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  1. #1
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    Evidence subject to Frye - *UPDATED* 2011.05.09 (ATTN: ALL ORDERS IN!)

    fifthessence just posted about certain forensic tests being subject to a Frye hearing to determine their admissibility on court.
    Do we know what testing techniques come under the heading of "new and novel"?
    What will be included in this separate hearing?


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10914596
    Last edited by JBean; 11-20-2009 at 11:34 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    fifthessence just posted about certain forensic tests being subject to a Frye hearing to determine their admissibility on court.
    Do we know what testing techniques come under the heading of "new and novel"?
    What will be included in this separate hearing?
    I would imagine the air sample tests for one - people seem to be saying the technology has not yet been used in a court case, so they must be rather state-of-the-art.
    "Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" - Voltaire

  3. #3
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    JBean...you are making my head hurt
    <Click on User CP>
    Scroll down and on the left
    <Click on Edit Ignore List>
    In add a Member to your list
    <start typing the name of the person you want to ignore>
    <Click on OKay>

    IF WE COOK IT THEY WILL COME!


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by cecybeans View Post
    I would imagine the air sample tests for one - people seem to be saying the technology has not yet been used in a court case, so they must be rather state-of-the-art.
    do you think this will present a problem for the prosecution? I mean, if it were deemed inadmissible what impact would that have?

  5. #5
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    Link to Dr. Arpad Vass' report, including the odor analysis. IMO this will be the subject of the Frye hearing:

    http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19801995.pdf

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisalei321 View Post
    JBean...you are making my head hurt
    Oh hey. now you know how I feel sometimes LOL.
    Sorry lisalei.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by treeseeker View Post
    Link to Dr. Arpad Vass' report, including the odor analysis. IMO this will be the subject of the Frye hearing:

    http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19801995.pdf
    thank you.
    Is this the only thing?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    thank you.
    Is this the only thing?
    Possibly the LIBS on the trunk carpet, but there are other ways to extract that same information the LIBS provided.

  9. #9
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    This may be oversimplifying things but, if they try and quash the air sample results, there are always the dogs, and the statements of GA, CA, LA, SB, and CA's co-workers, who will testify that Cindy arrived at work after picking up the car only to complain about the stench of a dead body in it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Eunice Burns View Post
    This may be oversimplifying things but, if they try and quash the air sample results, there are always the dogs, and the statements of GA, CA, LA, SB, and CA's co-workers, who will testify that Cindy arrived at work after picking up the car only to complain about the stench of a dead body in it.
    Not only that, but quashing the air testing IMO opens the door to a jury field trip to the car, which by all accounts still reeks.


  11. #11
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    Better late than never? Bringing my post over from the bug thread:

    I'm pretty sure it is Dr. Vass' air sampling they are talking about. It is very interesting science, new to this kind of application. It's not junk, just untried.

    We'll see, but I'm not sure it will be all that important to the prosecution. They have several standard tests to rely on.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by treeseeker View Post
    Not only that, but quashing the air testing IMO opens the door to a jury field trip to the car, which by all accounts still reeks.
    Love that. Although, I feel for the jury.

  13. #13
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    We've heard the defense refer to much of the forensic evidence released by the Prosecution as 'junk science.'

    It is my opinion they will call for a Frye Hearing. One to dispute the new techniques the courts may not be so familiar with and the qualifying of the expert witnesses 'opinions', the other to cause more delays pushing the trial date back even further.


    Couple more links:
    FL - http://www.palmbeachbar.org/members/Oct_02_Ted.pdf
    Federal - http://www.lectlaw.com/files/exp08.htm

  14. #14
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    GREAT thread, JBean!!

    As background, Frye hearings are how parties challenge scientific evidence and get it excluded. This type of hearing comes from the Supreme Court ruling Frye v. United States that held polygraphs were inadmissible because they were not "generally accepted" in the scientific community. This was the test for many years until Daubert v. Merrill Dow, where the Supreme Court adopted a more liberal test. Although Daubert technically overruled Frye, it only applies on the FEDERAL level. At the state level, states are free to choose which test they want to apply.

    Florida has stuck with the Frye test- where if challenged, scientific evidence has to be "generally accepted" in the scientific community to be accepted. Most states have moved to the Daubert standard, BUT (lucky for me), New York has stayed with Frye as well. Frye is more a more restrictive standard, but IMO, judges still tend to lean towards admitting as much evidence as allowed under the law. The wikipedia entry on Frye is a nice summary: [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frye_standard[/ame]

  15. #15
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    IMO, the body farm is questionable. The evidence of chloroform may be as well.

    Let me preface: the best way to prove/disprove admissibility under Frye is to show other cases in your state where the court has ruled similar evidence/experts inadmissible. I have NOT done the caselaw research for FL. So I do not know how this specific evidence is treated in these specific courts. This is just my opinion "in general" based on a random sampling of cases I've seen/read.

    My worry is that the body farm is relatively new, and I am not sure how much evidence has been introduced under these standards. If

    Also, I COULD BE COMPLETELY WRONG, but based on what I read here and in articles on some of the chemical reports, the concentration of some chemicals weren't statistically sufficient. For each scientific test, there's a certain percentage of a relevant factor that can be attributed to chance- which is called shorthand the "p" value. If the value of a certain chemical exceeds the "p value," you can say it's most likely not due to chance.

    I am sure someone with a much better grip of science/statistics will give a better explanation of that than me. But that's the gist.

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