View Poll Results: Who owns the smoke and mirrors?

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  • PR and/or JR

    9 90.00%
  • RDI

    1 10.00%
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  1. #16
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    Sorry, HOTYH, I'm struggling to get further than the remarkable assertion that the fact that most children are murdered by their family is irrelevant. If you view that as irrelevant, then I don't see that you are a reasonable person with whom to debate the issue. This is so obviously a pertinent aspect of this case that it beggars belief that you are calling it irrelevant.


    However, here's a bit more for you:

    IDI ignore the fact that the materials for the RN came from the family home and the note itself included family jokes (eg. 'Fat Cats' and that we had a computer guru and ex-naval man with famed take-charge capabilities (see DoI) and a stellar journalism major in the home who, just days before, had shown her capacity for writing by coming up with verses for some 40 guests at a party and her capacity for extemporising by coming up with extra verses for unexpected guests.

    IDI ignore the fact that JBR was wiped down and redressed, wrapped papoose-like with her favourite nightie close by and, in all probability, placed in new underwear.

    IDI ignore the fact that the Ramseys' clothes were not tested, nor were they searched or questioned when they left the house and that Pam hauled away a carful of materials from the home.

    IDI imagine that asking for 118k from a multi-millionaire is a reasonable attempt at extortion but also expect us to believe that these extortionists would leave their collateral behind and make not a single attempt to extract the money once they had left the house. They see no problem in John claiming that he secured the house and Burke confirming this, then John changing his mind on this subject. Or in a millionaire apparently caring so little for his family that he didn't take minimal precautions to protect them by making sure the doors were locked and that alarms were in place(and in fact repeated the same behaviour to get burgled in Atlanta a few years later).

    IDI don't worry that Patsy suggested that her friends' children were in danger then refused to help police find this killer on the loose for months, and in fact, allowed her own son to go to school, without police protection, a matter of days after the murder.


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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    Sorry, HOTYH, I'm struggling to get further than the remarkable assertion that the fact that most children are murdered by their family is irrelevant. If you view that as irrelevant, then I don't see that you are a reasonable person with whom to debate the issue. This is so obviously a pertinent aspect of this case that it beggars belief that you are calling it irrelevant.


    However, here's a bit more for you:

    IDI ignore the fact that the materials for the RN came from the family home and the note itself included family jokes (eg. 'Fat Cats' and that we had a computer guru and ex-naval man with famed take-charge capabilities (see DoI) and a stellar journalism major in the home who, just days before, had shown her capacity for writing by coming up with verses for some 40 guests at a party and her capacity for extemporising by coming up with extra verses for unexpected guests.

    IDI ignore the fact that JBR was wiped down and redressed, wrapped papoose-like with her favourite nightie close by and, in all probability, placed in new underwear.

    IDI ignore the fact that the Ramseys' clothes were not tested, nor were they searched or questioned when they left the house and that Pam hauled away a carful of materials from the home.

    IDI imagine that asking for 118k from a multi-millionaire is a reasonable attempt at extortion but also expect us to believe that these extortionists would leave their collateral behind and make not a single attempt to extract the money once they had left the house. They see no problem in John claiming that he secured the house and Burke confirming this, then John changing his mind on this subject. Or in a millionaire apparently caring so little for his family that he didn't take minimal precautions to protect them by making sure the doors were locked and that alarms were in place(and in fact repeated the same behaviour to get burgled in Atlanta a few years later).

    IDI don't worry that Patsy suggested that her friends' children were in danger then refused to help police find this killer on the loose for months, and in fact, allowed her own son to go to school, without police protection, a matter of days after the murder.
    It doesn't matter that JR's a computer guru because we're not necessarily looking for one. It doesn't matter if PR is a stellar journalism major because we're really not looking for one of those either. There's no way to deduce computer guru or journalist from the ransom note. Thats you're speculation again. The author can't even spell business, what do you mean journalist. This journalist would get fired first day.

