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View Poll Results: It's possible JB knew of tampons, douches, and menstruation

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  • it's possible

    52 62.65%
  • it is impossible

    31 37.35%

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  1. #1
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    A rather "personal" question about female part

    If discussion of menstruation disturbs you please look no further


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_-woVqTnVQ[/ame]


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1cAYWi9E_0&feature=PlayList&p=007FE271907 E08E0&index=0&playnext=1[/ame]


    An important part of the RDI evidence is that JBR hymen was eroded, but not actually torn. It was "worn" suggesting chronic injury, and, of course, JR is the primary culprit. The possibility that perhaps BR or another same age playmate might have done this doesn't seem to register much credibility even though it cannot be logically ruled out. This worn hymen may have NOTHING TO DO with her murder.

    I understand that "masturbation" was "ruled out" but I'm somewhat skeptical.

    How do you know that JB did not watch her mother PR or another woman or older girl talk about using douches or tampons?

    I know that around menarche around as early as 8, if even younger, JB may have been exposed to older girls either expecting their first period or using tampons or douches.

    It seems within the range of plausibility that JB heard from say an 8 y/o who heard from her older sister who was having her first period on how to use a tampon or douche, and JB decided to try it herself, and perhaps tried it a couple of times and hence, a worn, but not broken or ruptured, hymen.

    She may not have had or found real tampons too big so she improvised by practicing with a friend something slender.

    Can we say with any confidence what her diameter of her hymen should have been had no "contact" with her hymen occurred?
    Just how many mm of hymenal tissue was eroded and need to be accounted for?

    I vaguely recall girls talking about menstruating when I was in fourth grade or around 8-9.

    She and her girl friend found her older sister's box of juvenile just for menache age girl slim tampons, along with instructions on how to insert them, and decided to follow suit.

    There's the issue of JB playing doctor with any of her peers.

    As a girl how old you were when you first learned of menstruation? Did you ever practice putting on a tampon prior to your first period? How do we know that JB had long nails, so when she self inserted her own finger into her own vagina, her nails were long enough to touch her own hymen? There's no woman ever that as a little girl inserted her own finger into her own vagina OR inserted an object into her vagina? What about girls exploring other girls parts?
    What about an itchy vagina? What if JB had an itchy vagina and decided to scratch it by using some object to relieve the itching? Or use some kind of applicator to deliver anti-itch cream? WHen my back is itchy and I can't reach it, I use an object like a stick to scratch it.

    RDI could be true, but this worn hymen has nothing to do with anything any R's did. IDI could also be true, and someone else eroded her hymen.
    Last edited by voynich; 11-28-2009 at 08:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    I'd say she knew about douching because people who knew Patsy said she did it to JB after she soiled herself.
    But to suggest that JB eroded her own hymen through masturbation is particularly vile, as well as being impossible. Her fingers would not reach her hymen.
    I've said this before, but you choose to ignore it. The hymen is NOT near the opening of the vagina and no where near the clitoris, where pleasure is most felt.
    Actually, the hymen is a thin membrane that surrounds the opening of the vagina. It is part of the vulva and not located inside the vaginal canal.

  3. #3
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    IMO, a little girl that age only thinks they have 2 holes. 1 for pee and for #2 .
    When they get older the curiosity sets in.
    I really doubt if she even knew what was happening if her mother cleaned her up.
    Just like when mothers used to give enema's.........kids never did it to themselves.
    To ackward for a little girl.
    Kyron, HALEIGH, ADJI & Gabriel NEEDS PRAYERS NOW TO FIND THEM!. Zahra & Jonathan in heaven
    Justice for Hailey!!!!
    No Justice for Caylee Marie..........

  4. #4
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    Now here is a stupid question.
    Can the hymen be hurt from exercise like ballet?
    Just wondering.......I was told that one time/
    Kyron, HALEIGH, ADJI & Gabriel NEEDS PRAYERS NOW TO FIND THEM!. Zahra & Jonathan in heaven
    Justice for Hailey!!!!
    No Justice for Caylee Marie..........

