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Thread: Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

  1. #1451
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    Agreed. The concentration of chloroform in the syringe was about 1/8 or 1/9 the concentration in the Gatorade bottle. Truly an insignificant amount.
    So are any of the amounts of chloroform significant? or are they only amounts that would be found in ordinary things like tap water?
    I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.


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    I just want to express how impressed I am with this thread. It's very nice to see everyone working together and trying to understand. Whether you turn up right or wrong it's the fact that everyone is working together to better understand...and that is huge.
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    I'm late getting to this thread and I have only read about 10 pages of it.

    I've been one who has wanted to cut KC some slack because in my view she has been raised by a narcissist who "created" a monster. I felt two things..that the death might have been an accident due to neglect (we've seen accounts of how Caylee was on a balcony alone without supervision, etc). I also thought/think KC is completely NUTS (like Andrea Yaeger NUTS) and if the defense was smart they would have just gone with that. This needle with chloroform information is enough for me to stop hanging onto any illusions*. I'll leave all the illusions to CA and GA now. It's a sad revelation--but I am glad I finally really understand.
    *jurors will feel the same. Imagine...I wanted to give KC the benefit of the doubt. My mind is completely changed with the syringe.

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  6. #1454
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtElf View Post
    Wasn't her first tattoo. She also hung out there/visited several times when not there for a tattoo.

    Not disagreeing, just putting other possible scenarios out there.

    I'm not married to any one specific theory, but I am casually dating several.
    I have several tattoo's, my husband has many- we have friends who are tattoo artists but before all of this I never knew chloroform was kept in tattoo shops. It's not something one thinks about when going to hang out with friends in a shop or get new art on their bodies. Though, I suppose I just never thought to ask about such a thing.. we find out the information we are seeking if we are really seeking and it seems Casey was seeking.

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  8. #1455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imbackon View Post
    Well Cr*p then!





    I do not understand why all the news broadcasts would go on and on about Chloroform being found at the remains site, if in fact it is no different than what would be found in drinking water!

    I am also surprised that by now we have not heard anything disputing these broadcasts by today. Geeez.


    So, I am perfectly willing to take it back regarding this info being the smoking gun, but I WON'T TAKE BACK THAT I THINK CASEY IS GOOD FOR IT nor that I believe she will be convicted of murder in some degree or another.
    They do it because 'guilty' drives ratings higher. 'Not guilty' is a channel changer.

    Not finding any inculpatory evidence will not drive ratings and their paychecks higher. America is rich in evil crime reporters/analysts who manufacture evidence and poison jury pools so as to increase their following and wealth. They have ceespools for hearts.

    I previously posted Nancy Grace's lead-in to her show on Friday night, I'll repost it.

    "Tonight, we learn found at the crime scene, along with little Caylee`s remains, syringes loaded with chloroform, the super-powerful knock-out drug, the same drug found in tot mom`s car trunk. With the deadly syringes, a Gatorade bottle also loaded with chloroform, the bombshell suggesting tot mom cooked up homemade chloroform, carried it in the Gatorade bottle, then injecting it directly into her 2-year-old girl`s body, bound with duct tape."

    Caylee was not bound with duct tape. Deadly 'syringes' were not found -- take note as to how one syringe became more than one syringe, so as to come across as still more sinister. And syringes were not 'loaded' with chloroform. Those boldfaced lies were put forth to improve ratings and make money. It's evil. And it was done knowingly.

    HTH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linz View Post
    I've never known a drug user to put empty toilet paper rolls in liquid storage containers for purposes of concealment (although I agree, some of them can do some crazy/stupid things, being careless with your buy is generally not one of them). Is this a prison thing? It doesn't seem like it'd be too effective...
    lol no and it's not a "druggie" thing either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linz View Post
    I've never known a drug user to put empty toilet paper rolls in liquid storage containers for purposes of concealment (although I agree, some of them can do some crazy/stupid things, being careless with your buy is generally not one of them). Is this a prison thing? It doesn't seem like it'd be too effective...

