I would like to add a few insights or questions. Information given on the MPR was stated by the "witnesses", i.e., those interviewed by the police. This information is what the witnesses told police and not necessarily true unless proven. Since the MPR there have been many discrepancies as to book bag(s), whether Somer was in a fight or teased, who went looking where and for how long, etc. How do we know that SP had never babysat before? Why was he babysitting now?
From what I understand, SP did not go to work that day - reason? DT went to work but I have read that there is no proof of when she left (i.e. no time clock, etc.) and her co-workers stated she just walked out with no indication that anything was wrong. Different reports on how long she looked and when she texted SP (again he said/she said). She stated on one interview she had a "gut" reaction that Somer had been taken but she did not call 911. She did not go home right away to check on the other kids, but one can assume she trusted they were all right with SP watching them.
Can anyone give positive information that CPC went to work that day? It is said on MPR that DT called him at work but how do we know he was at work? If there are records, I am sure someone will say so here.
Finally, way back at the beginning of these threads, it was reported that SP was DT's boyfriend. Somehow it went from SP (was that a mistake) to CPC. At any rate, how this bears upon the feelings of a child who was an "outsider" or "teased" or "picked on" is well worth thinking about to try to track how and why she would routinely run off and if she ran toward someone she thought she could trust.
Do any locals know what time it would have gotten dark on Oct. 19? In North Florida, that is.
Last edited by sorrell skye; 12-13-2009 at 05:36 PM.
To understand the soul of a horse is the closest we humans can come to knowing perfection.
Could you provide a source for SP not going to work and DT leaving without indicating anything was wrong?
If CPC was not at work (and he says in the MPR he left work) then I think that would raise red flags with LE and they might have some suspects.
I hope to be back online at 6 my time. TIA
Last edited by Noway; 12-13-2009 at 08:08 PM. Reason: typo
Jacksonville, FL, USA
Oct 19, 2009
SUNRISE: 7:32 AM
SUNSET: 6:51 PM
Last edited by tarabull; 12-13-2009 at 05:40 PM.
KINDLY NOTE: Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy any post made by me.
Further, my posts are merely my humble opinion unless otherwise supported by a linked source for back-up. Thank you.
"It is through science that we prove, but through intuition that we discover." - Henri Poincare
father in heaven we join hands in your son jesus's name asking that your devine intervention would change the heart of the person that took a young life that you put here as a gift to her family, that you would give direction that would bring about a resolution in finding the killer of somer thompson. we ask that you extend great comfort to her mother,father and her sibblings during the upcoming holiday marking the birth of your son jesus, we ask for your hand in assisting the orange park sheriffs department finding the clues that will bring about a close to the loss of an innocent life, we are desperate for your love, we are lost without you, we give great thanks to you father for the lives that somer touched, we give great thanks to those that you gave strentgh to that searched for somer. we are thankful for the wings you have given her, we are thankful for all that you have given us, we ask for justice for a killer that took this precious child, we know your justice is everlasting, we know your guidance can change the heart of the person that is unknown to all of us that took somer thompson away from not only her family but from the community in which she lived. we ask this in your son jesus's name. amen..
As far as PC being at work, it would depend if he worked in a building , on site, or if he drove around for his work, and I don't think we know that. Even if he worked in a building, unless someone was right by him paying attention, I don't know you could guarantee anything by that.
I work at a job that people would say no way could a person leave. But I did work for someone for an hour while they went to the Doctor. LE would find that out if the person was a suspect, but the casual observer would not know that because of the nature of the job . I don't know if I am making sense here without saying what kind of work I do. And I don't work in a prison or LE.
PC might be a semi driver for his job, but we don't know that either. If he is some kind of driver, I question how DT could call him and he could come home right away.
If he had a company vehicle, then where is his vehicle? In a company vehicle, he would have to come home in the company vehicle-semi- or truck of some sort. Probably not.
So what did he do at that business that he could leave on command? Or was he out in his vehicle doing something for work? Where was he exactly?
Is it possible that DT and CPC had an argument the night before, and that's why DT asked SP to come to the house, and wait for the children to get home? That she was afraid he would hurt one of them?
IDK, but that makes sense to me . . .
I am sorry I can't recall where I read that SP did not work but I am SURE he was not at work that day. Likewise I recall reading that some of DT's co-workers were interviewed and stated that she just up and left, didn't look upset or anything. I will try to find out where I read these. The thing is, people give information when interviewed ... whether by the police or reporters or whatever. It may be false, it may be to cover for somebody, it may be what they think they recall...unless two or more add up as far as specificity and then that adds up to a probable scenario, then speculation can just run rampant.
