View Poll Results: Your reaction? Does it matter?
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My reaction would be closer to the Goldmans.
My reaction would be closer to the Ramseys.
Behavior subsequent to a crime is relevant with respect to guilt or innocence.
Behavior subsequent to a crime is irrelevant with respect to guilt or innocence.
11-15-2009, 09:00 PM #1Registered User
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
If your child were murdered…
Ron Goldman was murdered by O.J. Simpson
Assume that JonBenet Ramsey was murdered by an intruder or group of intruders (SFF)?
If your child were murdered, would your reaction be closer to that of the Ramsey’s or would it be similar to that of Fred and Kim Goldman
The “grief” and “anger” of the Ramseys:
One of John Ramsey’s first acts was to call his lawyer
John Ramsey’s demeanor when he initially greeted Arndt was cordial.
Arndt says that the Ramsey's did not spend those morning hours in each other’s company, but that Patsy stayed in the sunroom with friends and John stayed mostly in his den, and read his mail in the kitchen.
Thirty-seven minutes after finding JonBenet's body, a detective overheard John Ramsey talking by phone to his pilot and arranging a trip to Atlanta that evening for himself, his wife and son.
Something seemed odd to French, and later he would recall how the grieving mother's eyes stayed riveted on him. He remembered her gaze, and her awkward attempt to conceal it- peering at him through splayed fingers held over her eyes.
Though they were faced with the most calamitous tragedy of their lives, he did not see them console each other. But it was the image of Patsy weeping and watching him that haunted French, especially after he learned that she had been sitting directly over the spot-less than 15 feet below-where her child's body lay.
The grief and anger of the Goldman family:
"Did you love your son?" attorney Daniel M. Petrocelli asked gently.
"Oh God, yes," Goldman answered, gripping a tissue.
"Do you miss him?" Petrocelli asked.
The barely audible answer: "More than you can imagine."
Twice, Goldman's anger burst through his grief and he turned fiercely to stare at Simpson, who sat somberly at the defense table looking straight ahead. Both moments came while Goldman was recounting Ron's dream of opening a restaurant. Ron had designed the floor plan, he told jurors, in the shape of the Egyptian ankh symbol. He wore the same symbol on a necklace. Sobbing openly, Goldman explained: "It stands for eternal life."
He shot a venomous glance at Simpson, then added: "He doesn't wear it anymore."
Goldman was the 65th and final witness to testify for the plaintiffs. Simpson's team then launched its defense by calling a familiar figure: former Los Angeles Police Det. Philip L. Vannatter.
Seven months later, he was slain--stabbed more than 30 times in his head, neck, chest and legs and left to die draped over a tree stump near the bloodied body of Nicole Simpson. "There isn't a day that goes by that I don't think of him," Goldman said. "My life will never, ever be the same."
-Simpson Civil Trial
Juanita: And you actually, in what I just said, you actually don’t use OJ’s name, you refer to him as “the killer”?
Kim: Yes, I haven’t heard his name since 1994 probably.
Juanita: Is that right? So tell me about that. Why not use his name?
Kim: … it frustrates me and I think he’s a killer. He murdered my brother, he stabbed him in the heart and he nearly decapitated Nicole. That’s what he is.
Fred: And additionally, I would add that when people use his name which are his initials, I think they think of him as this “ex-big-deal-football-player” and the bottom line is that’s not who he really is. Who he really is is a vicious murderer.
…No, I think as Kim said, Pablo virtually verifies everything that we’ve known for years. That he’s a monster.
Kim: You’re incredibly articulate, Dad. I echo everything that you just said. I also want to add specifically as it relates to this specific book that I hope that the next time someone goes to shake his hand or get an autograph from him that they are reminded that those are the hands that killed two people. And I hope that our efforts and the efforts of this country to ensure that justice prevails that he is pushed into a state of exile and you know and that he just sort of falls by the wayside. That would be fantastic for us.
Goldman tells Inside Scoop Live he believes the book to be Simpson’s admission of guilt and confession. “[The public] will learn in his own words what kind of monster he is,” Fred says. “This man is a monster and a piece of trash, calling him a murderer is not enough.”
