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Thread: 2009.12.09 SA Motions filed - LDB Slams Defense, JJ Protective Order

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentjbkent View Post
    Good question, especially in regards to Dr. Lee and the trunk of that car. It has been 17 months at this point.....I would imagine that any testimony he offered at trial that benefited the defense could be suggestively refuted by SA due to degradation and contamination at this point....?
    As a stark contrast, when Caylee's remains were discovered last December the Defense had a whole squad of forensic experts on the perimeter of Suburban doing pressers to complain that they needed access and needed to process the crime scene in partnership with LE. The Defense even courteously pre-identified the remains as Caylee before they were formally identified in their rush to get access.

    Since then? Nada.

    Interesting that there was a rush to judgement at that time and since then all they have done is do media tours and call it all 'junk science'.

    I think they are more focused on poking holes in the procedures and handling than the actual evidence and topics such as the duct tape contamination played into that for them.

    As we have seen time and time again, like the 1,000's of tips, rather than do the leg work they are more than happy to take any scraps that fall from the prosecution table for free.
    Last edited by cyberborg; 12-09-2009 at 10:42 PM.
    Disclaimer: All posts are my own humble opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.



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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    Wouldn't some of the evidence have degraded by now? Don't experts always need to look at evidence as early as possible to ensure the best results?

    Or is it normal to just look at discovery docs - if indeed they've even done that - and just take their good old time until the last minute and then take a quick glance at the evidence?

    Doesn't this leave thing open for the SA to question the expertise of these people? What's the jury going to think of this?

    My mind is blown. I'm sitting here repeatedly yelling at my husband, "BUT THEY HAVEN'T EVEN LOOKED AT THE EVIDENCE YET!" over and over and over.
    IMO some evidence, for instance the entomology report, is based on facts that cannot be changed. For instance if it is a fact that one diptera leg was found, whether a defense expert examines that leg or not it will still most likely be a diptera leg. Where the expert testimony comes in I think, is in the interpretation of the facts. If the defense expert suspects it is not a diptera leg, that evidence is available and will be checked. If the defense expert has a different opinion on the meaning of the facts than has the prosecutions expert, well thatís what we have a jury for.
    Some evidence is timely, and needs to be examined immediately or asap. The defense raised a big stink when they were not allowed at the scene where the remains were found. They had experts there but werenít allowed in because LE had not yet verified it was Caylee. Once the proper and necessary steps were taken by LE in recovering as much evidence as possible, the botanical evidence the defense wanted to gather had been inadvertently destroyed.
    Just a week or so ago I looked up the defense witness list, and there were only 3 names on it. That bothered me a lot, and made me ask what are they doing?
    Iím curious about this JJ protection order. It sounds to me like he recorded a conversation with a member of the defense team illegally, and then reported to police he had done that, and now the SA is trying to get any information that was talked about during that conversation to be ruled inadmissible in court. As always moo

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  5. #53
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    If JB knew what was best for him and his client, he would have asked for a plea (life in prison over the dp). I don't know if they would have given KC that but it was worth a shot.....now I believe it is too late for that. I believe that she will be found guilty and given the dp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mydailyopinions View Post
    That or..
    He didn't like hearing them say "show me the money"
    And at this point in the game, I think they are probably saying "show me LOTS and LOTS of money" in order to get involved with this defense team.

    The window of opportunity for any expert to believe that getting involved in this case would be a boost to their career slammed shut as JB fumbled and flubbed his way through the court system (imo).

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    Quote Originally Posted by waiting4change View Post
    If JB knew what was best for him and his client, he would have asked for a plea (life in prison over the dp). I don't know if they would have given KC that but it was worth a shot.....now I believe it is too late for that. I believe that she will be found guilty and given the dp.
    I have always believed that if Casey had a decent attorney a plea deal would have been a possibility. Jose wants the limelight and a short plea deal would be less of a pay off in that arena. In other words, the book deal will be better if this goes to trial.
    Last edited by Searchfortruth; 12-09-2009 at 10:51 PM.

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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentjbkent View Post
    Do you agree that Mr. Baez may be feeling another stomach ache coming on??

    I think SA has pushed them in a corner...