    More of a opportunity thing. As an example...if you/someone is stopped and searched by the police..they don't usually check your apparently full gatorade bottle. Gatorade bottles have a wider mouth than the comparable soda bottles. Your walking/standing/loitering and see the police coming...you place your bottle on the ground before placing your hands up/against the wall/on the car, etc...

    Again not the best, but when your trying to keep you "kit" intact anything will suffice.

    On the flip side, if you used a syringe and just tossed it as it was...people notice and report syringes just lying around to the police(usually). but how many people call the police to report a discarded gatorade/soda bottle? KWIM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudge View Post
    They do it because 'guilty' drives ratings higher. 'Not guilty' is a channel changer.

    Not finding any inculpatory evidence will not drive ratings and their paychecks higher. America is rich in evil crime reporters/analysts who manufacture evidence and poison jury pools so as to increase their following and wealth. They have ceespools for hearts.

    I previously posted Nancy Grace's lead-in to her show on Friday night, I'll repost it.

    "Tonight, we learn found at the crime scene, along with little Caylee`s remains, syringes loaded with chloroform, the super-powerful knock-out drug, the same drug found in tot mom`s car trunk. With the deadly syringes, a Gatorade bottle also loaded with chloroform, the bombshell suggesting tot mom cooked up homemade chloroform, carried it in the Gatorade bottle, then injecting it directly into her 2-year-old girl`s body, bound with duct tape."

    Caylee was not bound with duct tape. Deadly 'syringes' were not found -- take note as to how one syringe became more than one syringe, so as to come across as still more sinister. And syringes were not 'loaded' with chloroform. Those boldfaced lies were put forth to improve ratings and make money. It's evil. And it was done knowingly.

    HTH
    Amen, Wudge!! TV is crap- it's all lies, IMO!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    Agreed. The concentration of chloroform in the syringe was about 1/5 the concentration in the Gatorade bottle. Truly an insignificant amount.
    Good to see you weighing in!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuffy View Post
    So are any of the amounts of chloroform significant? or are they only amounts that would be found in ordinary things like tap water?
    Well, I don't know how to read the plot well enough to tell you what the concentration is. I believe that the area underneath the entire plot represents the total contribution of all constituents, and the area under the curve at ~5.046 retention time represents the contribution of chloroform. so if you take the area represented by chloroform and divide it by the area under the entire curve, you get the concentration. (help me out here Bond and Dog ).

    Eyeballing it , the concentration looks insignificant.

    BTW, the most abundant compound found in the Gatorade bottle is ethanol (at ~2.472 retention time). It is ~14,000 times more abundant than chloroform. If I am reading the plot correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spqr View Post
    but how many people call the police to report a discarded gatorade/soda bottle? KWIM

    Are you still talking about a bottle that is sitting next to a child's corpse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic-cat View Post
    Since it is stated that after all the items were removed from the gatorade bottle the bottle remained 3/4 of the way full, 1/8 or 1/9 would still seem like a substantial amount...wouldn't it?
    No. If you look back through the newer threads this morning you'll see why it's not a substantial/important amount. The amount (volume) of liquid isn't important, because it's been determined that the concentration of chloroform in either liquid is no greater than what one would find in a drop of tap water.


    We really need someone to maybe alter the title of the thread.
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  22. #1463
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneLostGrl View Post
    lol no and it's not a "druggie" thing either.
    I don't imagine it was for purposes of concealment while being utilized but only while it was in the trash. Sounds like someone just probably gathered up this stuff to throw it away and maybe stuck one thing inside the other without a whole lot of thought.

    BTW - Toilet paper rolls are utilized by drug users to smoke various things (i.e. pot, heroin, crack, etc.) I posted on this earlier in the thread with several links.

