought may not be able to admitt it to himself.

Why would the Ramseys have such a need as they did to distance Burke from any connection to what happened from Christmas night to the present if he were just an innocent child who slept through everything and had nothing to do with JonBenet's demise?

Their actions - and Burke's - are far too suspicious to let Burke off the hook.

First, they claim they did not even wake him up upon discovering a ransom note and his sister missing! Missing from the same floor he slept on the night before. Not only were they not concerned that he may have been harmed and just lying there in his bed injured or dead - but he may KNOW something.
May have seen or heard something weird during the night that might give them a clue to where his sister is.
But they ignored him they say. They say he just slept right on through the chaos of screaming and panic.
No 9/10 yr old boy is gonna lie there still when all this is going on!
And come to find out - he didn't!
He WAS up and awake. During the 911 call.
So WHY did his parents feel a need to sheild him and lie about something seemingly so benign as waking up that morning??
Why? Because their ALIBI for everything that night and morning was: SLEEP.
JonBenet slept.
They slept.
And Burke slept.
They had no reason to lie for Burke if he was innocent. None what so ever.

I believe the reason they hustled him quickly out of the house that morning was because he had more of a chance talking THERE - with police everywhere at that time - than over at the White's locked into his Nintendo.
The Ramseys wanted him far away from the prying questions of the police.
There were none at the White's and they knew it.
No one would bug him with questions over there and they told him to just say that he didn't know anything and was "sleeping."
Unbeknownst to them a detective DID stop by the White's to chat with Burke.
Logical. They needed to find out if he might have some helpful information.
(His parents said they never asked him...)

And then, in John Ramseys own words, when they FINALLY reunited with Burke that evening and told him his sister was D-E-A-D - he didn't even react. He simply nodded his head and ran off to play!!
He never asked questions that morning why all the police were at his house, why they weren't going on the airplane and to Michigan, why everyone was crying etc.
And he asked no questions of how his sister died, who killed her, where did they find her, will they come get me too?? All the logical questions and feelings a young boy would have.

When a psychologist interviewed him (with Patsy sobbing outside the room) about the death of his sister her asessment of him was that his "lack of effect was pronounced." Indifferent.

His parents claim they never talked to him much at all about what happened to JonBenet. Think about that. You mean to tell me that HE didn't hammer them with questions and concerns???? Somebody breaks into his safe home and beats and murders his little sister who was supposedley asleep in the bedroom right down the hall from his - and he just isn't interested in it??
C'mon!!
Something is terribly wrong here.
Then his parents send him to a psychiatrist and move him to another state.
Now - at age 17 they move him yet again to another state.

I think there is a LOT we do not know about Burke Ramsey and what happened that night and since.
He has been successfully protected by his parents through very expensive means.
To this day.

Someone is going to talk someday.

Excellent post, K777angel. You pretty much said it all. Burke was not an innocent bystander. Every hour I've spent through the years pondering the case and considering all the angles, the more convinced I've become that Burke was responsible for JonBenet's death and that John and Patsy covered it up.

There are those who insist that John and Patsy would never have sent Burke back to school so soon after JonBenet's death if he'd had anything to do with it, but the fact is that there was no place on God's green earth where he would have been protected and sheltered more than he was at school. There, NO ONE--not the teachers, the kids, nor their parents--would have dared commit the "insensitive" act of questioning Burke about the events surrounding his sister's death.

IMO

Popcorn... I've thought of that, too, but IMO it wouldn't change the way the Ramseys would handle Burke. They would have no way of knowing if they'd fooled him or not and everything I said would still apply.

Even if it happened that way -- Burke not being in on the staging and not "knowing" about the fake kidnapping -- there was still the sexual abuse and the violence and the possibly sick/out of control kid the Ramseys were faced with... would they trust him out of their sight? Not IMO.

Besides, he'd have to be really dense not to figure it all out.

