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  1. #271
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    Thinking of Pat today and her beloved family and friends.
    Hope today brings some answers.


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  3. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynejo View Post
    Rita,
    Is there a way to have the saw mill searched and maybe even any computers your dad might have used. Just saw a thing on 20/20 where key evidence against a husband was suspitious computer searches.
    I don't think there are any computers at the sawmill and don't think the ex-husband has ever used a computer.


  4. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowmancabin View Post
    I don't think there are any computers at the sawmill and don't think the ex-husband has ever used a computer.
    My thinking also - no computers to search. And we are being VERY careful regarding finding anything that might be evidence and maintaining custody chain. It has to be looked at by LE in the place it's found before being removed, and then has to be removed by LE.

    KHP is flying their helicopter again today, searching mostly water.

    We are so grateful for everyone's support, prayers, and hours volunteered. I hope someday Mom will get to know every detail of how people have helped.
    Tony/Michele, Lonnie/Rita, Gene/Angie, David/Lori
    "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1
    "When calamity comes, the wicked are brought down, but even in death the righteous have a refuge." Proverbs 14:32


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  6. #274
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    Rita,

    Any reaction from the reward money yet? Was really hoping that would induce someone to come forward. Glad to hear KHP is on the search again.

    Am still praying hard for your Mom and all of you. I miss her.


  7. #275
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    Like everyone else, I too thought the ex- was the natural person to have had a hand in this. But let's assume for a minute that that is not the case.

    Let's assume this was a straight home invasion/burglary, one which went wrong. If this was the case, it could explain the most baffling aspect of the case, to me---why Mrs. K. was removed from the home. If this were a retaliation crime, surely she would not have been, as it would complicate matters for the perp(s) to take someone with them.

    But in a burglary, it might make sense---Mrs. K. refused to go gently along with the crime, fought back hard, and may have escaped the initial scene and run into the yard. From there, it may have been expeditious for the perp(s) to remove her not back to the house, but to the vehicle he/they came in. This could also explain why nothing was taken from the house---the getaway was in progress once they'd recovered control of the scene, and the perp(s) fled.

    This scenario might also explain the presence of the distinctive money-clip. I'm hoping LE is doing their due diligence on that piece and checking it against records of other burglaries in the area (not only in KS, but in rural MO, NE, and IA) in terms of what was taken. A perp might have stolen that in other break-in, slipped it into his pocket, and forgotten about it. Then, if he wore, say, the same jacket to another crime, the money-clip may have slipped out during the ensuing fracas. It's pocket-sized, it's the sort of thing a criminal would latch onto, and it's easily lost.

    I'm thinking that, if they can locate that clip as an item missing in another burglary, LE may be on the path of finding out who did this.

    Prayers for all.


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  9. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    Like everyone else, I too thought the ex- was the natural person to have had a hand in this. But let's assume for a minute that that is not the case.

    Let's assume this was a straight home invasion/burglary, one which went wrong. If this was the case, it could explain the most baffling aspect of the case, to me---why Mrs. K. was removed from the home. If this were a retaliation crime, surely she would not have been, as it would complicate matters for the perp(s) to take someone with them.

    But in a burglary, it might make sense---Mrs. K. refused to go gently along with the crime, fought back hard, and may have escaped the initial scene and run into the yard. From there, it may have been expeditious for the perp(s) to remove her not back to the house, but to the vehicle he/they came in. This could also explain why nothing was taken from the house---the getaway was in progress once they'd recovered control of the scene, and the perp(s) fled.

    This scenario might also explain the presence of the distinctive money-clip. I'm hoping LE is doing their due diligence on that piece and checking it against records of other burglaries in the area (not only in KS, but in rural MO, NE, and IA) in terms of what was taken. A perp might have stolen that in other break-in, slipped it into his pocket, and forgotten about it. Then, if he wore, say, the same jacket to another crime, the money-clip may have slipped out during the ensuing fracas. It's pocket-sized, it's the sort of thing a criminal would latch onto, and it's easily lost.

    I'm thinking that, if they can locate that clip as an item missing in another burglary, LE may be on the path of finding out who did this.

    Prayers for all.
    Burglary, to me, doesn't make sense. It would have been obvious to this person that she was home - lights on, vehicle in the driveway. They would have known they'd have a confrontation. She had been gone most of the day, and was usually gone at least a couple days a week for most of the day. You'd think if they'd been checking out her place for robbery they'd pick a time when she was gone. I'm positive it was not a robbery gone wrong - only my opinion. They have checked into the money clip but to what extent I don't know.

