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  1. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by doogiesgirl View Post
    Is this what you are looking for?

    http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18739950/detail.html

    Pic #20 is of gatorade bottle cool blue

    I noticed and wanted to point out that in this slideshow that Doogiesgirl so kindly provided the link to, in images 19 and 20 of the Gatorade bottle there is definitely "leakage" on the paper. Presumably from the bottle. FWIW.

    It also looks like there's a lot of liquid in that bottle. I was under the impression that there was just a little bit in the bottom.
    ...my 2 cents worth. your mileage may vary.


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  3. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteangora View Post
    Okay, I have read all 800+ posts on this thread and nobody has convinced me that this new "evidence" is at all connected to Caylee's death. I have yet to see what the proportion of chloroform was in the syringe or the bottle. I keep thinking of how this spot on Suburban was a dump site and even though Casey is a ding-a-ling she's not goofy enough to inject Caylee then repackage a syringe and throw it out near the dump site. It is also my belief that she was not thinking clearly enough at that time to be trying to frame anyone.
    So, can anyone convince me otherwise?
    She was calm and cool as a cucumber the evening of the murder to snuggle with TL and stroll through BB Video.. I think she had the cool to also plot and frame. She knew it was a hasty dump after the gas can incident (imo).. a poor choice of location and that the body would be found soon.. She worked quick at framing someone possibly... Interesting too how Jesse is included in the Blanchard Park kidnap story.. All arrows are pointing back to Jesse in all the right evidentiary clues..chloroform, car, computer, BP..I am sure i'm missing some others. He would be your fallguy.


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  5. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteangora View Post
    Okay, I have read all 800+ posts on this thread and nobody has convinced me that this new "evidence" is at all connected to Caylee's death. I have yet to see what the proportion of chloroform was in the syringe or the bottle. I keep thinking of how this spot on Suburban was a dump site and even though Casey is a ding-a-ling she's not goofy enough to inject Caylee then repackage a syringe and throw it out near the dump site. It is also my belief that she was not thinking clearly enough at that time to be trying to frame anyone.
    So, can anyone convince me otherwise?
    I can't help you because I totally agree.

    ETA: if this is all connected i don't think we have seen that info yet. jmho of course.
    Last edited by JBean; 11-07-2009 at 01:28 PM.


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  7. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizzysf View Post
    But if CA/GA cleaned the car trunk and those cleaning products are to blame for the discovery of Chloroform in the trunk... how do we explain why that cleaning fluid they used would be put into a syringe and found at the dump site?
    It may be the same solvent used in the Gatorade bottle. KC could have easily thrown some in it while she was grabbing the duct tape. We also don't know what chemicals, if any, were even in the car. I keep a little collection of cleaning supplies in my trunk.

    I am also not convinced that this wasn't an attempt to frame someone else, like the zenaida page if that pans out. This girl, even if she is tres ADD on follow-through, is sneaky, shady and definitely spiteful.
    "Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" - Voltaire


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  9. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by cecybeans View Post
    Well then, sir, your beef is with the press for inaccurate reporting as well as the defense for fighting the gag order. And, in regards to poisoned pools, I see nothing has been said for the un-circumspect and rather flamboyant claims the defense team has made on any national TV show that would have them. What defense attorney leaves the gate with a "PR" and media person like TB?? What "grieving grandparents" hire a criminal attorney soon after to ostensibly "handle the media"?
    Defense attorneys must do what is necessary or the best they can to protect their client's right to a fair trial by an impartial jury. High-profile cases such as this one have a very corrosive effect on the defendant's Constitutional rights. And the obvious rush to judgment mentality in these cases carries over to society as a whole and to other cases.
    Last edited by Wudge; 11-07-2009 at 01:36 PM.
    It's not what a man knows that makes him a fool, it's what he does know that ain't so. .... Josh Billings