    I don't know. JB seems to have some secret path, map, or blueprint he is following. His behavior is consistent......act bold and clean up later. I don't think he is nervous or upset...I think he is sure that HE knows what he is doing even if the rest of us don't. His actions, at times, defy logic, but he always seems to manage to distract everyone with his behavior or departure from protocol. THis far in, I think he knows exactly what he is doing and why. I have turned my attention to finding a connection between all the "loons" oozing out of the woodwork and the defense team. Perhaps that is where his plan / blueprint will materialize. There is a common theme of Entertainment, Fast Cars, and a few more. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedeviledadvocate View Post
    IMO some evidence, for instance the entomology report, is based on facts that cannot be changed. For instance if it is a fact that one diptera leg was found, whether a defense expert examines that leg or not it will still most likely be a diptera leg. Where the expert testimony comes in I think, is in the interpretation of the facts. If the defense expert suspects it is not a diptera leg, that evidence is available and will be checked. If the defense expert has a different opinion on the meaning of the facts than has the prosecutions expert, well that’s what we have a jury for.
    Some evidence is timely, and needs to be examined immediately or asap. The defense raised a big stink when they were not allowed at the scene where the remains were found. They had experts there but weren’t allowed in because LE had not yet verified it was Caylee. Once the proper and necessary steps were taken by LE in recovering as much evidence as possible, the botanical evidence the defense wanted to gather had been inadvertently destroyed.
    Just a week or so ago I looked up the defense witness list, and there were only 3 names on it. That bothered me a lot, and made me ask what are they doing?
    I’m curious about this JJ protection order. It sounds to me like he recorded a conversation with a member of the defense team illegally, and then reported to police he had done that, and now the SA is trying to get any information that was talked about during that conversation to be ruled inadmissible in court. As always moo


    IF I am understanding this correctly, this is what I THINK happened....

    1. The defense contacted JJ and set up an interview meeting (FACT-MOTION)

    2. Interview took place and Baez began questioning JJ about searching in exact area of found remains AS TES VOLUNTEER (what has been implied)

    3. At some point, Baez questioning becomes leading in JJ's opinion (not surprising since baez doesn't know what the he77 he is doing most of the time!) so JJ conspicuously "records" meeting (or did from beginning)...I assume with cell phone? (MY OPINION)

    4. Meeting concludes and JJ immediately goes to OCSD and reports that he illegally recorded Baez (and others?) at meeting. (FACT - MOTION)

    5. OCSD contacts Baez and notifies him of crime and Baez (and others) decline prosecuting JJ for the crime he committed (it is against the law to record conversation) (FACT - MOTION)

    (I believe that Baez declined prosecuting either because he did not want this interview tactic revealed and/or did not expect that LDB would file this motion bringing it to light!)

    6. LDB prepares and files motion to notice court of incident as well as on behalf of JJ so that Baez cannot use any statement that JJ may have made during meeting that he now feels could be misleading (FACT and OPINION).

    (Just wanted to add in edit that remember that JJ did NOT seek out JB...the defense supposively FOUND him, believing he was a TES volunteer who searched the exact area Caylee was eventually found in, but whose name was NOT included in the 32 provided by Nejame, so JJ may have been suspicious from the very beginning of Baez intentions while "interviewing" him, hence carrying a recording device of some type into the meeting....)
    Last edited by Kentjbkent; 12-09-2009 at 11:09 PM. Reason: add paragraph


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    Quote Originally Posted by sleutherontheside View Post
    I don't know. JB seems to have some secret path, map, or blueprint he is following. His behavior is consistent......act bold and clean up later. I don't think he is nervous or upset...I think he is sure that HE knows what he is doing even if the rest of us don't. His actions, at times, defy logic, but he always seems to manage to distract everyone with his behavior or departure from protocol. THis far in, I think he knows exactly what he is doing and why. I have turned my attention to finding a connection between all the "loons" oozing out of the woodwork and the defense team. Perhaps that is where his plan / blueprint will materialize. There is a common theme of Entertainment, Fast Cars, and a few more. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    Oh my....you are scaring me! Half way through reading it, I had to remind myself that you were talking about Baez and NOT KC!!!! (same song, different verse?)

    LOL!

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    Do you think that the JJ incident was a set-up by JB to see what the SA would do with this witness and his tape? Maybe I misunderstood the motion, but it sounded like it would have been illegal for anyone to have listened to it. Did JB get caught. I don't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sleutherontheside View Post
    I don't know. JB seems to have some secret path, map, or blueprint he is following. His behavior is consistent......act bold and clean up later. I don't think he is nervous or upset...I think he is sure that HE knows what he is doing even if the rest of us don't. His actions, at times, defy logic, but he always seems to manage to distract everyone with his behavior or departure from protocol. THis far in, I think he knows exactly what he is doing and why. I have turned my attention to finding a connection between all the "loons" oozing out of the woodwork and the defense team. Perhaps that is where his plan / blueprint will materialize. There is a common theme of Entertainment, Fast Cars, and a few more. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    I am not as confident in any plan or strategic blueprint pre-AL.

