Fiber Analysis

BeanE · Oct 27, 2009

I'm starting this thread on fiber analysis because it has come up in several threads, for example, in regards to how the Henkel duct tape on Caylee's skull may relate to the Q66 Henkel duct tape found at Caylee's remains site, and also which of KC's clothing may have left fibers at Caylee's remains site.

In studying the fibers, people have noticed and posted about, e.g., blue fibers found on tape.

I put together this look at all fibers, color, type, and where they were found.

Of particular note to me are the notations regarding Q23 - Q25. Q23-25 are areas of the trunk. I'm interested in exploring if this means that fibers from the items on which the Q23-25 notations are made match to fibers found on Q23-Q25.

I've googled trying to find out what MTFVTC means, and found nothing specific. The closest I can come from what I did find is Military Treatment Facility (MTF) and Video Tele Conference (VTC). I also wondered if MTF could possibly mean 'Match To Fiber'?? Maybe just wishful thinking

My document reference is:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/GASTANK-DUCTTAPEEVIDENCE.pdf

To keep this post from being too lengthy, I'll add another post with my 'chart' of fibers after this post.

BeanE · Oct 27, 2009

Fibers
(num = numerous, sev = several, manu = manufactured)
(number, color, type)

----------
Q59 (1) (Hair Mass from back of skull):
num - white - Manu textured delustered polyester-type
one - black - Manu lustrous acrylic type
sev - black - Manu heavy delustered with voids acrylic type
sev - light blue - cotton
one - blue - cotton denim type

Q59YarnsKN - Manu white round delustered

Q59 (2) Hair mass
MTFVTC including: blue cotton, purple cotton *Q23-Q25 KN (080805005 TO LF)

----------

Q60 (1) (Debris from skull):
sev - blue - cotton

Q60 (2) blue cotton, off-white cotton, brown (d) *Q23-Q25 KN (080805005 TO LF)
Note from BeanE: Note that this has the Q23-25 notation, but does *not* have the 'MTFVTC including' notation

----------

Q62 - Q64 (1) (Duct Tape - mouth/nose)
num - white - Manu textured delustered polyester type
one - black - wool
one - blue - cotton

Q62-064 (2)
MTFVTC including: blue cotton, black wool *Q23-Q25 KN (080805005 TO LF)
off-white (d) (like Q62-Q64 KN)

----------

Q66 (1) (Duct Tape) from Q65 (gas can):
one - blue - Manu delustered
??? - white - Manu round delustered, white textured delustered
??? - blue - cotton

Q66 (2)
MTFVTC including: black cotton
off-white (d), blue (d)
Note from BeanE: Note that this has the 'MTFVTC including' notation, but does *not* have the Q23-25 notation

----------

FBI Q Numbers:
Q23 - spare tire cover (ocso 26/q21)
Q24 - left side of trunk liner (ocso 25/q20)
Q25 - right side of trunk liner (ocso 24/q19)

Just in case I've confused which Q23-25 they're referring to:

OCSO Q Numbers:
Q23 - Swabs from tip of shovel
Q24 - Piece of spare tire cover
Q25 - Pants from closet of east room of 4937 Hopespring Dr

BeanE · Oct 27, 2009

For reference:

Hairs, Fibers, Crime, and Evidence
Part 2: Fiber Evidence
by Douglas W. Deedrick
Unit Chief, Trace Evidence Unit
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Washington, DC

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july2000/deedric3.htm

magic-cat · Oct 27, 2009

So this might be a good place to discuss the blue dress from the Fusion pictures that has never appeared as having been taken into evidence in ANY documents we have seen thus far? That dress certainly appeared to be cotton and it was definitely blue but not light blue as one of the fibers is referenced as. Hmmm...wonder if the dress was IN the trunk and she had to dispose of it somewhere else or if they DO have the dress and just have not told us about it yet? Where IS that blasted dress???!!!

Thanks for the thread Beane-another great idea from the Bean!!!

cecybeans · Oct 27, 2009

I took another look at the Blockbuster video the other day and it looks to me as if KC is wearing a top that is at least partly light blue and perhaps has on blue demin shorts. Are these clothes in any inventory and are they of any interest? I'd think the outfit she had on either directly before or after that afternoon would be most likely to have fiber transfer to the duct tape.

Imbackon · Oct 27, 2009

cecybeans said:
I took another look at the Blockbuster video the other day and it looks to me as if KC is wearing a top that is at least partly light blue and perhaps has on blue demin shorts. Are these clothes in any inventory and are they of any interest? I'd think the outfit she had on either directly before or after that afternoon would be most likely to have fiber transfer to the duct tape.

Not only do I agree wholeheartedly regarding blockbusters, but maybe you can help me on this.'
I have looked repeatedly at the still photos, but can't find actual videos. When they first walk in, are there 2 or 3 people? If it is only 2, then it looks like Casey (at the rear) lifts something over her head? Perhaps removing her shirt.
This may sound OT but is not, as I want to know what clothes entered Blockbuster with as well as what clothes she left Blockbuster with, because I am not so sure they are the same.
Thanks

100%Agave · Oct 27, 2009

Would MTF stand for something like Multiple Transfer Fibers as a description of how the fibers would have gotten on the evidence?

whiteangora · Oct 27, 2009

magic-cat said:
So this might be a good place to discuss the blue dress from the Fusion pictures that has never appeared as having been taken into evidence in ANY documents we have seen thus far? That dress certainly appeared to be cotton and it was definitely blue but not light blue as one of the fibers is referenced as. Hmmm...wonder if the dress was IN the trunk and she had to dispose of it somewhere else or if they DO have the dress and just have not told us about it yet? Where IS that blasted dress???!!!

