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  1. #1
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    MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #3

    Last edited by OkieGranny; 05-18-2015 at 08:28 PM. Reason: broken links
    What we are doing is just a drop in the ocean.
    But if that drop was not in the ocean,
    I think the ocean would be less because of that missing drop.
    ~~ Mother Theresa ~~



    Where is Rachel Cooke? Missing since 10-Jan-2002
    Rachel's thread - WS
    RachelCookeSearch.org

  2. #2
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    Not being very familiar with the Mormon religion/faith, I did a little research on the title "Bishop". The man who purportedly took a disclosure or report from JMohler is identified by the media as former Bishop Paul Tonga. This is a definition from Wikipedia:


    "A bishop holds one of the key ecclesiastical positions within the Mormon Church. He is the leader of a local congregation, known as a ward. The position of a bishop within the Mormon Church differs from the position with the same name in other denominations. In other churches, a bishop may administer a large geographical area involving a large number of congregations. The Mormon position of bishop is most analogous to the position of a rabbi, minister, pastor, or parish priest in other denominations. The position of bishop is singular; there is only one bishop per congregation at any given time."

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Mist View Post
    I also wonder if any of the Mohlers did indeed have pics of the vics, would they have gotten rid of them -- or secreted them away from their homes or offices?
    I'm going to bet years of getting away with everything made them overconfident enough not to bother. At least I hope that's the case...

  4. #4
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    Latest news from fox4kc.com

    Mohler Case Over One Year in the Making

    http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-stor...,3728713.story


    Ex-Church Member Recalls Mohler Family, Believes Sex Abuse Charges

    http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-stor...,3153934.story


    Fox4kc.com also has many related links, including .PDFs of probabe cause statements
    What we are doing is just a drop in the ocean.
    But if that drop was not in the ocean,
    I think the ocean would be less because of that missing drop.
    ~~ Mother Theresa ~~



    Where is Rachel Cooke? Missing since 10-Jan-2002
    Rachel's thread - WS
    RachelCookeSearch.org

  5. #5
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    This is the only other place I've found former Bishop Tonga. I noticed that he is now referred to as Brother Tonga. Does anyone know how that works? Once you've retired or been removed as a Bishop, do you become a Brother?

    http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...____&hideNav=1

    This is an article concerning the re-opening of the Independence Visitors' Center in 2006:

    "Just about everything is different than it used to be inside the Independence Visitors’ Center in Independence, Missouri, which recently reopened after more than a year of renovations."

    "Closed for 13 months, the visitors’ center opened its two new theaters, 23 exhibits, and unique interactive children’s area to the public in March. The new features give more than a historical context of Independence. “Before, we were telling people about the plan of salvation,” says Paul Tonga, who worked as a host in the old center. “Today we show them.” After visiting the center with his wife, Brother Tonga could not wait to return with his 7 children and 18 grandchildren. “The message is there for families and individuals—whoever decides to follow Christ,” he said."

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjj View Post
    I'm going to bet years of getting away with everything made them overconfident enough not to bother. At least I hope that's the case...

    After reading thru some previous cases @ that Mormon Alliance site, it wouldn't surprise me either if they were confident that it would be 'no big deal'.

    I did lots of reading there last nite after MissIzzy posted the link....in too many cases, IMO, the church or family members who reported abuse to the church and/or went public with it were harassed...some moved away & have unlisted telephone numbers.

    I don't think this is uncommon based on what I've read...and then there's the vid of 'Nicole' saying she had concerns over speaking up & her own parents were threatened with ex-communication.

    Amazingly, the perps were not always ex-communicated, and if they were, were re-accepted.

    I realize that the Comm. of Christ is not the same as LDS, but many families living in Missouri have been there a very long time - and may still hold onto previous generations' cultural beliefs. (I hope this makes sense what I'm trying to say.)

    The vics are truly survivors based on what's been released so far.
    What we are doing is just a drop in the ocean.
    But if that drop was not in the ocean,
    I think the ocean would be less because of that missing drop.
    ~~ Mother Theresa ~~



    Where is Rachel Cooke? Missing since 10-Jan-2002
    Rachel's thread - WS
    RachelCookeSearch.org

  7. #7
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    It's pretty sad when the first items to come up when doing research are from fellow WSers!! I think they did "scrub the internet" before this case broke. Initially, I thought that somehow LE helped the alleged victims do that. Now, I'm starting to wonder if other entities have done the same. One would think that you could find info about a pastor of a church in a mid-sized city from only 20 years ago. Didn't he marry or bury anyone?