    Thank you for your prayers.
    Tony/Michele, Lonnie/Rita, Gene/Angie, David/Lori
    "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1
    "When calamity comes, the wicked are brought down, but even in death the righteous have a refuge." Proverbs 14:32


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  11. #277
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    Thing is....if robbery were the motive, why does it appear that nothing was taken?
    Dee


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  13. #278
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    I lived in San Antonio for eight years, and read of countless cases when home invaders didn't care if anyone was there or not---they were drugged up and just got in either by ringing the bell or opening the door or breaking down the door. These acts took place both in the city and in the country. It frequently appeared that there was no forethought whatsoever as to what might have been available to steal---the idea was just locate a residence, then smash and grab. If circumstances had have gotten out of hand, this would account for nothing being taken.

    We in rural areas---where I grew up, and where I now live---tend to think that the world is a rational place. But it's not, especially when dealing with drug addicts.

    I just hope Mrs. K. will be found safe and sound. And more prayers toward that end. I'm a born and bred Kansan, and this doesn't set well with me at all.


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  15. #279
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    I grew up in a rural / farming community too, and most break-ins/thefts are for things that are easily sold....tools, quads, electronics....I just have a hard time seeing anybody attacking Pat, abducting her, and then leaving empty-handed had theft been a motive.
    Rita, you're all in our thoughts tonight. Hugs from afar to all of you and yours.
    Dee


  16. #280
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    Did she keep any financial records at her job? Or perhaps for any kind of church or charitable organization? In other words, was there any possibility that she had come upon some kind of incriminating information about someone else? It just seems that they needed her, and alive, to go with them somewhere. So, I was thinking about a case where she would be able to withdraw funds that the person could not get access to without her being there. Or did she have the keys or code to anything that they would need her to actually help them get into some place of interest to them?


    Just thinkin' here about some possibilities.


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  18. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    Like everyone else, I too thought the ex- was the natural person to have had a hand in this. But let's assume for a minute that that is not the case.

    Let's assume this was a straight home invasion/burglary, one which went wrong. If this was the case, it could explain the most baffling aspect of the case, to me---why Mrs. K. was removed from the home. If this were a retaliation crime, surely she would not have been, as it would complicate matters for the perp(s) to take someone with them.

    But in a burglary, it might make sense---Mrs. K. refused to go gently along with the crime, fought back hard, and may have escaped the initial scene and run into the yard. From there, it may have been expeditious for the perp(s) to remove her not back to the house, but to the vehicle he/they came in. This could also explain why nothing was taken from the house---the getaway was in progress once they'd recovered control of the scene, and the perp(s) fled.

    This scenario might also explain the presence of the distinctive money-clip. I'm hoping LE is doing their due diligence on that piece and checking it against records of other burglaries in the area (not only in KS, but in rural MO, NE, and IA) in terms of what was taken. A perp might have stolen that in other break-in, slipped it into his pocket, and forgotten about it. Then, if he wore, say, the same jacket to another crime, the money-clip may have slipped out during the ensuing fracas. It's pocket-sized, it's the sort of thing a criminal would latch onto, and it's easily lost.

    I'm thinking that, if they can locate that clip as an item missing in another burglary, LE may be on the path of finding out who did this.

    Prayers for all.
    The money clip could have been planned to throw everyone off too.. something that they never used and picked up somewhere 20 years ago and had in a junk drawer.... plant it at the scene (or plan to plant it at the scene) and make everyone chase a blind lead... I don't watch CSI or anything, but I read a lot and since I think about this case and your family a lot, I come up w/ all kinds of scenarios. You've been on my minds all day again. I went to bed asking my husband to brainstorm w/ me where she could be and your mom was the first thing on my mind this morning. We are all praying with you and FOR YOU all for some news.
    Last edited by Daisy_May; 11-22-2009 at 08:04 PM. Reason: left something out


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  20. #282
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    Great questions, Raeann, and I thought about that too, Daisy May, particularly since the 1922 Peace Dollar used in the clip is not a rare coin at all. Does anyone know where that money-clip was found, in relation to the scene of the crime?

    (I particularly thought the gimme cap might have been planted since those things are so easy to come by.)

    Oh, and one other thing: if it's like most are assuming, why wasn't it staged to look like a robbery, with things being taken?
    Last edited by wfgodot; 11-22-2009 at 08:20 PM. Reason: added a bit


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  22. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    I lived in San Antonio for eight years, and read of countless cases when home invaders didn't care if anyone was there or not---they were drugged up and just got in either by ringing the bell or opening the door or breaking down the door. These acts took place both in the city and in the country. It frequently appeared that there was no forethought whatsoever as to what might have been available to steal---the idea was just locate a residence, then smash and grab. If circumstances had have gotten out of hand, this would account for nothing being taken.