K777angel... All good points, , but a lot of the info about what Burke said and did comes through the Ramseys. No one knows what John and/or Patsy and Burke really talked about or what Burke was told.

Based on the enhanced 911 call, it's obvious that John basically shut Burke down: We're not speaking to you! IMO they gave him a brief explanation that morning and then told him to shut up, speak to no one and stay out of the way. With parents like the Ramseys, Burke did as he was told.

IMO all the distancing they did was to protect themselves -- to prevent Burke from being used as a witness against them.

Ivy said:

...but the fact is that there was no place on God's green earth where he would have been protected and sheltered more than he was at school.

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Hi Ivy Although I'm sure the teachers and other adults in the school environment would be sensitive to Burke, I don't believe kids can be trusted that way and, more to the point, IMO the Ramseys wouldn't have trusted Burke in the school setting if he were involved... especially when they had the perfect set-up to avoid it. I can't see these two control freaks taking that kind of chance.

Hi to you too, Britt. I hear ya, but I think the Rs felt that if they kept Burke out of school much longer, tongues--including LE tongues-- would start wagging about his possible involvement in JonBenet's death, so John and Patsy decided to chance it and send him back to school. Burke Guard was in effect there, and I truly believe that discussing JonBenet's death around Burke, much less questioning him about it, was considered tabu. As it turned out, one of the main reasons LE believed Burke had nothing to do with JonBenet's death was that he returned to school when he did. Mission accomplished for the Ramseys.

IMO

Britt said:

If he were involved he'd be a walking land mine and the Ramseys wouldn't have handed him over to Fleet White

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Yeah, this makes perfect sense until you consider the alternative. If Burke was involved, would you want him roaming around in a house full of cops who are asking constant questions--especially when you know that at ANY moment the body could be discovered? HELL NO - get him out of the house FAST!

Ivy said:

Burke was not an innocent bystander. Every hour I've spent through the years pondering the case and considering all the angles, the more convinced I've become that Burke was responsible for JonBenet's death and that John and Patsy covered it up.

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I have to agree with you Ivy. Putting Burke into the equation certainly ties up a lot of loose ends. There is no doubt he had both the ability and opportunity to commit at least part of the crime.

And while the expanded theory of BlueCrab I think is WAY off base, his basic theory that includes Doug Stine returning home with them that night should be given serious consideration. There's no other explaination why the Stine parents would quit their professional jobs in Boulder to follow a couple losers like John and Patsy to Atlanta.

Shylock said:

If Burke was involved, would you want him roaming around in a house full of cops who are asking constant questions--especially when you know that at ANY moment the body could be discovered? HELL NO - get him out of the house FAST!

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I would agree with that until I realized that Burke would be a lot more likely to let something slip to Fleet White, trusted friend, than to a strange policeperson, especially considering what an inquisitive guy White is and how involved he was in the crisis - taking notes, searching the house, asking questions. No, if Burke were involved or even knew anything, I certainly wouldn't have sent him off with the one guy who'd drag the info out of him.

In any case, I think with big John giving Burke the ol' evil eye there'd be no risk whatsoever of Burke daring to say a word to cops. Keeping Burke close, both that morning and later on, would seem natural under the circumstances, what with a terrorist kidnapper on the loose. No one would question it.

Oh, and if Burke were involved, why on earth would the Ramseys have needed to shield him from seeing the body? He already saw it. Sending him away so he wouldn't see the body suggests that he wasn't involved.

Britt said:

Oh, and if Burke were involved, why on earth would the Ramseys have needed to shield him from seeing the body? He already saw it. Sending him away so he wouldn't see the body suggests that he wasn't involved.

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Not really... If Burke smacked JB over the head the parents told him she was going to be alright and then they staged the garrote scenerio. Burke would have been told to NEVER say anything about hitting JonBenet. Then in the morning, he was told about the "big bad intruder" who took her in the night. There was even a note to prove to Burke that someone DID take her!

