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Thread: British student murdered in Perugia, Amanda Knox convicted #2

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brwnigirl View Post
    adnoid i just saw your note. I don't think I am attacking personally but if my post is inappropriate let me know?
    Brwni
    Ditto, please and thank you, adnoid.


    Salem, FOA = Friends of Amanda

  2. #102
    What do we know about the parents of Rafaele besides the dad is a doctor? Where do they live and did they attend the trial? Are they in contact with Amanda's parents?

    All I have read is that as the verdict was read, the stepmother of RS began sobbing and yelled Va Fancula ( F...Y).

    Does anyone know if RS and AK were allowed to correspond before he was moved to another location?
    Last edited by Brwnigirl; 12-10-2009 at 04:02 AM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    Just curious. Journalist Laura Ling & her companion broke North Korea laws by stepping onto N. Korea land as they pursued a story. This was their choice. They admitted they did this and they admitted they broke the law by doing so. Should they have been left to rot in the N. Korea work camp they were sentenced to? Weren't they "subject to the laws of other countries" too? Just curious if you think this policy should only apply to Amanda Knox or if you are angry about your tax dollars being used in other cases as well?
    IMO Yes, they were subject to the laws of another country...frankly, I didn't care if they were left to rot there. It's a risk they were aware of and willing to take.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    What is FOA?

    TIA,

    Salem
    Friends of Amanda. http://www.friendsofamanda.org/

    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    Here are some questions I have that I haven't found answers for yet (in no specific order).

    1. The rock that was thrown through the window--any fingerprints on that? DNA? Anything?
    I don't think it was ever tested. Probably because the rock was too porous to find any. I can't find anything about it being tested or not or why it wasn't tested. I did find this article which is interesting.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...7995762&page=1

    According to Pasquali, the rock was thrown from a terrace across from the window, making the glass "explode" on the inside and spreading glass fragments everywhere on the inside and the outside of the windowsill.

    Pasquali said that he had re-created the same conditions that were found in Romanelli's room at the time of the break-in. Pasquali said he constructed a window of the same size, with the same paint and the same type of glass, and threw the rock through it into a room with the same characteristics as Romanelli's room. Two video cameras -- one inside and one outside -- filmed the rock being thrown through the glass.

    By analyzing the trajectory of the rock and the projection of the glass shards, Pasquali said he could "exclude that the glass could have been broken from the inside."

    Prosecutors, however, contend that shutters outside the window could have prevented a rock from breaking it.

    Did Shutters Block Rock?

    The two prosecutors in the case, Giuliano Mignini and Manuela Comodi, made a number of objections when they cross-questioned Pasquali, who admitted that he had not taken into account the fact that there were shutters on the outside of the original window.

    Prosecution witnesses have testified that the shutters were partially closed on the morning after the murder, and Pasquali conceded that the closed shutters would have prevented a rock from the breaking the window from the outside.

    2. Any fingerprints, fibers, DNA, anything on any of the broken glass, window frames of the 2 windows? Anything there at all?
    I can't find a link for this but I thought I heard somewhere that there was no blood or fibers found on the sill. Also the only fingerprints were AK's and RS's. Somebody would have had to grab on to the sill in order to get in. (Don't quote me on that. I can't remember the source.)

    3. The 2 MK phones thrown away and found--fingerprints on those? DNA on either phone? What calls were made & received on those phones? Times?
    Since the cops handed the cell phones to Amanda it would make any prints irrelevant.

    4. Glass on top of clothes = staged break in? None of these items were left out previously?
    The roommate who's room it was testified she had left the room clean and there were no clothes on the floor. The prosecutions theory is that the clothes were thrown around to make it look like a burglary before the window was smashed and the glass on top of the clothes proves a staged robbery.

    5. If footprints were revealed by luminol in hallway and they are shown to look intact, then how is it they were wiped away? Wouldn't they appear all smeared and unable to be identified?
    No, if you watch Forensic Files you'll see how Luminol works. They are just wiping away the surface blood.