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  11. #876
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    Quote Originally Posted by RR0004 View Post
    I'd like to know how it seeped out in the trunk...enough to register in the air sample. If she had injected Caylee with it, I don't think it would have come through her pores...but with decomposition perhaps it could. If the bottle was capped and in the trunk, would there be seeping through the plastic? Would they be able to see that on the bottle (tiny holes)? Could she possibly have transfered the chloroform to the Gatorade bottle from another container inside the trunk? The thing is, if the chloroform had been open, she would have been at risk of being overcome.
    From what I read, chloroform stored in plastic reacts with the plastic and creates a gas (phosgene) which was used in WWI. Also, it is true that while using it she could have possibly been overcome with it as well. That's why I think she did alot of reading up on how to make it, etc. LE found traces of ethanol in the syringe. From what I've read, not only does it stabilize the chloroform, but it also accelerates its effects. The more I read about this, the more I'm astounded. I really think she knew what she was doing. Personally, IMO, she had the gloves and masks available to use while making it from CA (who is a nurse). The needle I think she stole from a BF who may have been self injecting with steroids. That's just my opinion. The high levels in the trunk IMO could be from the beginning stages of the reaction with the plastic. From what I've read it will not react with some plastics. That may be why it remained in the syringe. That's just MO. She didn't store it in a black bottle because she wasn't going to use it again. Just my

    JEFF ASHTON AND LINDA DRANE-BURDICK ARE MY HEROES!!


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  13. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by faefrost View Post
    It doesn't matter. Giving a child chloroform is a premeditated and deliberate act that results in harm to the child. It doesn't matter if death was the intended outcome or not. The very act of using the chloroform is the deliberate harm. So the charges and guilt would not change.
    Incorrect. It does matter. It matters greatly. No intent, no murder one.

    HTH
    It's not what a man knows that makes him a fool, it's what he does know that ain't so. .... Josh Billings


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  15. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudge View Post
    I agree. There's no evidence that the exact same chemical mixture in the Gatorade bottle was also found in the trunk of Casey's car. Moreover, neither the syringe nor the chemicals founds contents of the Gatorade bottle bottle prove murder, much less a premeditated murder.

    Furthermore, there's no evidence that places either the syringe or the bottle in Casey's hands, and the testosterone is evidence that points away from Casey.

    When the necessary inculpatory evidence is missing or is not highly reliable, it would be junk logic to pretend that highly reliable premises could be formed from the evidence that could prove 1st degree murder at the level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
    Wudge,

    Respectfully BBM

    At this time can only disagree with what I bolded above. I don't believe the Testosterone points away from casey but it also doesn't point to her either. Women do use Testosterone for medically necessary reasons and probably other reasons not in the legal spectrum.
    Last edited by spqr; 11-07-2009 at 01:34 PM. Reason: spelling
    -Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    -Senatus Populus Que Romanus

    -Why is it, if you help someone get away with a crime before they are arrested you are an accomplice...but if you help them get away with a crime after they are arrested you are a defense attorney?


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  17. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteangora View Post
    Okay, I have read all 800+ posts on this thread and nobody has convinced me that this new "evidence" is at all connected to Caylee's death. I have yet to see what the proportion of chloroform was in the syringe or the bottle. I keep thinking of how this spot on Suburban was a dump site and even though Casey is a ding-a-ling she's not goofy enough to inject Caylee then repackage a syringe and throw it out near the dump site. It is also my belief that she was not thinking clearly enough at that time to be trying to frame anyone.
    So, can anyone convince me otherwise?
    I hear you. You make some good points. But, I'm holding out for her fingerprints on the syringe and/or bottle. That would be a lovely way to finish out 2009 for KC. If I am disappointed in that...there are other things to keep me going.....

    I respectfully disagree though that KC was not thinking clearly enough to frame anyone. IMO, she won't go down as the brightest bulb in the box of murderers, but she has demonstrated some proficiency (to what degree, opinions may vary) for thinking on her feet in a cold, calculating manner. I think more planning went into this than we know. JMO


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  19. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudge View Post
    Incorrect. It does matter. It matters greatly. No intent, no murder one.

    HTH
    Wudge,

    sorry you don't need intent for a murder one charge as per Florida Law.

    1782.04 Murder.--

    (1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:

    1. When perpetrated from a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being;

    2. When committed by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:

    a. Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),

    b. Arson,

    c. Sexual battery,

    d. Robbery,

    e. Burglary,

    f. Kidnapping,

    g. Escape,

    h. Aggravated child abuse,

    i. Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,

    j. Aircraft piracy,

    k. Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,

    l. Carjacking,

    m. Home-invasion robbery,

    n. Aggravated stalking,

    o. Murder of another human being,

    p. Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person,

    q. Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism; or
    -Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    -Senatus Populus Que Romanus

    -Why is it, if you help someone get away with a crime before they are arrested you are an accomplice...but if you help them get away with a crime after they are arrested you are a defense attorney?


