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Thread: British student murdered in Perugia, Amanda Knox convicted #2

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by darnudes View Post
    The Daily Mail wrote:
    Perhaps that is one reason why Knox felt the need to pour out her innermost thoughts and feelings in her diary, which I have read in its entirety this week.

    I was also given exclusive access to a previously unseen, four-page e-mail which Knox circulated to her closest relatives and friends on November 4, less than 24 hours before she was arrested on suspicion of murdering Meredith.

    Written with the expressed aim of explaining her movements before and after Meredith died, but at times astonishingly insensitive, it is, in its way, just as revealing as the diary.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...ing-diary.html
    Are you a journalist? If so with what publication?

    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    Okay, I read AK's confession letter above and to me she sounds like a person who is trying to square what the cops told her ("we have solid evidence of you there in the house at the time of the murder") with her own memories.

    She does seem really confused and maybe more than a little flaky. She is talking through the things she is imagining/seeing in her mind...stream of consciousness-like, rather than outright lying or making an untrue assertion that she stands by. The things she says she is sure about she says definitively. The rest she is not certain about and waffles about.

    She doesn't sound like she's covering for RS or anyone else in this letter, but she does sound incredulous and possibly hurt that RS might (try and) implicate her. Did the police try to play one of them against the other? I think it's possible.

    Is this a 'confession?' Well, it sure doesn't sound like one to me. The most she can imagine, when told "YOU WERE THERE" is covering her ears.

    I don't know. It's reads like someone who is trying to figure out what's going on and isn't making much sense to herself (or anyone else).

    Note: I haven't yet read the other things posted above...so far just the email AK sent to her family/friends, and the written 'confession.'
    The story about the mop in her email to friends is 90% proof that she's a liar that shouldn't be believed (In my best judge Milian) even if her tongue came notarized.

    That mop story is so unbelievable she might have said that the Hells Angels came from America and perpetrated the crime. JMO

    This is why I HIGHLY doubt much of to anything she says. That mop story was not made while supposedly being smacked around by the police.
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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
    The story about the mop in her email to friends is 90% proof that she's a liar that shouldn't be believed (In my best judge Milian) even if her tongue came notarized.

    That mop story is so unbelievable she might have said that the Hells Angels came from America and perpetrated the crime. JMO

    This is why I HIGHLY doubt much of to anything she says. That mop story was not made while supposedly being smacked around by the police.
    So the mop story was ONLY mentioned in that one email by AK and never mentioned by her again?

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  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    So the mop story was ONLY mentioned in that one email by AK and never mentioned by her again?
    Not to my knowledge. If she tried telling that to the police then they probably did smack her. She'd deserve it.
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  7. #54
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    Steely Dan..
    Are you a journalist? If so with what publication?

    No matey. The article was written by David Jones with Additional reporting by Nick Pisa for the Daily Mail - UK paper.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...ing-diary.html

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  9. #55
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    It isn't so out of the realm of possibility that Amanda would bring her mop to Raf's to clean up a mess. It really isn't. As Sleuthy asked, was the mop ever tested? If so, I would think it would be sopping with DNA. Messy crime scenes, such as this one, are not easily cleaned up. Next to impossible, really, from what I understand. I know I've seen the mess that is left in the aftermath of a person passing from blood loss. Cleaning up? Again I say, next to impossible.
    Cleaning up and getting rid of 99% of all the evidence that might incriminate you, for a naive and immature 19-year-old and doing so in a short period of time? Closer to impossible than next to impossible is. The mop would contain DNA, even trace amounts, without a doubt, if it was used in the alleged clean-up. You really think they could clean up evidence of themselves or she could clean up evidence of herself from that crime scene so thoroughly? I mean, really?? I'm sorry, but I don't see it.

    ETA: Not that the mop containing evidence of the clean up would solely incriminate A or R, anyway. As I mentioned before, RG may have acted alone or with other associates. He may have also used the mop in his own clean up if Amanda really is telling the truth that she wasn't there.
    Last edited by Tizzle; 12-09-2009 at 08:26 PM.