    It doesn't matter that the materials for the RN came from the home because an intruder can use these items.

    Most of your post is scuttlebut (hearsay) that ignores the core evidence items. RDI is contentious on practically all the core items of evidence, opposing prima facie explanations at every turn. Its almost as if we're discussing two different cases. RDI has taken years to fabricate a paradigm that attempts to account for all evidence that does not fit by spinning it into something else. Please note that RDI has spun all core evidence items away from prima facie. Anything new that comes up is IDI on the face of it, but is instantly spun to RDI.

    Its so obvious it has become pathetic.

    I am fully convinced that the smoke and mirrors belongs to RDI because I have watched it happen. It happened with underwear DNA (spun to factory worker), misspelled words (spun to deliberate), and now touch DNA (spun to 'mixture of JR and PR DNA').
    Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 11-09-2009 at 02:24 AM.


  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post



    I suppose one could make the accusation that they don't need to be because it doesn't really matter who did it as much as believing that the Rs did NOT do it. Not that I AM making that accusation, mind you. But it crops up in my mind every so often.



    None? NONE? Oh, really?

    Really.

    You've no proof of any RDI contention on any of the core evidence items. For example, you've no proof that the 2nd ligature was never used, that the garrote was not used to kill, that the headbash was an accident. No proof of any contention.

    It DOES matter who did it. Thats the whole problem.


  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    It doesn't matter that JR's a computer guru because we're not necessarily looking for one. It doesn't matter if PR is a stellar journalism major because we're really not looking for one of those either. There's no way to deduce computer guru or journalist from the ransom note. Thats you're speculation again. The author can't even spell business, what do you mean journalist. This journalist would get fired first day.

    It doesn't matter that the materials for the RN came from the home because an intruder can use these items.

    Most of your post is scuttlebut (hearsay) that ignores the core evidence items. RDI is contentious on practically all the core items of evidence, opposing prima facie explanations at every turn. Its almost as if we're discussing two different cases. RDI has taken years to fabricate a paradigm that attempts to account for all evidence that does not fit by spinning it into something else. Please note that RDI has spun all core evidence items away from prima facie. Anything new that comes up is IDI on the face of it, but is instantly spun to RDI.

    Its so obvious it has become pathetic.

    I am fully convinced that the smoke and mirrors belongs to RDI because I have watched it happen. It happened with underwear DNA (spun to factory worker), misspelled words (spun to deliberate), and now touch DNA (spun to 'mixture of JR and PR DNA').

    Really, but we are to believe the spin of a SFF....Third party DNA, JonBenet's and parents makes sense...At least cynic came up with a scenario ..Cause we know PR touched the lonjohns by her own words...Then JR was holding her by the waist when carrying her body upstairs...Then pretty sure JonBenet would had touched her clothes....

    And also IDI still have no other evidence of intruders and DNA ok, but that can fail like everything else can't it...

    And you go by the media going IDI....Well if I was handling this case,I sure wouldn't link nothing out and have another circus....But Chief Bekner said they already questioned over a hundred people in this case now I wonder if that the ones with records of sex crimes against children....Get those out of the way first,I guess....
    Knowledge of time is precious.Wisdom of truth is more precious than time..Opinions I write are mine..


  6. #20
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    SFF isn't a spin. I didn't add to that or subtract from it. It is what it is.


  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    SFF isn't a spin. I didn't add to that or subtract from it. It is what it is.


    In someone's story,Now you believe SSF....But JR and PR went against that from the beginning...They first said LHP,Santa,then White....Where do you see a SFF when the R's didn't....And some where three intruders would had made mistakes other than DNA...Now JR read the RN and still went against it...PR ,now she just isn't sure if she did or not...Right,if she didn't,how did she know the ending of it to say to 911....
    Last edited by Ravyn; 11-09-2009 at 02:50 AM.
    Knowledge of time is precious.Wisdom of truth is more precious than time..Opinions I write are mine..


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  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    SFF isn't a spin. I didn't add to that or subtract from it. It is what it is.
    Hi Hotyh.