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  21. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by spqr View Post
    Wudge,

    Respectfully BBM

    At this time can only disagree with what I bolded above. I don't believe the Testosterone points away from casey but it also doesn't point to her either. Women do use Testosterone for medically necessary reasons and probably other reasons not in the legal spectrum.
    Color me not of the mind (severely so) that LE doesn't know if Casey used testosterone and, if she did, whether the testosterone in the syringe matches what Casey used.
    It's not what a man knows that makes him a fool, it's what he does know that ain't so. .... Josh Billings


  22. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudge View Post
    Defense attorneys must do what necessary or the best they can to protect their client's right to a fair trial by an impartial jury. High-profile cases such as this one have a very corrosive effect on the defendant's Constitutional rights. And the obvious rush to judgment mentality in these cases carries over to society as a whole and to other cases.
    I realize that. It just seems a tad biased or semantically hypocritical to call what the media does "poisoning" when they generally take a stand that reflects public opinion and turn around and call what the defense does to counteract it, when they use basically the same tactics, as "necessary". It is also a lot easier to make the high-profile aspect go away by allowing a gag order to be imposed. JB, who does not know how to manipulate the media properly in order to affect the desired result, complains as if he had nothing to do with her poor image. Well, he did and does.

    And, if we use the OJ case as an example, a high-profile case with an overwhelmingly negative public opinion of the defendant, it stands to reason that what goes on in the media does not necessarily have any effect whatsoever on the jury's verdict. Unless I see a professionally conducted study, and not anecdotal evidence, indicating that negative public opinion has a direct cause-and-effect result on a jury verdict, I just can't entertain that argument as anything more than personal opinion.
    "Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" - Voltaire


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  24. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by spqr View Post
    Wudge,

    sorry you don't need intent for a murder one charge as per Florida Law.

    1782.04 Murder.--

    (1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:

    1. When perpetrated from a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being;

    2. When committed by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:

    a. Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),

    b. Arson,

    c. Sexual battery,

    d. Robbery,

    e. Burglary,

    f. Kidnapping,

    g. Escape,

    h. Aggravated child abuse,

    i. Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,

    j. Aircraft piracy,

    k. Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,

    l. Carjacking,

    m. Home-invasion robbery,

    n. Aggravated stalking,

    o. Murder of another human being,

    p. Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person,

    q. Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism; or
    Casey is charged with 'premeditated' murder (1782.04 (1)(a)(1). No intent, no murder one.
    It's not what a man knows that makes him a fool, it's what he does know that ain't so. .... Josh Billings


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  26. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by cecybeans View Post
    I realize that. It just seems a tad biased or semantically hypocritical to call what the media does "poisoning" when they generally take a stand that reflects public opinion and turn around and call what the defense does to counteract it, when they use basically the same tactics, as "necessary". It is also a lot easier to make the high-profile aspect go away by allowing a gag order to be imposed. JB, who does not know how to manipulate the media properly in order to affect the desired result, complains as if he had nothing to do with her poor image. Well, he did and does.

    And, if we use the OJ case as an example, a high-profile case with an overwhelmingly negative public opinion of the defendant, it stands to reason that what goes on in the media does not necessarily have any effect whatsoever on the jury's verdict. Unless I see a professionally conducted study, and not anecdotal evidence, indicating that negative public opinion has a direct cause-and-effect result on a jury verdict, I just can't entertain that argument as anything more than personal opinion.

    I know a wee bit about O.J.'s murder trial. Let me assure you that the public was greatly split (along racial lines), and Johnny exploited that split during voir dire.

    FWIW
    It's not what a man knows that makes him a fool, it's what he does know that ain't so. .... Josh Billings


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  28. #885
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    I agree. Nothing is proven connected, yet highly suspicious. Can anyone think of a good reason why Cindy would WANT the body found? She did send DC there.. All I can think of is that Casey clued her in riddle that something would be found with her to eliminate Casey as the suspect. It would otherwise be completely to her advantage if the body had never been found.

    Casey's clues while in jail: Don't trust Jesse. Timer55.. which I always thought was her trying to give them a clue to something. The dump site is just under one minute from the A's home..google map drive time. TIMER set and go 55. I don't think the A's figured that one out and had to be clued further later..but I believe she was trying to direct them to the body and to find the Chloroform/Jesse syringe evidence she planted to get her off the hook. Just a theory of course..

    If there is one thing that is well documented about Casey, it is that her life was ALL ABOUT plotting and scheming and deceptive practices. She was always planting evidence..fake letters from her boss, co-workers about events, lanyards etc. to try and prove her job was real.. she is a plotter and schemer.
    Last edited by lizzysf; 11-07-2009 at 02:35 PM.


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