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katrinka View Post
    Actually, the hymen is a thin membrane that surrounds the opening of the vagina. It is part of the vulva and not located inside the vaginal canal.
    But I don't think that a 6-year old would reach it with her fingers.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by passionflower View Post
    Now here is a stupid question.
    Can the hymen be hurt from exercise like ballet?
    Just wondering.......I was told that one time/
    I've heard it can be torn by certain activities, but I don't think that ballet as practiced by a 6-year old would damage it.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  7. #7
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    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymen[/ame]

    The hymen is a fold of mucous membrane that surrounds or partially covers the external vaginal opening. It forms part of the vulva, or external genitalia.[1][2][3] Despite this, it is not possible to confirm that a woman is a virgin by examining her hymen.[2][3] In cases of suspected rape or sexual abuse, a detailed examination of the hymen may be carried out; but the condition of the hymen alone is often inconclusive or open to misinterpretation, especially if the patient has reached puberty.[1] In children, although a common appearance of the hymen is crescent-shaped, many variations are possible.[1]

    Hymenal resorption

    Past neonatal stage, the diameter of the hymenal opening (measured within the hymenal ring) has been proposed to be approximately 1 mm for each year of age.[7] In children, to make this measurement, a doctor may place a Foley catheter into the vagina and inflate the balloon behind the hymen to stretch the hymenal margin and allow for a better examination. In the normal course of life, the hymenal opening can also be enlarged by tampon use, pelvic examinations with a speculum, regular physical activity, or sexual intercourse.[1] Once a girl reaches puberty, the hymen tends to become so elastic that it is not possible to determine whether a woman uses tampons or not by examining a hymen. In one survey, only 43% of women reported bleeding the first time they had sex, indicating that the vagina of a majority of women is sufficiently opened.[1][5]

    The hymen is most apparent in young girls: At this time, their hymen is thin and less likely to be redundant, that is to protrude or fold over on itself.[8] In instances of suspected child abuse, doctors use the clock face system to describe the hymenal opening. The 12 o'clock position is below the urethra, and 6 o'clock is towards the anus, with the patient lying on her back.[9]


    By the time a girl reaches school-age, this hormonal influence has stopped and the hymen becomes thin, smooth, delicate, and almost translucent. It is also very sensitive to touch; a physician who must to swab the area would avoid the hymen and swab the outer vulval vestibule instead.[5]

    Prepubescent girls' hymenal opening comes in many shapes, depending on hormonal and activity level, the most common being crescentic (posterior rim): no tissue at the 12 o'clock position; crescent-shaped band of tissue from 1–2 to 10–11 o'clock, at its widest around 6 o'clock. From puberty onwards, depending on estrogen and activity levels, the hymenal tissue may be thicker, and the opening is often fimbriated or erratically shaped.[6]



    Cribriform, or microperforate: sometimes confused for imperforate, the hymenal opening appears to be nonexistent, but has, under close examination, small openings.


    This is all Greek to me.
    Last edited by voynich; 11-28-2009 at 10:52 PM.

  8. #8
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    Can also be innocent....there are three distinct normal hymen presentations:

    "Here we have what I referred to before as a posterior rim hymen, you can call it a U-shaped hymen, it doesn'tít matter, the idea is to be aware that in this type of hymen anteriorly it will blend with the vaginal wall, so your posteriorly is the only area where you expect to find tissue. I have seen some evaluations where evaluators have called this as hymen absent in the anterior half and regarded it as a sign of sexual abuse. That is not the case, this is just how this type of hymen happens to look. Here is the edge, and we will be looking for trauma posteriorly if it does occur. The vaginal mucosa is very easily visualized with this type of hymen, so the fact that you can see vaginal mucosa."

    http://www.ccspublishing.com/journal...xual_abuse.htm

    There is another in depth discussion on this topic here ....start at post 338

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthr...use#post942344


    Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    I'd say she knew about douching because people who knew Patsy said she did it to JB after she soiled herself.
    But to suggest that JB eroded her own hymen through masturbation is particularly vile, as well as being impossible. Her fingers would not reach her hymen.
    I've said this before, but you choose to ignore it. The hymen is NOT near the opening of the vagina and no where near the clitoris, where pleasure is most felt.


    But I don't think that a 6-year old would reach it with her fingers.