    If you stumble around long enough blindly you are going to stumble onto something good and I personally think that something good was signing up AL --- since then there has been a purpose, a focus and, a strategy with moving parts. Not before.
    Disclaimer: All posts are my own humble opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.



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    Quote Originally Posted by CBTampa View Post
    Do you think that the JJ incident was a set-up by JB to see what the SA would do with this witness and his tape? Maybe I misunderstood the motion, but it sounded like it would have been illegal for anyone to have listened to it. Did JB get caught. I don't know.
    Well, I think if there was any "setting up" being done by JB, it was not related to the SA at all, but instead was directed more at JJ.

    JJ apparently did search for Caylee last August. He registered and searched with a TES team on at least one occasion, but apparently an area completely separate from Suburban Drive area.

    JJ also put together his own "rouge" set of searchers and in fact, was a member here at WS and posted about "his" group and where to go if you wanted to join them. He also claims (in postings here on WS I believe) that this rogue group searched the area of Suburban Drive.

    As you know, TM and Nejame were required to allow JB team to view the records of 32 TES searchers who did search within a certain radius of where Caylee was eventually found. JJ name was NOT one of these, as he apparently did not search with that group of 32.

    JB recently filed a motion declaring Tim Miller lied and purposely ommited names of searchers who searched near the remains site, and due to TM's dishonesty, JB now wants Strickland to require them to turn over all 4000 records of ALL TES searchers.

    JB now has to prove that he is indeed in possession of searchers who WERE with this 32 but were NOT included in records provided to them.

    This is where the meeting with JJ (and LB) came in. JB sought out JJ and LB (perhaps due to their postings in August online of their search efforts since those have been referenced). JB needed JJ to agree that when he was searching on Suburban, IT WAS AS A TES SEARCHER. I don't think JJ can state this as fact and felt he was being gently led to agree to such, or at least suspected that his statements to JB in meeting may eventually be manipulated to sound as if he was, so he recorded.

    Does this make sense? I don't think Baez had any clue that JJ would record or report immediately to OCSD, nor do I believe he suspected that LDB would protect anything said by JJ from being twisted around later.

    JB misjudged himself, JJ and LDB imo.

    By the way, it IS illegal for anyone to listen to it (which is why LDB states she has not heard it in motion).
    Last edited by Kentjbkent; 12-09-2009 at 11:33 PM.


  20. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentjbkent View Post
    [/B]

    IF I am understanding this correctly, this is what I THINK happened....

    1. The defense contacted JJ and set up an interview meeting (FACT-MOTION)

    2. Interview took place and Baez began questioning JJ about searching in exact area of found remains AS TES VOLUNTEER (what has been implied)

    3. At some point, Baez questioning becomes leading in JJ's opinion (not surprising since baez doesn't know what the he77 he is doing most of the time!) so JJ conspicuously "records" meeting (or did from beginning)...I assume with cell phone? (MY OPINION)

    4. Meeting concludes and JJ immediately goes to OCSD and reports that he illegally recorded Baez (and others?) at meeting. (FACT - MOTION)

    5. OCSD contacts Baez and notifies him of crime and Baez (and others) decline prosecuting JJ for the crime he committed (it is against the law to record conversation) (FACT - MOTION)

    (I believe that Baez declined prosecuting either because he did not want this interview tactic revealed and/or did not expect that LDB would file this motion bringing it to light!)

    6. LDB prepares and files motion to notice court of incident as well as on behalf of JJ so that Baez cannot use any statement that JJ may have made during meeting that he now feels could be misleading (FACT and OPINION).

    (Just wanted to add in edit that remember that JJ did NOT seek out JB...the defense supposively FOUND him, believing he was a TES volunteer who searched the exact area Caylee was eventually found in, but whose name was NOT included in the 32 provided by Nejame, so JJ may have been suspicious from the very beginning of Baez intentions while "interviewing" him, hence carrying a recording device of some type into the meeting....)
    To add to this ...... or JJ was NOT representing himself as a TES volunteer but an independent searcher and the Defense wanted to make him a TES volunteer -- to support their motion for TES to reveal all ...... using this as an example of a TES volunteer who searched the area who was not reported to them by TES = Motion.

    JJ didn't want to be implicated in a 'mistruth' or take the flak.