The only previous babysitter arrangements I know of (before SP) was the 17 year old who said Somer ran off frequently and that she (the babysitter) was very nervous about it, and she is the one who had to call the lists of neighbors when Somer would suddenly show up. If this was a routine occurrence, I wonder why more precautions were not taken with this child, and how DT "knew" from a gut feeling that this time it was different. Just asking.
I am trying to pretend this happened before CSI and DNA and all of the modern-day methods we have of investigation. My mind says: Motive. Opportunity. Actions afterward. By everyone's account, Somer was an active, outspoken and precocious child who was probably what we might call a handful. We have SP involved in the day's scenario, who is an "Indigo" healer, meaning that he works with persons who have low self-esteem or behavior problems. We have a boyfriend whose lifestyle does not fit into the Indigo/New Age philosophy at all and who may have probably more than once gotten frustrated with all of these kids...and then a mom having lunch with the healer. We know the boyfriend drove trucks but do not know where he was during this course of events. If he is a truck driver he could have been anywhere but an office. We do not know exactly who contacted whom at exactly what time...every person told their version of the events. Significantly, we have a mom who was absolutely dedicated to not only keeping her daughter's memory alive via the media, but who was talking about becoming a missing child advocate. We have not heard from mom in a long time.
Remember in the OJ Simpson trial the apparent timeline for murder seemed almost unbelievably narrow.
I go back to: Motive. Opportunity. Behavior afterward. Anyone have any suggestions?
Thinking of possible what if's:
The abduction occurred in broad daylight.
If it was someone she knew, that person would not raise suspicion. Is it unreasonable to wonder if LE asked crossing guards, etc., if there were any adults Somer knew around the vicinities where she was last seen?
If it was someone she knew and OTHERS knew, it would not necessarily raise suspicion.
If Somer was not taken by force, but someone motioned "come here", and she went, and it was out of immediate sight of others, it would not raise suspicion.
How long would it take for someone to motion "come here" to Somer - it is somebody who has authority over her - she QUICKLY goes because she thinks she may be in trouble for running off again (I can't get that picture of her and little ST and she is pouting like she is in trouble wearing the brown outfit out of my head)...
This strong adult grabs her by the arm and before she knows what happened, puts his hand over her mouth and suffocates her or just snaps her neck, whatever, God. Is this somewhere near the empty house where a garbage bag in the waiting would not cause suspicion or where he could toss the garbage bag into a trash can and then just go back to whatever he was doing (he may have parked on the side of the road). It would not take too long at all. Would you notice a male tossing a garbage bag into a dumpster near an abandoned house? Would you notice anybody tossing garbage near anywhere? Your mind would not remember someone taking out the garbage.
The only motive I can clearly imagine is that this child took too much of DT's attention and somebody got sick and tired of it and of her.
2. I agree, the Indigo healer doesn't fit in with PC, but you can't be sure. My hubby is a big construction worker ( not homes but industrial) and you would be surprised what some of these guys are into-organic food, alternative therapies, that kind of thing.
3. It seems that SP has been in DT's life for a long time. So how did she become friends with him.
4. If it is someone very close to the T family, how did they put the body somewhere where no one knew, considering it would have to be done before LE was called and not visible during light time, although who is the poster who identified the dumpsters down Grove Park in a secluded location. Are there homes there?
I am not saying anyone's ideas are right or wrong, I'm just churning these things over and over in my mind and hoping someone comes up with some answers.
For example, I couldn't figure out why they would dig at the Gano house at night. A poster said luminol shows up in the dark. Bingo. Makes total sense.
Am I saying everyone in those circumstances loses it? NO.
I am saying that some do lose it in those circumstances.
But the body disposal still doesn't set well. Remember, when a person dies their bowels release. Clean up issues. I know I am being very dispassionate here, but it's something that needs to be addressed.
Luckily, they had a big enough garbage bag in the vehicle. That could happen.
Last edited by human; 12-13-2009 at 06:33 PM.
1. Don't have a clue about CPC and DT and SP's interchangeable relationship or possible connections to one another. SP and DT and DT's family are friends on FB but CPC is not on there. Could SP have once been more than a friend, then he was replaced by CPC but still hung around and they "remained friends" as it is said...
2. It's not so much CPC's job but his choice of friends and activities that don't fit in with the alternative/healthy choices: Harley, beer, porn, more "hard living" shall we say. Motorcycle groups of this type generally have no use for new age philosophy or lifestyle. Not trying to be judgemental or off subject, but I do wonder if CPC's favorite viewing activity was indulged in at home with the kids listening...