    6. Eyewitness/earwitness across the street said she heard footsteps of several (3) people running away after the screams. 48 hrs repeated this test in the apt above & with windows closed, could not detect the sound of footsteps. Why would RS and AK need to run away if they were going to instead do a cleanup? Wouldn't CCTV have captured them coming in the house & leaving?
    I didn't see the 48 hours show but somebody here mentioned the window could have been open based on what the resident said. I've heard the piece was pro Amanda.

    7. MK's room was pretty tiny--why was her body even attempted to be moved around the room? To recover evidence?
    I guess you'll have to ask Amanda, Guede and Raf about that. I don't know why.

    8. Some footprints were made with shoes and others were barefoot. Anyone see an analysis of who was wearing shoes and who wasn't and why? AK said she came home & took a shower.

    9. Is it possible that RG was there with someone else (not AK and not RS) and that person's footprints are what appear?
    This link should answer those questions.

    10. Where was the knife that the police confiscated from RS's? In the knife drawer? In a closet?
    I'm still waiting back for an answer from Wendy Murphy on this.

    11. When was bleach used in RS's apt? Before the murder? After the murder? The next day?
    I don't know and the only bleach I know of from RS's apt. was used on the knife.

    12. The mop that AK mentions in her email that she needs to take to RS's house. Was this ever found and was it tested?
    I don't know if AK ever used her story about the mop to the cops.

    13. Clothes that RS and AK wore on Nov 1 and the morning of Nov 2. Were these ever found? What about their shoes -- found?
    This is the best I could find; http://www.jurorthirteen.com/General...8/Default.aspx

    The following morning, the Postal and Communication Police came to investigate the discovery of two mobile phones in a nearby garden, one which was registered to Ms Kercher. When they breached the door to Kercher's room, which had been locked from the inside, they reportedly found Kercher lying beneath a duvet in her room "soaked in blood." Police have said Kercher's throat was slit with a shard of glass or a pen-knife, but have not yet located the murder weapon. Police initially believed that the killer or killers escaped through a broken window in Kercher's room, since the door was locked when they arrived, but now suspect the break-in was staged. The following morning, Amanda Knox was spotted by two men at a laundromat on Via Fabretti washing clothes and a pair of shoes with a "North African" man.

    I'm sure I'll have more questions as I continue on, but those are the first set I thought of.
    Those are great questions. They made me interested and then frustrated because I couldn't find a lot of stuff.
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  6. #105
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    Thank so much Steely Dan! This is exactly the kind of evidence dialog I was hoping for. It is maddening that information about the case (the evidence information) is spread out and somewhat elusive to find. That rock, for instance, might have had fibers on it from one of the perp's clothes, or skin cells, or something. Maybe not, but each little piece in this puzzle can potentially contain some physical or forensic evidence. Each item touched by anyone involved in this crime could be important to understanding how this crime happened and who did what.

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  8. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    It's just frustrating that people still think AK and RS are not guilty, or that the trial was unfair. Again, spend a few hours on the TJMK website, please!!!!
    Clearly their guilt is not as obvious to some as it is to you (and others) or there wouldn't be such a heated debate here and in other places. Experts have debated much of the evidence in this case so I suppose someone's opinions on the case might be based (at least partially) on which expert(s) they believe. I am a well-educated, well-traveled person (in other words, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck) and I am not convinced of the guilt of AK and RS. I'm not convinced of their innocence either. But, based on what I know of the case, I could not have convicted them. I'm not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt and I would need to be in order for me to convict someone of murder. As I've said before, should I become convinced, I will gladly voice that opinion. As of now, the TJMK website has not convinced me (I'm still reading it).

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    I see no reason that there should not be a healthy discussion of the evidence. It does not mean anyone is part of the FOA or not. I do take exception to the poster who feels this thread was infiltrated. I thought this site was for discussion, not just for all the guilty voters. I don't post very much, only because I have a hard time holding my tongue, and I don't particularly want to be banned. It has happened other places, and I have learned to keep my mouth shut most times.
    Back to the discussion, Amanda's "confession" looks to me like a very nieve unworldly girl who was trying very hard to please the police. They had her convinced with their insistence that she was lying, that she really thought she must not remember what happened. JMO of course. And I will continue to lurk.