    I don't think this bag had any connection to Caylee's death and probably no connection to KC.
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  24. #1464
    So we have a 56 page thread about...nothing at all, is that right?

    Next time I think we better find the document that the news is supposedly based upon instead of just taking the medias word for it. We know better than that after all the lies spun by the media in this case alone.

    But seriously, is that right, there was NO chloroform or an amount so insignificant so as to be considered perfectly within normal parameters and not deadly at all or even harmful for that matter?

    ABC provided $200,000.00 to
    Casey Anthonys defense!
    The MURDERED should not be USED to pay for the MURDERERS DEFENSE!

    American Tragedy: The defense of Casey Anthony.

    Juror No. 11 somehow made the journey from Casey is the one on trial to George may be a murderer, based on how George acted on the stand? 3 years of evidence against Casey and he throws George under the bus. Makes sense?
    What evidence indicated that George might be a murderer? Anyone?
    Weren't they to ONLY consider EVIDENCE?
    This NOT GUILTY verdict throws Caylee right back into the swamp she decomposed in. Thanks to this "impartial" jury.

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  26. #1465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudge View Post

    I previously posted Nancy Grace's lead-in to her show on Friday night, I'll repost it.

    "Tonight, we learn found at the crime scene, along with little Caylee`s remains, syringes loaded with chloroform, the super-powerful knock-out drug, the same drug found in tot mom`s car trunk. With the deadly syringes, a Gatorade bottle also loaded with chloroform, the bombshell suggesting tot mom cooked up homemade chloroform, carried it in the Gatorade bottle, then injecting it directly into her 2-year-old girl`s body, bound with duct tape."

    Caylee was not bound with duct tape. Deadly 'syringes' were not found -- take note as to how one syringe became more than one syringe, so as to come across as still more sinister. And syringes were not 'loaded' with chloroform. Those boldfaced lies were put forth to improve ratings and make money. It's evil. And it was done knowingly.

    HTH
    Respectfully snipped.

    I have to say that I didn't like that NG was using "syringeS" and "LOADED" either.
    I want to know how come they don't get into trouble for "reporting" such things and why would they do that knowing that the public can read the documents themselves. I think it makes them look kinda stupid. MOOC.
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  28. #1466
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneLostGrl View Post
    Amen, Wudge!! TV is crap- it's all lies, IMO!
    I believe we all will face a judgment day at which time we will be required to account for our actions. On that day, Nancy Grace is going to have a close encounter with truth.
    It's not what a man knows that makes him a fool, it's what he does know that ain't so. .... Josh Billings

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  30. #1467
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    Well, I don't know how to read the plot well enough to tell you what the concentration is. I believe that the area underneath the entire plot represents the total contribution of all constituents, and the area under the curve at ~5.046 retention time represents the contribution of chloroform. so if you take the area represented by chloroform and divide it by the area under the entire curve, you get the concentration. (help me out here Bond and Dog ).

    Eyeballing it , the concentration looks insignificant.

    BTW, the most abundant compound found in the Gatorade bottle is ethanol (at ~2.472 retention time). It is ~14,000 times more abundant than chloroform. If I am reading the plot correctly.

    Definition of Ethanol :
    Ethyl alcohol, the type used in alcoholic beverages, medicines, and food products. Blood levels of ethanol can be ascertained by tests that indicate the degree of intoxication. Alcohol affects brain function (central nervous system depressant) and may produce chronic illness in susceptible individuals.

    http://www.everythingbio.com/glos/de...p?word=Ethanol


    So, this ethanol could be from many things? Most likely some teenagers (or adults) partying? Is that a logical assumption?
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    Is it possible that KC has done this in the past with Caylee, squirting the drops into her mouth and had to cover both her mouth and nose with duct tape to make sure Caylee did not either spit or blow it out her nose? The pictures of Caylee with the red rash on her face now seems very disturbing. Also in some of the more recent pictures Caylee looks like she may have circles under her eyes. In the past KC may have removed the tape once Caylee was asleep but this time decided not to remove it. Makes one wonder if that is why KC referred to Caylee as the "little snothead"? As far as it being in the needle, I think KC did not want to get any on her. JMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by carrie View Post
    I don't imagine it was for purposes of concealment while being utilized but only while it was in the trash. Sounds like someone just probably gathered up this stuff to throw it away and maybe stuck one thing inside the other without a whole lot of thought.