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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post
    It isn't so out of the realm of possibility that Amanda would bring her mop to Raf's to clean up a mess. It really isn't. As Sleuthy asked, was the mop ever tested? If so, I would think it would be sopping with DNA. Messy crime scenes, such as this one, are not easily cleaned up. Next to impossible, really, from what I understand. I know I've seen the mess that is left in the aftermath of a person passing from blood loss. Cleaning up? Again I say, next to impossible.
    Cleaning up and getting rid of 99% of all the evidence that might incriminate you, for a naive and immature 19-year-old and doing so in a short period of time? Closer to impossible than next to impossible is. The mop would contain DNA, even trace amounts, without a doubt, if it was used in the alleged clean-up. You really think they could clean up evidence of themselves or she could clean up evidence of herself from that crime scene so thoroughly? I mean, really?? I'm sorry, but I don't see it.
    What she intended to do with the mop is irrelevant to me. The story itself is just so absurd.

    She and Raf have a lot of water on the floor of his kitchen. (either from a busted pipe, his story, or a dropped pot, her story) They leave it there over night and she comes home to get it 12 hours or more later.

    I'm a slob but there is no way I'd leave a lot of water on my kitchen floor for 12 hours. I'd bet dollars to donuts that nobody here would leave their kitchen covered in a lot of water for 12 hours either.

    My guess is they used the mop to clean up the floors. I don't know if the cops ever tested it because I don't know when they found out about that story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
    What she intended to do with the mop is irrelevant to me. The story itself is just so absurd.

    She and Raf have a lot of water on the floor of his kitchen. (either from a busted pipe, his story, or a dropped pot, her story) They leave it there over night and she comes home to get it 12 hours or more later.

    I'm a slob but there is no way I'd leave a lot of water on my kitchen floor for 12 hours. I'd bet dollars to donuts that nobody here would leave their kitchen covered in a lot of water for 12 hours either.

    My guess is they used the mop to clean up the floors. I don't know if the cops ever tested it because I don't know when they found out about that story.
    Come on....I think anyone with two brain cells to rub together wouldn't have left it on the floor overnight! A person would use their dirty laundry or bath towels before leaving it overnight.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    I'm also wondering if she smoked pot or hash the day MK's body was found. Her general flakiness reminds me of some potheads I've known and they are, at times, unable to recall details of things. Also, does AK have any kind of ADD or anything? I'm not making excuses for her but again, I have a couple friends with ADD and let me tell you, they are flakoids and frustrating to deal with. AK's communication style reminds me a bit of a pothead and/or someone with ADD. I'm trying to understand her style of communication.
    I believe she admits to smoking pot ( I think the night of the murder).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda7NJ View Post
    Come on....I think anyone with two brain cells to rub together wouldn't have left it on the floor overnight! A person would use their dirty laundry or bath towels before leaving it overnight.
    Exactly. The mop story (which the police didn't make her to come up with, she e-mailed her friends) doesn't make sense. She claims the spill was at dinner, so the next morning she goes to her apartment for a mop?
    Who is going to leave water on the floor for that long?
    Even if he didn't have a mop, I presume he had a paper towel, a towel, anything could be used to take care of a spill.

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    I'm stuck on the alleged cleanup. Those luminol footprints, for instance, look to be in pristine condition, as footprints go. So if you're 'cleaning' and scrubbing away...wouldn't all of those footprints be smeared? That was not a very good 'cleanup.' Spritzing some luminol makes the footprints appear as if they were made in invisible ink.

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  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    I believe she admits to smoking pot ( I think the night of the murder).
    Yes I know she smoked it the night of the murder. I'm also wondering about the next day and any days after that as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post
    Where is your evidence of guilt? Other than theories and gossip, of course. I have seen you post no links, just your opinion. Just because it was introduced into court by the prosecutor does not make it fact, in my mind. To me, most are wild, far fetched accusations and theories. Like they were reaching for evidence. Any evidence.

    I don't have to answer to you or anyone about whether or not I feel Amanda is guilty. Call it what you will, devil's advocate, whatever, but I'm just trying to dig up the facts. I'm trying to find the "smoking gun". As of yet, I'm unsuccessful at finding it. That doesn't mean that the jury was definitely wrong, it just means I question whether or not they were. Thankfully, I have that right. Just because I wasn't posting here and only really followed this case at the beginning and end, does not mean I don't know how to read and catch up! It doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion and concerns. Valid concerns, IMO. It's not like it hurts having a fresh voice around, someone who wasn't kept up to date on all the garbage reported in the press that brought most people to their verdict of guilty in the first place, YKIM?