    ETA: Just posted the same as Kent, great minds!
    Last edited by cyberborg; 12-09-2009 at 11:36 PM.
    Disclaimer: All posts are my own humble opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.



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    And in retrospect, JJ probably could have handled this a little better by insisting upfront that the meeting be recorded (as opposed to breaking the law secretly recording it) but I do think he was really smart and probably learned from the previous situations involving other witnesses in this case. He was trying to protect himself from having his life destroyed simply by trying to find a missing little girl....

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    Although I don't own a tape recording device, IF this defense team called me in for a deposition, I believe I would invest in one and use it for said deposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Searchfortruth View Post
    Although I don't own a tape recording device, IF this defense team called me in for a deposition, I believe I would invest in one and use it for said deposition.
    ITA. I would not trust them even if I asked them to record the interview for the record or if it was a depo.

    CA video'd her civil case depo, right?, although she was blatant about it.

    I would be blatant about it, to keep the Defense honest and not use me or my words.

    Very dangerous getting involved in this case. Even on the periphery as a searcher.
    Disclaimer: All posts are my own humble opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.



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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberborg View Post
    I am not as confident in any plan or strategic blueprint pre-AL.

    If you stumble around long enough blindly you are going to stumble onto something good and I personally think that something good was signing up AL --- since then there has been a purpose, a focus and, a strategy with moving parts. Not before.
    I'm starting to think that the plan is that AL is only willing to do what she came on board to do, which is get the death penalty removed and that Baez and Baden are responsible for refuting all the evidence, creating reasonable doubt, etc.

    AL is obviously pulling her wagon, thus all the motions related to the death penalty and the lack of any attempt to view evidence, experts, etc.

    Baez and Baden....not so much but I don't think AL is worrying about that too much. She has enough on her plate and it is not what she signed on to do.

    Speaking of Baden, have we heard from her lately? Seen her signature on any motions or filings? Is she HOME?

    Wonder if she will make an appearance on Friday?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedeviledadvocate View Post
    IMO some evidence, for instance the entomology report, is based on facts that cannot be changed. For instance if it is a fact that one diptera leg was found, whether a defense expert examines that leg or not it will still most likely be a diptera leg. Where the expert testimony comes in I think, is in the interpretation of the facts. If the defense expert suspects it is not a diptera leg, that evidence is available and will be checked. If the defense expert has a different opinion on the meaning of the facts than has the prosecutions expert, well thatís what we have a jury for.
    Some evidence is timely, and needs to be examined immediately or asap. The defense raised a big stink when they were not allowed at the scene where the remains were found. They had experts there but werenít allowed in because LE had not yet verified it was Caylee. Once the proper and necessary steps were taken by LE in recovering as much evidence as possible, the botanical evidence the defense wanted to gather had been inadvertently destroyed.
    Just a week or so ago I looked up the defense witness list, and there were only 3 names on it. That bothered me a lot, and made me ask what are they doing?
    Iím curious about this JJ protection order. It sounds to me like he recorded a conversation with a member of the defense team illegally, and then reported to police he had done that, and now the SA is trying to get any information that was talked about during that conversation to be ruled inadmissible in court. As always moo
    It also sounded that "the material" that was garnered from the state's interview with JJ was in conflict with whatever was on the recording. Or I could be misreading the motion. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentjbkent View Post
    I'm starting to think that the plan is that AL is only willing to do what she came on board to do, which is get the death penalty removed and that Baez and Baden are responsible for refuting all the evidence, creating reasonable doubt, etc.

    AL is obviously pulling her wagon, thus all the motions related to the death penalty and the lack of any attempt to view evidence, experts, etc.

    Baez and Baden....not so much but I don't think AL is worrying about that too much. She has enough on her plate and it is not what she signed on to do.

    Speaking of Baden, have we heard from her lately? Seen her signature on any motions or filings? Is she HOME?

    Wonder if she will make an appearance on Friday?
    AL is in the thick of things whether she likes it or not. Her response to providing a more succinct witness list was totally inappropriate.

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    I can just imagine the trial.....

    Judge Strickland: Mr. Baez, your cross.

    Jose: No questions your honor.

    JS: Mr. Baez, your cross.

    Jose: No questions your honor.


    Judge Strickland: Mr. Baez, you may call your first witness.

    Jose: Your honor, I have no witnesses to call.....ready for closing statements.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentjbkent View Post
    [snip]

    Speaking of Baden, have we heard from her lately? Seen her signature on any motions or filings? Is she HOME?