    Concerning jjj and Texas Mist's comments about the lapse of time before the search warrant, I agree that there's a certain sense of invincibility here. I also think LE might have been watching or listening far more than we know. Once again, this could be why the budget was discussed at length. If this is truly such a huge case, and with the Missouri/Iowa state line smack dab in the middle of things, wouldn't the FBI be involved, thereby pulling down federal funds?

  8. #8
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    I agree Texas Mist. I don't want to bring down the wrath of the LDS or the Community of Christ Church but I do have an observation.

    I was raised American Baptist. Not Southern. Not Primitive. American. That doesn't mean a thing to a Catholic but Baptists understand and highlight the differences. In my church, dances were held and social drinking was accepted. That is not acceptable, per church creed, in some of the more fundamentalist Baptist churches. The American Baptists could be said to be on a "slippery slope" by some of the other Baptists.

    However, being raised Baptist and having attended lots of different types of Baptist churches, I'm very comfortable with and have a pretty good understanding of the different practices. The sequencing of the service is similar, the hymns are often the same, there's Baptism of adults, and a "call forward" at the end of each service. All the Baptist Youth groups still hold Bible drills. It's almost comical to me how different "branches" or "off-shoots" of a particular denomination will bicker until the cows come home.

    I think I get it that the LDS church is different than the Community of Christ Church (not to be referred to any longer as the RLDS, I guess). The church leaders have used this incident as a "teachable moment" about the separateness of these denominations. They are saying it loud and clear.

    That being said, I still think that most Mormons and most Community of Christ church members are very familiar with how things are done in each church. I think some of the shared history has filtered down to both churches and their congregations. I think anyone who has been a member of any Mormon church or an "off-shoot" will recognize many of the details in the "Mormon Alliance" and the traditions, both highly positive and horribly worrisome alluded to in that document.

  9. #9
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    I think it was jjj who pointed out that the article about Bishop Tonga "counseling" the Mohler family had been changed slightly to include information about Burrell Jr.'s excommunication. I just checked the article again for a detail and find that it's been corrected yet again. Is this permissible or even considered best practice in journalism (is that an oxymoron?). It irritates me that the news source, Fox4KC, doesn't do an addendum or correction. They just add it in to the original article:

    "In a statement to FOX 4 on Friday, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said that they have "a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to child abusers. When abuse is suspected, the Church directs its members to first contact the legal authorities and then their local bishop for counseling and support. The Church cooperates fully with law enforcement in investigating incidents of child abuse and bringing perpetrators to justice." The statement continues: "Had Bishop Paul Tonga consulted with Church leaders about the past child abuse allegations made against Burell E. Mohler Jr. he would have been told to ensure the proper authorities were notified."

    These changes/additions might have been the reason that some posters couldn't open the link yesterday. That link is:

    http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-stor...,4424459.story
    Last edited by Missizzy; 11-21-2009 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Added link

  10. #10
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    I do agree with the poster above Oceaneyes, that this is a great group of people and each of you contribute in your own special way, it doesnt matter if you have professional expertise or not because many of you have life experiences to share that some of us could never learned cracking books open in college!


  11. #11
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    From reading the book The Mormon murders, it was stated in there that the Mormon church would send people to go around and remove former Mormon books and destroy them because they didn't like what was in the books. It's so long ago that I read it that I don't remember what it was they didn't like. Something about the succession of leaders, maybe or facts about Joseph Smith. IDK

    At any rate, I do know that the Mormon church has a long and powerful arm in the US.
    Last edited by human; 11-21-2009 at 05:23 PM. Reason: spelling

  12. #12
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    Paximus this question is for you, I'm a little concerned on how much info is being realeased right away from this case from LE , what effect is this going to have if any on this case ? In your Opinion...
    If it were me I sure would not be letting every little detail out right away to the public.
    What lies behind you and what lies in front of you pales in comparison to what lies inside of you....
    Ralph Waldo Emerson ~