    The media link I provided about the shopkeeper says his testimony was used in the 11th hearing, sooooooo, I'm not really sure what you mean by your last " * " statement.
    They found her DNA in the apartment, mixed with the victim's. They also found her blood mixed with the blood of the victim. If you ask me, that's a lot more evidence than there are in some cases. All they found in Scott Peterson's case is hair on the pliers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda7NJ View Post
    Come on....I think anyone with two brain cells to rub together wouldn't have left it on the floor overnight! A person would use their dirty laundry or bath towels before leaving it overnight.
    Unless they were so stoned they didn't care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    Unless they were so stoned they didn't care.
    Yea well I guess she began caring the next morning. After she shows up in her apartment, finds the door open, finds blood in the bathroom, she can't forget about that mop. She really needs to clean up the spill that had been there for hours, since yesterday. Maybe Sollecito's apartment doesn't follow the laws of nature and water just doesn't evaporate there.
    Totally makes sense.
    Last edited by jjenny; 12-09-2009 at 09:10 PM.

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    I'm curious why that expert hired by 48 hrs (Paul somebody) said there isn't good evidence to convict AK and RS. Was he told to be pro-defense? I didn't get the impression he was, but I'm asking because you folks might have heard something about that. Would he compromise his investigative business and reputation to spin a positive outcome for AK?

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    Amen!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicalMinds View Post

    Frankly IF the state dept wastes one penny of my tax dollars on this case I will be furiious..this is NOT a political case, Amanda was not a political prisoner or a diplomat]
    Me too...recession or not...

    [maybe some Americans are so stupid that we need a big warning on our passports "you are now leaving United States of America and subject to the laws of other countries"
    They are and this should also be verbally communicated w/ some people - in a real s-l-o-w manner to ensure comprehension!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    I'm curious why that expert hired by 48 hrs (Paul somebody) said there isn't good evidence to convict AK and RS. Was he told to be pro-defense? I didn't get the impression he was, but I'm asking because you folks might have heard something about that. Would he compromise his investigative business and reputation to spin a positive outcome for AK?
    I watched that show and the whole show seemed to be very much pro-Amanda and how innocent she must be.
    For instance, they tested to see if the lady could have heard people running away.
    They closed the window and said they believe it was closed because that night was cold. Well, maybe she kept the window open even if the night is cold. Maybe she likes fresh air. It's one thing to ask her if her window was closed or open, it's the other to just assume it was closed.
    The other thing, they have some blood spots which they claim show outline of the knife. They claim those blood spots show proof it's not the same knife that police found with Amanda's and supposedly the victims DNA on it.
    Well, I looked at those spots, and frankly I don't see the outline of the knife.
    Did anyone else think the outline of the knife was convincing in any way, because I don't understand how they could figure out in such a detail what exactly the knife was from the blood spots?

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    I thought they should have run the experiment both ways: window open AND window closed, just to be thorough about it. But it's easy enough to find out if the woman who said she heard footprints had her windows open or closed...they could ask her or, if she testified to it, read the transcript. I will say that I didn't hear the footsteps when they were filming inside the apt above with the window closed, so I don't think they're lying about whether it could be heard or not.

    As for the knife outline, I did see it and was able to make it out after looking at it for some time. Also, the prosecution specified it as an imprint of a knife--that's why they changed their theory to more than 1 knife involved in the crime--because the RS knife doesn't match the marks/outline of the one on the bed sheet.
    Last edited by SleuthyGal; 12-09-2009 at 09:26 PM.

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    BTW, does anyone care to discuss evidence? I earlier posted a list of things I don't have answers to, and would enjoy a discussion, if anyone feels up to it.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4542979&postcount=33"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - British student murdered in Perugia, Amanda Knox convicted #2[/ame]

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  36. #70
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicalMinds View Post
    It really doesn't matter what we think...this happened in Italy..and they found her guilty

    I don't have a drop of Italian blood in me but I find it highly offensive to blame Italy or act as if their court system is flawed just because she is American

    they found her guilty...they have appeals...and that's it

    as for Germany...they would have sent her back to Italy...the EU of today means that all the countries in Europe pretty much are on the "same page" in regards to crime

    the only place they have a problem with is sending people back the US in capital cases...cause none of their countries has the death penalty

    anytime someone manages to kill someone in the US and get back to Europe (Mexico/South America...really most anywhere) or go to Europe, our prosecutors have to "take the death penalty off the table" and sign agreements that our courts will impose a maximum of life in prison

    That has happened various times...our states do sign off on that...and honor it..otherwise we would never be able to extradite people from Europe

    Frankly IF the state dept wastes one penny of my tax dollars on this case I will be furiious..this is NOT a political case, Amanda was not a political prisoner or a diplomat

    maybe some Americans are so stupid that we need a big warning on our passports "you are now leaving United States of America and subject to the laws of other countries"
    Post of the day!
    Please help locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff and bring them home.