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  12. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiogirl View Post
    And I will continue to lurk.
    Please don't! I love hearing everyone's insight on the case. I may not always agree with a person's point of view, but I think it is always valuable to hear other ideas and thoughts. As long as it doesn't turn into name-calling or insulting someone's intelligence...when that happens, I start losing respect, ya know? I think you've got a lot to offer here, so please don't go back into lurkdom!

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  14. #109
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    And what about those who haven't followed the case all along and now want to learn about it? Are they/we not to question anything? Are they/we not to discuss? I'm coming up-to-speed as quickly as I can; there's a lot of info to wade through. Some of you have had the advantage of the last year+ following this case. Cut the rest of us some slack and help us make sense of the evidence. Nothing wrong with looking for proof and filtering out the rumors. Wouldn't you want the same thing if you were suspected of being part of a brutal crime? I sure would.

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    Nothing wrong with it SG, if fact it is welcomed.

    It is the confrontational post that bother some... questions from the openminded don't tend to be confrontational.
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  18. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiogirl View Post
    I see no reason that there should not be a healthy discussion of the evidence. It does not mean anyone is part of the FOA or not. I do take exception to the poster who feels this thread was infiltrated. I thought this site was for discussion, not just for all the guilty voters. I don't post very much, only because I have a hard time holding my tongue, and I don't particularly want to be banned. It has happened other places, and I have learned to keep my mouth shut most times.
    Back to the discussion, Amanda's "confession" looks to me like a very nieve unworldly girl who was trying very hard to please the police. They had her convinced with their insistence that she was lying, that she really thought she must not remember what happened. JMO of course. And I will continue to lurk.
    Once she noticed that the lies were not helping the police but getting her into deeper trouble she should have started using the 'truth strategy'.

    Their lies about being on the computer (lie), pricking MK's hand while cooking (lie), and accusing Patrick leave little room for other interpretations.
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  20. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post



    I think it's very important for me to point out that what happened to Meredith was an absolute tragedy. A beautiful young lady with a very bright future ahead of her was stolen from this earth and way too soon. My heart pains for her loved ones, sincerely. Christmas and her Birthday are coming up, I bet this is an especially hard time for her family and they are in my prayers. The intention of my posts is not to take away from the fact that a tragedy did happen. My intention is to investigate whether further tragedies are occurring, as a result of the real tragedy. I don't think Meredith, as intelligent as she obviously was, would want further injustice. She wouldn't want seemingly innocent people to be victimized in her name. IF A&R are innocent, she wouldn't want this for them. She just wouldn't.

    .
    Merediths family was there for the trial. They heard everything that was said. They said after seeing the trial...there was no choice but for a jury to go with the guilty verdict. They said after hearing ALL the testimony..unlike us of course that they have NO doubt WHATSOVER that the right people have been convicted of the horrific and brutal murder of there daughter.
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  22. #113
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    I wish I had been there to see the trial first-hand and hear for myself what the evidence showed and what the testimony was. Of course I also wish I were fluent in Italian so I would be able to understand it all as well.

    I thirst for knowledge in this case. Trying to find the bits and pieces of it scattered around and then trying to determine what is true vs. what is spin, etc, etc. is very frustrating. There are a multitude of "...well I heard that she..." or "...I think I remember reading that there was..." and "...I believe the prosecution said..." statements--they abound.

    I think that's why I love the Kermit powerpoints so much. They are focusing on aspects of evidence and giving me a unique view of it and it's not so much about "...well supposedly AK said that she .....and then I heard that she..."
    Last edited by SleuthyGal; 12-10-2009 at 03:54 PM.

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  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    I wish I had been there to see the trial first-hand and hear for myself what the evidence showed and what the testimony was. Of course I also wish I were fluent in Italian so I would be able to understand it all as well.

    I thirst for knowledge in this case. Trying to find the bits and pieces of it scattered around and then trying to determine what is true vs. what is spin, etc, etc. is very frustrating. There are a multitude of "...well I heard that she..." or "...I think I remember reading that there was..." and "...I believe the prosecution said..." statements--they abound.