    .

    http://health.discovery.com/centers/...dia/hymen.html

    A hymen is the thin piece of tissue that partially blocks the entrance to the vagina. It is sometimes called the maidenhead or cherry. It is named after the Greek god of marriage and has no known biological function.

    http://www.scarleteen.com/article/po...ws_hanne_blank


    What the hymen is is whatever remains of that body wall cling to the inside of the opening of the vagina after the opening forms. It is the "leftovers" of the sheet of flesh that used to separate the internal genitals from the external ones before the vagina had an opening. The opening(s) in the center of the hymen are the entrance to the vagina.

    I like to think of the hymen as a door frame mounted in a doorway that stands on the spot where "external" stops and "internal" starts. You can't go in or out of that doorway without passing through the door frame. The hymen is exactly the same. It is part of the entrance to the vagina. Nothing can enter or exit the vagina without going through it.

    Scarleteen: Do all women have one?

    HB: Medical science thinks that pretty much everyone does. Researchers have estimated that about 0.03% of women are born without enough leftover tissue at the vaginal entrance that it is visible as a hymen, which would just mean that the process of the formation of the opening of the vagina was a bit more thorough than normal.



    http://www.healthystrokes.com/hymengallery.html








    "covers the opening of the vagina"

    As you see, my JIDI powers are far beyond yours, now, back down

    This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of a claim of Deedee, and it will soon see the end of the Spin's "JB can't reach her hymen b/c it's near the cervix"
    Last edited by voynich; 11-29-2009 at 12:31 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by passionflower View Post
    Now here is a stupid question.
    Can the hymen be hurt from exercise like ballet?
    Just wondering.......I was told that one time/
    try landing on a split legs


  11. #11
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    please don't let it be true that her mother actually douched her

    is that just rumour?

  12. #12
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    A hymen can absolutely be broken by ballet or other types of little girl play. Hymens are different in different vaginas - some actually have to be surgically cut away for normal sexual activity to begin. Some can break with something as simple as a vigorous wipe. Depends on the female.

    Also, lots of little girls masturbate.

    My 6 year old sons knew the basics about tampons and menstruation - it just depends upon the family, I guess. Douches are ridiculous, IMHO, and I can't imagine discussing them with a young child.
    Last edited by southcitymom; 11-29-2009 at 08:59 AM.
    I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death!

  13. #13
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    Whoa- what a touchy topic Voynich...
    i agree with southcitymom....since i was a child, it was instilled in me that activities like horseriding,bikes, certain types of dance, etc are better avoided...I never knew why but i found out in my teens...culturally ( for me) such activities are taboo until adulthood..( so as to preserve the hymen)....
    i found out about periods accidentally when i saw my mum handing out pads to our housekeeper...i asked her what that was..and they both kind of s******ed...It took an inquisitive mind until I found out about it for myself...( i was around 11 perhaps??)
    so the answer is-it differs from family to family...
    Your questions are thought-proviking...I can imagine Patsy wiping JB thouroughly in her private bits and telling her " sweety- you are a beauty queen...beauty queens must be clean down here at all times" ....I can imagine JB being inquisitive and wanting to know what it was like there down below...maybe she explored a couple of times or so, but did such "explorations" lead to the "erosions" that were described??? I dont know....

    Besides, let us not forget how DEFENSIVE both parents were whenever the topic of sexual abuse was raised...they could have replied: oh-maybe she was playing with herself or whatever-many girls at that age do..
    But no-they immediately get all defensive and sort of brushed it under the carpet..
    "To do is to be"-Nietzsche
    "To be is to do"-Kant
    "Do be do do be do"- Sinatra
    Only your song matters in the end..

  14. #14
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    Oh man, this thread is an object lesson in why this crime simply has to be formally solved - so that the little lamb can rest in peace without total strangers across the globe discussing her most intimate parts and most intimate habits years after her death.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie
    Oh man, this thread is an object lesson in why this crime simply has to be formally solved - so that the little lamb can rest in peace without total strangers across the globe discussing her most intimate parts and most intimate habits years after her death.
    Don't I know it, Sophie. At this point, I don't think there's enough soap in the world to get me clean again. But if it could lead to a final resolution, then damn the torpedoes.
    Last edited by SuperDave; 11-29-2009 at 05:20 PM.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

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