    For sure Hotyh, the SFF theory, has not often been touted as the most probable, from the online history I've read, so it's open to critique.
    The hybrid pedophile seems the generic IDI solution?

    Reverse French Bowlines
    http://webdesignsbycarson.com/jonbenetramsey.html

    Hotyh, one would have to be well versed in knots, or atleast more knowledgable than I, (err, the rabbit comes out of the hole...),
    but heck, Hotyh, even the knots have a french 'twist'!


  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    Really.

    You've no proof of any RDI contention on any of the core evidence items. For example, you've no proof that the 2nd ligature was never used, that the garrote was not used to kill, that the headbash was an accident. No proof of any contention.

    It DOES matter who did it. Thats the whole problem.

    You are right,it does matter about who killed JonBenet...No matter if it was the R's,friend or intruder...About the cord on the wrist I often wonder if somehow she could had been hogtied and let out of it before rigor mortis even had a chance to set in....
    Knowledge of time is precious.Wisdom of truth is more precious than time..Opinions I write are mine..


  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    What happens somewhere else isn't relevant to what happened there. Everybody else in every house in the neighborhood could've abused their kids.

    Doesn't mean they did.
    Fair enough. But to me, it's a question of probabilities.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    Really.
    Whatever you say, cowboy. I sympathize. It's a horrible thing to consider.

    It DOES matter who did it. Thats the whole problem.
    Well, it's just that listening to some IDIs, one gets the feeling that they're not really interested in finding the real killer, just as long as the Rs aren't inconvenienced. Like I said, I could make that accusation, but I won't.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


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  14. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Whatever you say, cowboy. I sympathize. It's a horrible thing to consider.



    Well, it's just that listening to some IDIs, one gets the feeling that they're not really interested in finding the real killer, just as long as the Rs aren't inconvenienced. Like I said, I could make that accusation, but I won't.
    The real killer, if an intruder, is safe.

    The real killer is safe because RDI is still looking at the parents, and spinning every bit of information, now even 'unknown male DNA,' into an RDI scenario.

    The real killer is safe because IDI sits and waits for a DNA match for someone who is certainly not subject to arrest in any jurisdiction.
    Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 11-09-2009 at 10:01 PM.


  15. #27
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    The real killer is safe because she's dead. So...safe from prosecution, yes. Safe from justice? I wouldn't bet on it.
    Last edited by DeeDee249; 11-09-2009 at 10:31 PM.
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    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


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  17. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    The real killer is safe because she's dead. So...safe from prosecution, yes. Safe from justice? I wouldn't bet on it.
    Well, at least we agree the real killer is safe from prosecution.


  18. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    The real killer, if an intruder, is safe.

    The real killer is safe because RDI is still looking at the parents, and spinning every bit of information, now even 'unknown male DNA,' into an RDI scenario.

    The real killer is safe because IDI sits and waits for a DNA match for someone who is certainly not subject to arrest in any jurisdiction.
    Oh really.
    If IDI, the real killer is safe because ML made sure that every person whose DNA didn't match is no longer called a suspect.

    If IDI,the real killer is safe because the R's probably knew exactly who was involved and decided to keep their mouths shut,remember,they didn't believe it was a SFF from second one.

    If IDI,the real killer is safe because some incompetent DA people didn't test evidence ,following B.Morgan's instructions.

    And the list goes on....

    So if you wanna blame all this on someone look closer to "home".
    Last edited by madeleine; 11-10-2009 at 03:56 AM.


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  20. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    The real killer, if an intruder, is safe.

    The real killer is safe because RDI is still looking at the parents, and spinning every bit of information, now even 'unknown male DNA,' into an RDI scenario.

    The real killer is safe because IDI sits and waits for a DNA match for someone who is certainly not subject to arrest in any jurisdiction.
    You surprise me, HOTYH. That was fair. (Though you might as well be talking to yourself with that crack about RDI "spinning")
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


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