    I think that's why I love the Kermit powerpoints so much. They are focusing on aspects of evidence and giving me a unique view of it and it's not so much about "...well supposedly AK said that she .....and then I heard that she..."
    I understand. This case, like a couple of others, has had me in it's grips since day one. I believe when the judge's report is released we will understand much better.
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    When this story first broke in 2007, I really didn't believe that Amanda actually participated in the murder but I could see that there was something very "wrong" with the conflicting stories she and RS gave. I assumed it would come out in the course of investigation. Apparently it has.

    Anyone who's knowledge of the case is limited to US sources; particularly 48 Hours or Dateline but also NYT, Time and other "national" magazines really doesn't know the half of it. To really understand the case, you must go to the Brittish papers and the various Blogs. "Truejusticeformerideth" is the best I've found.

    You will realize that the Italians did an incredible job in the investigation. I was really impressed with the professionalism they displayed. The FOA forensic "analyst" dismisses the Italian investigation as some sort of corrupt, third would circus. Far from it. I would think the Italian people would be outraged at how their legal system has been portrayed.

    I have no idea why the US media has chosen to misrepresent the situation. Obviously FOA (a very effective, well financed PR campaign) got the jump and was able to present their "spin" to the various US media before real reporters and investigators were able to go over what was really happening in Italy. Still, that is their job and the "real" story was not that hard to find. If 48 Hours (or the NYT) considers what they do as really just selling "Entertainment" and they have decided Americans would be better "entertained" by the story of a pretty young American "victimized" by a crude, corrupt foreign "system" rather than the story of a pretty young American caught up in a murder; then can we really trust anything we hear or read. Perhaps its been this way all along. Now, there is the Internet and an army of Unpaid, amatur bloggers who actually hold the "real" media accountable.

    Anyone who wants to understand this case must go back and review the foresnic evidence. Understand exactly what they found before you consider the critcism of it. The knife found in RS's closet and six incidents of AK's and MK's blood being found together in three different rooms (including Filomena's room) are pretty close to smoking guns.

    I feel very bad for Amanda's parents but I feel far worse for Meredith's parents . I understand that Amanda's parents are hoping to raise money through donations and are counting on popular "outrage" to lead to some sort of diplomatic intervention. Threads like this are undermining their efforts.

    My anger over this is not directed at Amanda's parents who are just doing what parents do or at FOA, who are doing (quite well) what they are paid to do. I have no sympathy for Amanda, Raffaele, or Rudy because their deliberate actions led to the death of an innocent woman. My real anger is directed at the American "News" Industry that deliberatly misled us.

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  27. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    I'm sure they did. Journalists/reporters are not allowed to just waltz into N. Korea. But no one is answering the question! Whether she was or wasn't a spy isn't the issue. She broke one of N. Korea's laws (and admitted she broke it) by entering the country. Even if it's the most stupid law ever, she did break it. So she gets assisted by the U.S. but no one here minds that because it was "political?" Everything is political when you're talking one country to another country.

    I wish people would just admit they feel a bias against Amanda Knox and thus will not apply the same standards to others. Laura Ling broke a country's law, was sentenced to 12 yrs, and is not in prison.

    It's okay, you're allowed to hate Amanda Knox (many people do and possibly for very good reason), but don't use the global "if you break another country's laws you should be held responsible and stay in that country" when you (the royal you, not Steely Dan) don't really mean it for EVERYONE!
    To be honest how about the bias SOME people feel..ie poor Amanda was in Italy and the cops there dont do anything like we do so they have to be framing her? Or obviously coercing it seeing as the poor honey couldnt possibly be a pyscho m urdering witch??Seriously some posts are just laughable..its like trying to rearrange the whole court case just so that Amanda will be found not guilty.

    If you want to talk about bias theres a lot of it about...

    Btw as for liking Amanda no i doubt...i dont like people that commit the vile crimes shes been convicted of.
    Last edited by Isabella; 12-10-2009 at 04:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tizzle View Post
    I think I should say that just because I question whether the verdict was the correct one for Amanda and Raf, it doesn't mean that I think my Government should get involved. Because I don't, not at all. I don't think Amanda should be sent back to America to carry out her sentence or should be treated differently, fairly or unfairly, just because she is an American. I'm just putting my concerns down in my posts. I think it's important that all the details are accurate and in tact, which I'm not seeing a lot of in this particular case.