14 years after the death of Ron Goldman, there is more rage evident than was ever shown by the Ramseys.
Would people who suffered a similar loss be more likely to compare their feelings to that of the Ramseys or would they be more likely to experience the pain and anguish of the Goldmans?
Here is an example of one person who suffered similar loss:
For me, the most haunting and lasting images from that whole ghastly saga are those of Fred Goldman, who bravely and tearfully faced the media and the entire country night after night, and how we wept along with him as we shared his pain, anguish and heartbreak over the devastating loss of the handsome, promising son he loved so much. So to have Simpson, the murderous beast, get off scot free was simply unthinkable.
Watching the Goldmans and the Browns live out this horrific nightmare so publicly, I could not imagine what it must've been like to be them. It was all so unfathomable to me. Until the night of November 1, 2006, when I was thrust into my own nightmare when I found my wife, the actor/writer/director Adrienne Shelly, the love of my life, brutally murdered in her Greenwich Village office. And in that split second, as Joan Didion wrote in The Year of Magical Thinking, life as I knew it was over. I no longer had to imagine what it was like to be Fred Goldman. I was Fred Goldman.
I will skip the gory details, which are just a mouse-click away for anyone who's interested. Though Adrienne's killer, Diego Pilco, was convicted of first-degree manslaughter and received a sentence of just 25 years without parole--not the murder conviction and 25-to-life we hoped for--justice was served on some level. While there's no such thing as true closure, and one can never truly ever forget such tragedy, my family and I could at least begin to move on with our lives knowing that our soulless, murderous beast would be locked away in prison, in solitary, for a very long time. The Goldmans and the Browns were not afforded this peace of mind
Let’s switch names and see if the story sounds believable. You decide.
For me, the most haunting and lasting images from that whole ghastly saga are those of John Ramsey, who bravely and tearfully faced the media and the entire country night after night, and how we wept along with him as we shared his pain, anguish and heartbreak over the devastating loss of the handsome, promising daughter he loved so much. So to have the SFF, those murderous beasts, get off scot free was simply unthinkable.
Watching the Ramseys live out this horrific nightmare so publicly, I could not imagine what it must've been like to be them. It was all so unfathomable to me. Until the night of November 1, 2006, when I was thrust into my own nightmare when I found my wife, the actor/writer/director Adrienne Shelly, the love of my life, brutally murdered in her Greenwich Village office. And in that split second, as Joan Didion wrote in The Year of Magical Thinking, life as I knew it was over. I no longer had to imagine what it was like to be John Ramsey. I was John Ramsey.
I will skip the gory details, which are just a mouse-click away for anyone who's interested. Though Adrienne's killer, Diego Pilco, was convicted of first-degree manslaughter and received a sentence of just 25 years without parole--not the murder conviction and 25-to-life we hoped for--justice was served on some level. While there's no such thing as true closure, and one can never truly ever forget such tragedy, my family and I could at least begin to move on with our lives knowing that our soulless, murderous beast would be locked away in prison, in solitary, for a very long time. The Ramseys were not afforded this peace of mind
Last edited by cynic; 11-15-2009 at 10:51 PM.“It saddens me that 20 years after my sister Nicole’s murder, we are still seeing the same crimes, just different names, over and over again.”
- Denise Brown (sister of Nicole Brown Simpson)
11-15-2009, 09:51 PM #2Registered User
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- In the Federal Witness Protection Program
An innocent parent of a murdered child/spouse/loved one NEVER stops looking for the killer. Even after the case has gone as cold as the grave itself, over the years, the flame still burns-for justice, for revenge sometimes, but always for the hope that there will be a name and a face. A person to be held accountable. Time does not dissipate this. Time softens grief, but the wound of an unknown murderer never heals.
The Rs and family (to paraphrase BR) have gone on with their lives VERY well, and did so from the beginning. Not much noise from their camp about finding the "real" killer. (Think they took a page from OJ's book?)