When Burke walked out of the house that morning he knew two things: He was never to tell anyone he had hit JonBenet over the head the night before, and some bad guy took her AFTER she recovered (from what he did to her) and went to bed.

It was a great game the Ramseys put together, and it worked perfectly.

Shylock said:

There's no other explaination why the Stine parents would quit their professional jobs in Boulder to follow a couple losers like John and Patsy to Atlanta.

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That is an excellent point Shylock and has never been answered.
Why WOULD two professionals like Glen and Susan Stine just pick up and leave their jobs and home and child's school - and move away to another state?? What was it that movitated them to make such a move?

And why weren't THEY called by the Ramseys that morning??
Afterall - they were supposedly the last ones to see the Ramseys the night before!

There are some important points to make regarding Burke and why he certainly can be involved and IMO, is involved.

First off, let's not forget that never in a million years did the Ramseys think that this would get the incredible attention that it received. They thought they had it all planned out, that it would be a homicide in Boulder that would remain unsolved and they would be far away in Atlanta with all their secrets. NO WAY did they plan for or expect that it would receive the WORLD wide attention that it got.

Let's realize that Burke was indeed coached. He told police that he was sleeping so we already know that he is capable of lying, even to the police, which is rather unusual for a 9 year old boy. He would likely be afraid to lie to police. Before you all start stating that young 9 year old boys do lie to police, yes, they do and I know that living here in Brooklyn, NY, but the type of young boy NOT intimidated and respectful of the police are those living in circumstances where police are the norm and they have learned, have been taught, have been coached that the police are not "friend". There is no reason why Burke Ramsey would have that sort of feeling toward the police. A young boy from a family such as the Ramseys, if anything would be fairly awestruck by police questioning, unless instructed otherwise.

One of the most important points to be made here is that children keep secrets all the time. How many children have kept incest and molestations secret for years and years, and often FOREVER. They have been told to keep those secrets with threats and warnings that have sealed their lips forever. Why wouldn't keeping a secret like this be any different for a young child? If they explained the consequences of revealing a family secret such as this, I have no doubt that he would keep quiet and has already shown he would lie to protect a family secret

There is no doubt in my mind that Burke is involved. Sad, but true.

popcorn said:

It's possible Burke inflicted the head trauma and was immediately sent to his room and only in his absence did JonBenet lapse into an uncounscious state. Both parents committed the mercy killing and staged the rest to protect Burke with Burke unaware JonBenet was mortally wounded. Burke was as manipulated as the general public.

By now Burke has surely figured it out thought may not be able to admitt it to himself.

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What I don't understand is if Burke did hurt his sister, why wouldn't the Ramsey's call for help right away? Burke was very young. It would be considered an accident. They could say that he was swinging the golf club to scare his sister or whatever and he accidentally hit her. I think that it would have been ruled accidental death.

I just don't see the parents staging an elaborate coverup unless something more sinister were involved. I could be wrong, but I still think that the parents were responsible for JB's death.

Barbara - good post! You are so right about children being very capable of keeping secrets!

(But did you mean that you have no doubt in your mind that Burke WAS involved - or was not?)

~Angel~

K777angel said:

Barbara - good post! You are so right about children being very capable of keeping secrets!

(But did you mean that you have no doubt in your mind that Burke WAS involved - or was not?)

~Angel~

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Thanks Angel,

I think, without a doubt, that Burke was involved. Going to edit the post now. Thanks for pointing it out.

Originally posted bynanandjim
What I don't understand is if Burke did hurt his sister, why wouldn't the Ramsey's call for help right away? Burke was very young. It would be considered an accident. They could say that he was swinging the golf club to scare his sister or whatever and he accidentally hit her. I think that it would have been ruled accidental death.

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Good point, nanandjim, but some BDIers, myself included, don't believe that the strangulation and sexual trauma were part of the staging. We believe Burke is responsible for both the strangulation and sexual trauma, as well as the head injury. There would be no way the Ramseys could pass the strangulation and sexual trauma off as accidental.

IMO