    I also think it's important for me to say that over the past few days, after having done more investigating, I don't think the Italian Justice System is any more flawed than America's, probably less. I think they have a fine system that has worked for them for a very long time. I think the problem here is the prosecutor, Magnini. I believe he is the one responsible for this circus we call a judicial process. It is because of him and his antics that makes me question whether or not they were given a fair trial and not because I think Italy or her justice system failed.
    My posts are JMO, of course, and nothing more.
    I am sorry but the prosecutor is just one person involved in the case.
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  29. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
    I am sorry but the prosecutor is just one person involved in the case.

    Not only that, he is just one of TWO prosecutors on the case.
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    The prosecutor's theories of the motive for the crime are, IMHO, pretty laughable. He has no factual evidence for any of those theories! He also accused some other guy...a journalist...of some sort of satanic sex thing. Seems to be one of his fav themes. I think, since motive is not required for a jury to make a determination of guilty or not guilty, he would have been better off to say, "we don't know why those 3 people killed MK...we can only know what the evidence shows us" rather than change the motive 3 or 4 times. His imagination is not evidence. There is no evidence of what the motive for the crime was, only his theories. Better to let it remain a mystery, as it surely is.

    Did Amanda hate her roommate? Where's the proof? Did Rudy intend to kill someone that night or was it a botched robbery? What evidence of 'sex games' were there? No one except for the perp knows.

    BTW, the evidence only shows who was in the house and who interacted with MK's blood. It still doesn't tell us who killed MK (I personally believe RG did it), it doesn't tell us why (though that's not required), it doesn't tell us who struck blows, who moved a body if it was moved (or why), etc. All I know for sure is that RG left the most physical evidence of himself in a place where he had no business being. And RS and AK probably stepped in MK's blood and AK bled at some point and that blood is mixed with MK (hinky to the extreme). But who actually is the one who killed MK? I don't know who that is.
    Last edited by SleuthyGal; 12-10-2009 at 04:41 PM.

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  33. #120
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    Snipped by me:

    Quote Originally Posted by kemo View Post
    When this story first broke in 2007, I really didn't believe that Amanda actually participated in the murder but I could see that there was something very "wrong" with the conflicting stories she and RS gave. I assumed it would come out in the course of investigation. Apparently it has.

    Anyone who's knowledge of the case is limited to US sources; particularly 48 Hours or Dateline but also NYT, Time and other "national" magazines really doesn't know the half of it. To really understand the case, you must go to the Brittish papers and the various Blogs. "Truejusticeformerideth" is the best I've found.


    I agree. I first heard of this about 3 years ago and thought she was being railroaded with no evidence against her. Then I came here and started reading this thread and doing my own investigating on the web and it made me do a 180.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabella View Post

    Nice.

    'She told me that she enjoyed writing and that it was her way of coping in jail. Amanda also told me she had won a prize for earlier this year for a piece of fiction but she did not tell me what it was about.'
    Earlier this week it was reported that the work was an imaginary letter from a boyfriend to his girlfriend following a drink and drugs orgy and which bore disturbing similarities to Meredith's murder.
    'She told me that she was getting on well with the other inmates in the jail and that she had had no problems with anyone. She said she was mixing well and was taking part in acting, dancing and singing classes.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
    Snipped by me:





    I agree. I first heard of this about 3 years ago and thought she was being railroaded with no evidence against her. Then I came here and started reading this thread and doing my own investigating on the web and it made me do a 180.
    Me too!

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  40. #124
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    Does anyone know where I can read the Micheli Report in FULL...not the abridged version. Apparently the full version is quite graphic and, while I know it will be extremely disturbing, I would like to have a complete picture of what happened to Meredith. TIA!

    Edited to add that I need the English version. I have found the full Italian version, but, as much as I'd like to, I can't read Italian.
    Last edited by justbeachy; 12-10-2009 at 06:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justbeachy View Post
    Does anyone know where I can read the Micheli Report in FULL...not the abridged version. Apparently the full version is quite graphic and, while I know it will be extremely disturbing, I would like to have a complete picture of what happened to Meredith. TIA!

    Is it even available to the general public?
    LEE: When I say I know my sister, I can
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