    BTW - Toilet paper rolls are utilized by drug users to smoke various things (i.e. pot, heroin, crack, etc.) I posted on this earlier in the thread with several links.

    I don't think this bag had any connection to Caylee's death and probably no connection to KC.
    Right but I don't think this is about smoking weed out of an empty TP roll.

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  34. #1470
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonders View Post
    Respectfully snipped.

    I have to say that I didn't like that NG was using "syringeS" and "LOADED" either.
    I want to know how come they don't get into trouble for "reporting" such things and why would they do that knowing that the public can read the documents themselves. I think it makes them look kinda stupid. MOOC.
    Because most people don't bother to read documents or investigate anything to make sure it's accurate. Sadly, it seems to be human nature (IMO) to want to believe bad things much more quickly than anything good. Most people are happy to accept something as true if it goes along with their preconceived notions that someone is guilty.
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  36. #1471
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneLostGrl View Post
    Right but I don't think this is about smoking weed out of an empty TP roll.
    Why not?
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    Before final conclusions are posted and this thread begins its inevitable slide into dormancy, I would like to tell you what a privilege its been to watch those of you with analytical or scientific interests and/or skills participating in this thread. Of course I'm impressed by your knowledge, but that's not what has kept me here following along with you through 1,300 posts, hundreds of which were mostly dry, scientific data.

    I've stayed here for the long haul because it's been a pleasure to witness your determination, your resourcefulness, and most of all, your interactions with each other...your cheerful willingness to collaborate, to acknowledge your own mistakes without rancor, to give generous credit when due, and to graciously reply to questions from those with much less knowledge.

    Threads like this naturally elevate Websleuths above its counterparts, but it's WS's members whose kindness, humanity, and restraint have created an overall atmosphere that makes it a pleasure, and a privilege, to belong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudge View Post
    I believe we all will face a judgment day at which time we will be required to account for our actions. On that day, Nancy Grace is going to have a close encounter with truth.
    ITA. That woman doesn't care what the truth is as long as she pumps up her audience. OT, I know. Sorry guys.
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  40. #1474
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWG View Post
    I think I can help put the concentration of chloroform in perspective.

    Page 11578 shows the GC-MS plot with the Q238.1 finding of chloroform (I have circled in red):

    Attachment 6127

    This is a zoomed image of the top plot found on the previous page 11577. Note that in this view the chloroform barely shows as a blip relative to the fatty acids and other compounds found:

    Attachment 6128

    But even that image is a zoomed view of the bottom plot from page 11577. In that plot, chloroform does not even show up:

    Attachment 6129

    So, IMO, chloroform is an insignificant component of the Gatorade liquid.
    DogMom has posted links to these same charts as evidence that chloroform was found. She stated she was still looking for anything showing the concentration found. Did I miss some posts with further analysis today?

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  42. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonders View Post
    Respectfully snipped.

    I have to say that I didn't like that NG was using "syringeS" and "LOADED" either.
    I want to know how come they don't get into trouble for "reporting" such things and why would they do that knowing that the public can read the documents themselves. I think it makes them look kinda stupid. MOOC.
    On her show, Nancy Grace is not acting as an Officer of the Court.

    I explained why such lies are told. It's to improve ratings and make money. They know the vast majority of the public remembers headlines far moreso than anything else. And they also know that the vast majority of the public will not do their own research (or thinking). We live in a culture that features fast foods and jumps to conclusions. Shows like Nancy Grace's take advantage of our culture.
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