Thanks for the thread Beane-another great idea from the Bean!!!

Just adding my :twocents: about the blue dress.
It looked like polyester, Casey's clothes all looked rather cheap to me.

3doglady · Oct 27, 2009

Just a guess. Modulation Transfer Function (MTF) has to do with the sharpness of photographic imaging. So it could have something to do with the testing or type of analysis used to link the fibers. http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF.html

3doglady · Oct 27, 2009

whiteangora said:
Just adding my :twocents: about the blue dress.
It looked like polyester, Casey's clothes all looked rather cheap to me.

I agree. What color was the WTP blanket? I'm going to try and find it.

BeanE · Oct 27, 2009

3doglady said:
I agree. What color was the WTP blanket? I'm going to try and find it.

I researched this not long ago. I believe this blanket on amazon is what the blanket looked like when new:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Pooh-Printed-Fleece-Blanket/dp/B0006SCN8I/"]Amazon.com: Classic Pooh Printed Fleece Blanket: Baby[/ame]

3doglady · Oct 27, 2009

BeanE said:
I researched this not long ago. I believe this blanket on amazon is what the blanket looked like when new:

Amazon.com: Classic Pooh Printed Fleece Blanket: Baby

Thanks, Wish we knew what color KC's sheets were on the night of the 15th. I don't remember LE taking sheets into evidence and they are probably long gone.

100%Agave · Oct 27, 2009

How about MTFVTC - microspectrophotometry fiber verification for type and color?

Nope Microspectrophotometry is abbreviated MSP.

Multiple textile fibers verified by type and color?

Multiple transfer fibers verified by type and color?

Can't find anything on this at all. You would think that it would be some kind of standard notation or at the least there would be a legend attached to each report.

Does anyone know a forensics person?

wenwe4 · Oct 27, 2009

Got so excited when I read your first two posts BeanE that I couldn't wait to post so sorry in advance if someone already came up with this . . . . but could MTFVTC stand for Match Thread Fiber Verify Thread Content? Or maybe other WS'rs could help with a variation on the theme?

Harmony 2 · Oct 27, 2009

BeanE said:
I researched this not long ago. I believe this blanket on amazon is what the blanket looked like when new:

Amazon.com: Classic Pooh Printed Fleece Blanket: Baby

posting this photo (blanket on left side) to visually compare:

Was a fiber analysis done on the blanket? I do not recall. Did it have blue fibers on it?

tankgirl · Oct 27, 2009

What fibers were found in the trunk (FBI Q23-25)? Is this known yet?
Sorry if this seems an ignorant question.. I've looked and don't see anything on it.
Great thread, BeanE.

100%Agave · Oct 27, 2009

I know this is not important in the grand scheme of things but I hate not being able to figure out an abbreviation, sooooooo

How about Multiple transfer fibers (of) various type(s) (and) color(s)

AZlawyer · Oct 27, 2009

BeanE said:
Fibers
(num = numerous, sev = several, manu = manufactured)
(number, color, type)

----------
Q59 (1) (Hair Mass from back of skull):
num - white - Manu textured delustered polyester-type
one - black - Manu lustrous acrylic type
sev - black - Manu heavy delustered with voids acrylic type
sev - light blue - cotton
one - blue - cotton denim type

Q59YarnsKN - Manu white round delustered

Q59 (2) Hair mass
MTFVTC including: blue cotton, purple cotton *Q23-Q25 KN (080805005 TO LF)

----------

Q60 (1) (Debris from skull):
sev - blue - cotton

Q60 (2) blue cotton, off-white cotton, brown (d) *Q23-Q25 KN (080805005 TO LF)
Note from BeanE: Note that this has the Q23-25 notation, but does *not* have the 'MTFVTC including' notation

----------

Q62 - Q64 (1) (Duct Tape - mouth/nose)
num - white - Manu textured delustered polyester type
one - black - wool
one - blue - cotton

Q62-064 (2)
MTFVTC including: blue cotton, black wool *Q23-Q25 KN (080805005 TO LF)
off-white (d) (like Q62-Q64 KN)

----------

Q66 (1) (Duct Tape) from Q65 (gas can):
one - blue - Manu delustered
??? - white - Manu round delustered, white textured delustered
??? - blue - cotton

Q66 (2)
MTFVTC including: black cotton
off-white (d), blue (d)
Note from BeanE: Note that this has the 'MTFVTC including' notation, but does *not* have the Q23-25 notation

----------

FBI Q Numbers:
Q23 - spare tire cover (ocso 26/q21)
Q24 - left side of trunk liner (ocso 25/q20)
Q25 - right side of trunk liner (ocso 24/q19)

Just in case I've confused which Q23-25 they're referring to:

OCSO Q Numbers:
Q23 - Swabs from tip of shovel
Q24 - Piece of spare tire cover
Q25 - Pants from closet of east room of 4937 Hopespring Dr

In the notations on p. 12 of the report you linked
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/GASTANK-DUCTTAPEEVIDENCE.pdf
those are not stars before "Q23-Q25"--they are "NOT EQUAL TO" signs. I.e., these fibers do NOT match those found in the trunk.

wenwe4 · Oct 27, 2009

the references I have found so far are:

http://www.fibersource.com/sitemap.htm
http://fiber-science.com/process.html

MTF = Manufactured Textile Fibers
VTC = (verify?) Thread Characteristics

sumbunny · Oct 27, 2009

Harmony2 said:
posting this photo (blanket on left side) to visually compare:

Was a fiber analysis done on the blanket? I do not recall. Did it have blue fibers on it?

blanket looks beige/yellow, but it seems casey enjoyed wearing blue (yet another blue t-shirt)

It looks like a cotton golf shirt..imo

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