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    I think it was jjj who pointed out that the article about Bishop Tonga "counseling" the Mohler family had been changed slightly to include information about Burrell Jr.'s excommunication. I just checked the article again for a detail and find that it's been corrected yet again. Is this permissible or even considered best practice in journalism (is that an oxymoron?). It irritates me that the news source, Fox4KC, doesn't do an addendum or correction. They just add it in to the original article:

    "In a statement to FOX 4 on Friday, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said that they have "a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to child abusers. When abuse is suspected, the Church directs its members to first contact the legal authorities and then their local bishop for counseling and support. The Church cooperates fully with law enforcement in investigating incidents of child abuse and bringing perpetrators to justice." The statement continues: "Had Bishop Paul Tonga consulted with Church leaders about the past child abuse allegations made against Burell E. Mohler Jr. he would have been told to ensure the proper authorities were notified."

    These changes/additions might have been the reason that some posters couldn't open the link yesterday. That link is:

    http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-stor...,4424459.story

    They may say they have a 'zero tolerance' but their legal representation in the most recent LDS & Boy Scouts civil suit says:

    Allen Ruby, a San Jose lawyer representing the church, said, "Any allegation of childhood abuse is a serious matter," but said, "The church will defend itself."

    Ruby said, "The law does not make a church responsible for the conduct of a stepfather toward his children."


    IMO, they are not speaking to the current situation that BMjr finds himself in because of concern over yet another civil suit from a group of recovering survivors.

    ETA: link http://www.ktvu.com/news/21633859/detail.html
    What we are doing is just a drop in the ocean.
    But if that drop was not in the ocean,
    I think the ocean would be less because of that missing drop.
    ~~ Mother Theresa ~~



    Where is Rachel Cooke? Missing since 10-Jan-2002
    Rachel's thread - WS
    RachelCookeSearch.org

  14. #14
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    I add my voice to Mysticrose's. Upon reflection, there is an awful lot of info (not nearly enough for many, however) being released. After all, this isn't a Sunshine Law state.

    When our family case broke, there were frequent updates in the local and regional newspapers. The A/P picked up a small story due to the large number of charges (26-27 for our family alone). But, the media certainly didn't print copies of the Probable Cause Statements or Search Warrants. Those were held close to the vest by the local DA.

    During our trial, things got nastier and to me, seemed a little lop-sided. The media surely seemed biased against our children IMO and tried to sensationalize the case far more than the DA did. Oh, the comparisons to Wenatchee!! But you would have had to have really attended our trial or have read the transcripts or appeal afterwards to get the details.

    So, Pax, what's your take on this?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticrose View Post
    Paximus this question is for you, I'm a little concerned on how much info is being realeased right away from this case from LE , what effect is this going to have if any on this case ? In your Opinion...
    If it were me I sure would not be letting every little detail out right away to the public.
    Well it appears in MO they have to FILE a probable cause statement before they can make any arrests, that is NOT the case in most states, in most states they can quietly make an arrest and start digging around for evidence and nobody really knows anything about it unless LE leaks it to the media, but it appears in MO they have to file some sort of PC statement before they make their arrests and that being the case the minute they file that PC statement that becomes public information and the media can then report whats going on. Obviously this is all going to have a huge impact in the trial because it will be difficult to seat a pool of jurors who have not already been exposed too all of this information we are discussing on here which makes it hard for the Mohlers to get a fair trial. At the very least the defense will have to file a change off venue which may not make much difference since this case has made national headlines.

    I would much prefer LE do their jobs and line up their ducks before releasing all this type of information but that isnt always how it works so it is what it is.

    Another problem is once you let all this info out you can then expect a lot of people to come forward claiming they are victims and can recite word for word what happened to them because they read all the facts in the newspaper. More people do this than you can imagine, some people love to throw themselves in to the middle of these kinds of cases just for fun I guess.

    Usually LE will hold some very detailed info back from the media so that if other victims come forward and mention that specific thing LE will then know they are LEGIT and didnt get that info from the media reports and that may be the case here, LE may have more evidence than we know about because they want to hold it back in case new victims come forward so that they can use that info to verify if the new victims are legit.

    Make sense?

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