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  38. #71
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    Just curious. Journalist Laura Ling & her companion broke North Korea laws by stepping onto N. Korea land as they pursued a story. This was their choice. They admitted they did this and they admitted they broke the law by doing so. Should they have been left to rot in the N. Korea work camp they were sentenced to? Weren't they "subject to the laws of other countries" too? Just curious if you think this policy should only apply to Amanda Knox or if you are angry about your tax dollars being used in other cases as well?
    Last edited by SleuthyGal; 12-09-2009 at 09:42 PM.

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  40. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    I'm stuck on the alleged cleanup. Those luminol footprints, for instance, look to be in pristine condition, as footprints go. So if you're 'cleaning' and scrubbing away...wouldn't all of those footprints be smeared? That was not a very good 'cleanup.' Spritzing some luminol makes the footprints appear as if they were made in invisible ink.
    Actually, no scrubbing doesn't smear them, watch some episodes of the show Forensic Files, particularly one I just saw, "Pressed for Crime", where the perp in a meth-induced haze actually stepped on his victim. They got excellent shoe prints!
    Please help locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff and bring them home.



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  42. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    I'm stuck on the alleged cleanup. Those luminol footprints, for instance, look to be in pristine condition, as footprints go. So if you're 'cleaning' and scrubbing away...wouldn't all of those footprints be smeared? That was not a very good 'cleanup.' Spritzing some luminol makes the footprints appear as if they were made in invisible ink.
    Checkout these pictures;


    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    I watched that show and the whole show seemed to be very much pro-Amanda and how innocent she must be.
    For instance, they tested to see if the lady could have heard people running away.
    They closed the window and said they believe it was closed because that night was cold. Well, maybe she kept the window open even if the night is cold. Maybe she likes fresh air. It's one thing to ask her if her window was closed or open, it's the other to just assume it was closed.
    The other thing, they have some blood spots which they claim show outline of the knife. They claim those blood spots show proof it's not the same knife that police found with Amanda's and supposedly the victims DNA on it.
    Well, I looked at those spots, and frankly I don't see the outline of the knife.
    Did anyone else think the outline of the knife was convincing in any way, because I don't understand how they could figure out in such a detail what exactly the knife was from the blood spots?
    The Dateline is a lot fairer. IMO

    Here's the transcript; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28057560...crime_reports/

    On the right side of that page is a launch button so you can watch the full hour. I suggest it. This is just the intro.

    [ame="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/34290383#34290383"]msnbc.com Video Player[/ame]

    Here's an explanation of the Italian Legal system; [ame="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/28075834#28075834"]msnbc.com Video Player[/ame]



    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    BTW, does anyone care to discuss evidence? I earlier posted a list of things I don't have answers to, and would enjoy a discussion, if anyone feels up to it.

    Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - British student murdered in Perugia, Amanda Knox convicted #2
    I'll have to look at that later and help. I just don't have the energy to do it now. The Dateline should answer some of those questions.
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  44. #74
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    Thanks Steely Dan. I did watch the entire hour of the Dateline show the other day. Good stuff & very happy I'm able to watch online since I hadn't set my DVR to record it.

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  46. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    Just curious. Journalist Laura Ling & her companion broke North Korea laws by stepping onto N. Korea land as they pursued a story. This was their choice. They admitted they did this and they admitted they broke the law by doing so. Should they have been left to rot in the N. Korea work camp they were sentenced to? Weren't they "subject to the laws of other countries" too? Just curious if you think this policy should only apply to Amanda Knox or if you are angry about your tax dollars being used in other cases as well?
    She isn't a political prisoner.
    By the way, if an Italian comes to US, is accused of murder, tried by US jury and convicted, do you think US should just send him/her back?
    Foreigners who come into this country will have to follow US laws. Why should it be any different for US citizens who go into other countries?

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