    Wonder if she will make an appearance on Friday?
    No disrespect but I always envisioned LKB as a puppet that would pop up on early morning TV shows to chime in about 'junk science' and mis-information on DNA from strangers. Are they real experts or muppets?

    The Defense script has pre-defined roles and mis-statements that are delivered at appropriate moments, like TM with PROOF that Caylee was dumped after KC was jailed.

    They have to stick to the script and their roles so, in answer, it depends when another 'junk science' and stranger DNA op-ed presents itself.

    Media. Public. Lights. Camera. Action!
    Disclaimer: All posts are my own humble opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentjbkent View Post
    He was trying to protect himself from having his life destroyed simply by trying to find a missing little girl....
    bbm



    ITA, and that's one of the most heartbreaking things about this whole case. I think the defense has done more harm and injustice to more missing children than just Caylee. IMO a lot less people will be willing to volunteer to help search for other children because they see what can happen to them.

    I don't blame JJ one bit for the recording. Maybe he wasn't too smart about it, but who can blame him for being terrified when he got a call from Jose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentjbkent View Post
    Well, I think if there was any "setting up" being done by JB, it was not related to the SA at all, but instead was directed more at JJ.

    JJ apparently did search for Caylee last August. He registered and searched with a TES team on at least one occasion, but apparently an area completely separate from Suburban Drive area.

    JJ also put together his own "rouge" set of searchers and in fact, was a member here at WS and posted about "his" group and where to go if you wanted to join them. He also claims (in postings here on WS I believe) that this rogue group searched the area of Suburban Drive.

    As you know, TM and Nejame were required to allow JB team to view the records of 32 TES searchers who did search within a certain radius of where Caylee was eventually found. JJ name was NOT one of these, as he apparently did not search with that group of 32.

    JB recently filed a motion declaring Tim Miller lied and purposely ommited names of searchers who searched near the remains site, and due to TM's dishonesty, JB now wants Strickland to require them to turn over all 4000 records of ALL TES searchers.

    JB now has to prove that he is indeed in possession of searchers who WERE with this 32 but were NOT included in records provided to them.

    This is where the meeting with JJ (and LB) came in. JB sought out JJ and LB (perhaps due to their postings in August online of their search efforts since those have been referenced). JB needed JJ to agree that when he was searching on Suburban, IT WAS AS A TES SEARCHER. I don't think JJ can state this as fact and felt he was being gently led to agree to such, or at least suspected that his statements to JB in meeting may eventually be manipulated to sound as if he was, so he recorded.

    Does this make sense? I don't think Baez had any clue that JJ would record or report immediately to OCSD, nor do I believe he suspected that LDB would protect anything said by JJ from being twisted around later.

    JB misjudged himself, JJ and LDB imo.

    By the way, it IS illegal for anyone to listen to it (which is why LDB states she has not heard it in motion).
    Bold mine.

    So will Judge S. get to listen to the recording in order to rule on it?

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  41. #73
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    Surely JJ knew recording the phone call was a no no-
    Maybe he did do it on purpose? Maybe he felt like getting the recording "out there" was worth the risk?


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    Quote Originally Posted by sleutherontheside View Post
    I don't know. JB seems to have some secret path, map, or blueprint he is following. His behavior is consistent......act bold and clean up later. I don't think he is nervous or upset...I think he is sure that HE knows what he is doing even if the rest of us don't. His actions, at times, defy logic, but he always seems to manage to distract everyone with his behavior or departure from protocol. THis far in, I think he knows exactly what he is doing and why. I have turned my attention to finding a connection between all the "loons" oozing out of the woodwork and the defense team. Perhaps that is where his plan / blueprint will materialize. There is a common theme of Entertainment, Fast Cars, and a few more. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    Since this secret taping is coming to light,it is my guess that the Padilla crew will be the next folks coming out of the woodwork. Unless lp was allowed to tape coversations, I will not be surprised if he comes out next. We haven't heard from him lately. I can't wait I like lp. By the way,while tagging thread page 128 or later there is a JJ thread that I just read not to long ago. I think he gives some specific locations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentjbkent View Post
    Unbelievable.....just freakin' unbelievable....

    it has been almost a year and a half and the "dream team", led by JoseBGood has yet to even begun to address any of the evidence in the case?????...someone remind me, what is so "dream" about this team?

    Hope RH takes time out from honeymooning to drop by and can address the process of filing motions for continuances (of trial date) due to "defense not ready".....
    Your wish is my command, Casey Anthony: Insufficient Funds Part Deux
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