And suspiciously, the extended R family were silent even when the case was fresh, with the exception of Aunt P, who was complicit in removing evidence from the home. Even she was most vocal only in condemning those who dared suspect her sister; that big mouth wasn't used for much else except that. And for all these years, after it became apparent that they were really going to get away with this crime, there hasn't been a peep from anyone in the R camp UNLESS it is in response to one of Lacy's or Smit's inane "discoveries" and proclamations.
Last edited by DeeDee249; 11-15-2009 at 09:54 PM.THIS time, we get it RIGHT!
This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.
11-15-2009, 10:44 PM #3
I'm with DeeDee. I have never lost a child to murder, but did lose one to suicide,in 1995.
I've often thought that (despite my own, heart-wrenching grief), it would be UNBEARABLE to lose a child to murder. I'm not talking about accidental, unintended, involuntary or even voluntary manslaughter...but a cold-blooded, premeditated, violent act, that claimed the life of my child. Not that I'm exactly sane now (haha), but such an event would put me over the edge!
11-16-2009, 04:57 AM #4
How can you be angry at the killer when you or your accomplice ARE/IS the killer...forgiveness from God?You have time for this only when YOU are the one that needs it.IMO.You wouldn't waste your energy with praying and asking God to forgive the MURDERER of your child.But you would do it for yourself,especially when you're a selfish person.
JR tried to sound angry.I guess his lawyers advised him to change track and I am not surprised.I can see anger in Goldman's eyes and tone when he talks about OJ.I didn't hear/see any anger when JR said he would hang JB's killer.He even smirked when he said he didn't kill his daughter.Put Goldman,Klaas,Lunsford on one side and JR on the other.If you can't see the difference I am sorry ..........
11-16-2009, 08:40 AM #5
I don't know about yours, but MY GOD is a forgiving GOD. He understands my pain as well as my imperfections.
11-16-2009, 08:49 AM #6
I am sorry ,I wasn't talking in general and I am not good at religious stuff / expressing it.
I was thinking more of these 2 people who used religion more as a propaganda.I am not even sure they really believed what they were saying re forgiveness.
It looks to me that they were trying to convince THEMSELVES that what they did will be forgiven.Once again they thought of themselves and not JB.JR was right about one thing though,it's up to JONBENET whether she forgives or not!!
And I guess,normally acceptance and forgiveness come a bit later........after grieving and being angry at your child's killer.In my opinion.
Last edited by madeleine; 11-16-2009 at 08:50 AM.
11-16-2009, 09:05 AM #7
Apology accepted. I have spent 15 years of grieving, beiing angry, and feeling guilty over my son's death. "Acceptence" and "Forgiveness" (for my self), may never come. I feel for any parent who buries a child because know the pain, is like no other.
11-16-2009, 10:48 AM #8Registered User
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
I honestly cannot say how I would react and I pray I will never be placed in that situation.
Remembering how I was when my dad passed away...I just wanted to lay in bed and cry all day. By nature, I am a fairly private person, so I cannot see myself being as outspoken as Fred Goldman.
On the flip side, if my husband were responsible for my child's death, I cannot see myself staying married to him. That's what has always puzzled me about the Ramseys. If one of them were responsible for JonBenet's death, how on earth could you wake up every morning next to that person knowing what happened?
11-16-2009, 12:21 PM #9
11-16-2009, 12:23 PM #10
11-16-2009, 12:24 PM #11
if my child were murdered i couldnt take it ... i think id pine away and die
kikas halloween album
11-16-2009, 12:52 PM #12
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAFmNapkpfQ"]YouTube- Patsy Ramsey on CNN[/ame]
If this is real GRIEF and F E A R,I'll go drown myself right NOW.
Too bad I can't find the clip now in which JR says he didn't kill his daughter.
Last edited by madeleine; 11-16-2009 at 12:53 PM.
11-16-2009, 01:29 PM #13something to ponder:
When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
11-16-2009, 01:35 PM #14"To do is to be"-Nietzsche
"To be is to do"-Kant
"Do be do do be do"- Sinatra
Only your song matters in the end..
11-16-2009, 01:40 PM #15
She's just another bad actress, just like Susan SMith.
IMO of course
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