    We in rural areas---where I grew up, and where I now live---tend to think that the world is a rational place. But it's not, especially when dealing with drug addicts.

    I just hope Mrs. K. will be found safe and sound. And more prayers toward that end. I'm a born and bred Kansan, and this doesn't set well with me at all.
    I do realize that if drugs are involved, then there's no point in trying to make sense of how and why this happened. There are drugs around here but not a lot of crime associated with them, other than possession. It still is so ironic to me that this happened to my Mom, of all people, that she finally had a good, happy life, and being as cautious as she is, only to have some person abduct her from her home. That sounds so crazy even as I type it, because things like this just don't happen around here.

    Today, I walked around her yard and sat in her chair and just begged God to please give us some answers...let us see where she is. I can't believe that Thanksgiving is only a few days away and possibly she won't be with us for it. Is it bad to say that I really, really don't like Thanksgiving anymore? I remember 2 yrs ago, after Taylor passed away, Thanksgiving fell exactly 2 weeks after her death. It was the most awful day that I can ever remember, so sad it just made you sick to your stomach, and now it's happening all over again.

    Someone out there knows something - PLEASE HELP US TO FIND HER.
    Tony/Michele, Lonnie/Rita, Gene/Angie, David/Lori
    "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1
    "When calamity comes, the wicked are brought down, but even in death the righteous have a refuge." Proverbs 14:32


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  24. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    I lived in San Antonio for eight years, and read of countless cases when home invaders didn't care if anyone was there or not---they were drugged up and just got in either by ringing the bell or opening the door or breaking down the door. These acts took place both in the city and in the country. It frequently appeared that there was no forethought whatsoever as to what might have been available to steal---the idea was just locate a residence, then smash and grab. If circumstances had have gotten out of hand, this would account for nothing being taken.

    We in rural areas---where I grew up, and where I now live---tend to think that the world is a rational place. But it's not, especially when dealing with drug addicts.

    I just hope Mrs. K. will be found safe and sound. And more prayers toward that end. I'm a born and bred Kansan, and this doesn't set well with me at all.
    Here is part of an earlier post of mine:

    Nothing taken from her house, a struggle takes place on the porch. One of the dogs alerted at the end of the sidewalk where we assume she was put into a vehicle. They get down the driveway and head west where about 1/2 mile down the road, she manages to get away from them and evidence is left at the scene. Dogs lost the scent about another mile and a half down the road continuing west. Question: if someone wanted her "out of the way" why did they not just do something to her at the front door and leave her there? When she fought back and got away from them down the road, why didn't they just cut their losses and let her go, or take her life then and leave her there? Why were they so intent on TAKING her with them? She was so cautious, she would NOT have opened the door to a stranger, unless they tricked her somehow but I can't imagine how they did it. She would have seen and heard a vehicle driving up her driveway, even w/ it's lights off, and if it did have the lights off, she would have been on her phone calling us. So did she know this person, open the door to them, and then things went really wrong? It is impossible to imagine who she knows who would do something like this. We circle and circle back around to the same answers every time. It just makes no sense.

    You'd just think if they were drugged up, they would have given up when she got out of the vehicle and got the heck out of there.
    Tony/Michele, Lonnie/Rita, Gene/Angie, David/Lori
    "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1
    "When calamity comes, the wicked are brought down, but even in death the righteous have a refuge." Proverbs 14:32


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  26. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by raeann View Post
    Did she keep any financial records at her job? Or perhaps for any kind of church or charitable organization? In other words, was there any possibility that she had come upon some kind of incriminating information about someone else? It just seems that they needed her, and alive, to go with them somewhere. So, I was thinking about a case where she would be able to withdraw funds that the person could not get access to without her being there. Or did she have the keys or code to anything that they would need her to actually help them get into some place of interest to them?


    Just thinkin' here about some possibilities.
    As far as the evidence released - the money clip and ballcap - I think LE is pretty sure they are the personal belongings of someone involved in this.

    As far as her two part-time jobs, no she would not have anything to do w/ anything personal - no financial records, etc. She had a cleaning job for a local business and those people I know personally, and a packing job for a moving company where she worked w/ a team of people and sometimes didn't even meet the people who the stuff belonged to. Not that anything is a sure thing but LE has looked into it. She worked at the packing job w/ one of her best friends, and the best friends' family owns the company.
    Tony/Michele, Lonnie/Rita, Gene/Angie, David/Lori
    "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1
    "When calamity comes, the wicked are brought down, but even in death the righteous have a refuge." Proverbs 14:32


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