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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    The Van

    This may be a dumb time to start a new thread, and a dumb thread to start, but there is so little happening, that at least I am not diverting other valuable dialog...


    1. From news reports, interviews, and other information, we believe we know that the red 15 passenger van used in the crime was purchased by Terri Poff. It is quoted that she bought this van from Jon Hartsfield, after seeing his craigslist ad, to be used by her son, Patrick Leonard Gonzalez, because "his Explorer had been repossessed." Other information would lead one to believe this was actually Terri's vehicle being repossessed, on loan to Pat, but that detail seems minor. Hartsfield says he has this exact vehicle "for years" and had done much custom work and repair on it, so it was *not* recently on anyone's used car lot.

    2. That is one ugly and odd vehicle. It is distinctive, it is/was broken down and used up, it is huge, it is simply not a car one would normally think of buying without a specific need for such a behemoth, i.e. as a camper conversion, or perhaps to transport people. Surely if it were for replacement transportation, a compact SUV like a Kia or Saturn or Blazer could be found for around the same price, and be of better day to day utility fo the same price they had to pay for this one. A sedan would be even easier to find. In short, it is a very odd vehicle to buy without as previously stated, a specific purpose in mind.

    3. The interview with Blue Markham the day after the murders was instructive. He claims that salesman Tim Higgley sold a 15 passenger red Dodge van that matched the photo (except, he says, not perhaps having the window tint) to Cab Tice as part of a bunch of other vehicles, to be sold through Hispanic Auto Sales. He claims it was paid for with a check and uses the term "100% sure" in relation to the van's particulars. In addition, Blue makes some remarks about Cab being "tied in" with Mexicans, and a couple of other ominous sounding inferences. Much like Pat Poff was doing prior, to being read his rights for murder.

    A crazy, way out-there theory might include the sale of a VERY peculiar and distinctive van to Cab, who then wholesales it or otherwise disposes of it, and then Blue (BTW, the one who got all of the money and benefited from these heinous crimes, as a plain matter of fact, without any insinuation) sharing that information after the event to authorities, while the criminal gang including Pat uses a van of the same very identifiable character to affect their despicable job, intending to burn it/dispose of it, but which does not happen quick enough. So, maybe both Blue and Cab were meant to be unwitting tools in this crime -- one to pass info and the other to take the fall... or something else....

    The question I have is: Did authorities follow up with Terri Poff as to why she bought THAT particular vehicle? She apparently had the craigslist ad for the van; did she have evidence on a computer or printed out, of any other vehicles she may have considered? Give names or recollect any other people she talked to or vehicles looked at? Was she operating on a 'specification' given by Pat, perhaps to "get a huge van" or a "utility vehicle" or "the cheapest car you can find", or was she actually buying this weird thing completely on her own to spring on Pat? OR did Pat just bring her the craigslist page and say "get this for me?" because it would serve as a perfect "ringer" to the Cab-Tice van that would likely be tracked down and found not involved? It's all very strange.

    A second question is: Does/did Blue Markham have a friendship/relation to Pat Poff?

    Did authorities follow up to see if the second 'big red 15 passenger van' that supposedly went to Cab really existed? Or is it just a false lead, a faulty recollection, a coincidence?
    Last edited by Lossmitpro; 11-07-2009 at 02:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Divine Grace, Valley of Baca
    I recall wondering early on in all of this if the van had ever belonged to Byrd and Melanie. The thought came to mind when I noticed a late model multi-passenger van in a photo of the Billings' property. It's not too far-fetched to think that with all the used car lots directly and indirectly connected to the Billings that their own cast off vehicles would end up for sale on one of them. Thought maybe the red van was chosen because it had been previously seen at the house and thus wouldn't draw attention the night of the murders. I didn't dwell too much on this though figuring the origin of the van would be a part of the investigation and easily checked. Also, Ashley obviously would have recognized it if it had once belonged to her mother and father and informed LE.

    I like living. I have sometimes been wildly, despairingly, acutely miserable, racked with sorrow,
    but through it all I still know quite certainly that just to be alive is a grand thing. —Agatha Christie

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    In his video interview Patrick Gonzalez makes reference to the fact he wanted a big vehicle for his six kids, plus karate equipment and mats...

    I still think there was some sort of switcheroo/misdirection planned, but I don't know how to go any further on that theory unless more information comes out about the specifics of the purchase by his mother.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    So Illinois
    I have always thought Blue had some involvement in this - but - who knows?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Somewhere great!!
    Great theory!!!! I still don't believe all is clean in the family - MO

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