3. See #1, don't know. What strikes me odd is that this "very very" good friend was never asked to go to the home before, when the kids did not have adult supervision on their way home. This tells me that someone was aware Somer was having difficulties and DT felt it necessary to have someone waiting there on that day? Let's remember, not only Somer, but her twin, had JUST TURNED SEVEN. That means they were more like Six. DT said on TV that Somer didn't feel well and didn't want to go to school that day. Maybe she didn't want to face being "picked on"? DT sent her, went to work, came home from lunch, and, allegedly, asked SP to stay. Is there any proof positive that he stayed at the house the entire time? Does anyone know where ST went after he was interviewed by LE?
4, If the killer planned it they could have put her in a garbage bag right along with the other trash near the empty house. How and when she would have been transferred out of the bag or into the dumpster he knows. All of this could have been done behind the house or she could have been dragged by a strong person any place. It's the timing that matters most here, IMO The murder could have taken place very quietly and in a second by a strong person.
I have seen a lot of people die, and the greater majority of them did not release their bowels/bladders at the time. On the other hand, I have seen gruesome cases where backed up waste came out of various orifices. She might have gone to the bathroom shortly before leaving school, no waste in her body then.
"No job too large; I'll get to the bottom of it!"
Since we have been discussing SP and CPC I re-visited the latter's MySpace page. A few things:
"ridin' dirty on the motorcycle"! (punctuation his)
Truckin' in my Peterbilt!" (this is the kind of truck he drives for work?)
Also, under children:
"proud parent" Does this refer to DT's kids or does he have kids of his own - not that having his own kids would have anything to do with Somer unless he had mistreated them, etc. would give pause...
Under his friends, he has posted the Amber Alert pic of Somer, and he calls her "Oby", which I guess was his nickname for her.
On the MySpace, it lists June, 2007 so he may have indeed been "single" (i.e., not in relationship with DT at that time).
I would like to respond to Chee: As far as I know, nobody in Somer's immediate network of family or friends has been ruled out. I personally am trying to approach this from a detached manner, but using common sense with discretion and without being judgmental toward DT, I must hold to my opinion that Somer being young and having those well-known behaviors put her at risk for trouble waiting to happen.
On Noway's excellent summary, she highlights some of the former babysitter's remarks where she states that Somer's frequent "trips" (disappearances) would last from 20 minutes to an hour. DT left a list "in case" she was gone ... longer. How long is too long for a just-turned seven year old?
Timeline: CPC SAID that DT called and asked him to get off work (1620 hrs.) and that he arrived at the house (1700 hours), got the twin (left AT home?) and searched the neighborhood. This is what he told police.
DT told police that SP texted her 1600 hours. That leaves 20 minutes between the text and the call to boyfriend. This means DT was looking in the park and CPC would look in the neighborhood.
One also has to wonder why SP did not take the twin and AT and go out and look again after he texted DT.
I am not saying anyone is a bad parent.
There is a study that says that people can take up to three stresses-I think it's 3 and not 2. One of them is poverty and another is 4 or more children. I'm not saying DT is in poverty. I'm just trying to remember the stressors.
That study is referring to any human being and the stress they can take before it breaks them down. And that family had a lot of stressors even before the tragedy. I'm going to see if I can find it on the net. I heard it at a training and all I remembered is that stress raises the cortisol levels to bad levels.
Last edited by human; 12-13-2009 at 07:54 PM.
Maybe Somer wasn't feeling well that day because of an explosive argument had taken place in her home the night before. Diena could have felt okay about letting Somer go to school that day knowing that she probably wasn't really sick.
I was in an abusive relationship many years ago. When 4mer told us what she did earlier, all of a sudden the "lunch" with SP made sense - she was letting him in, not knowing what was going to happen with CPC.
Walking out of her office but not letting anyone know that something was wrong makes sense also, because of not wanting anyone there to know something was wrong with her home life (verbal abuse, etc.).
Calling CPC to "help look" makes no sense, but calling him to see where he was and what he was doing certainly does. He had plenty of time . . . then CPC shows up and is soooo comforting (as anyone who has been in an abusive relationship knows, and they are so sorry for whatever they did) . . .
Short drive to Green Cove Springs and back.
Chicken Pants - you asked the question earlier if anyone would notice a male tossing a garbage bag into a dumpster. I'll take that question one step further - would anyone notice anyone putting something in the garbage the evening before trash pick up day?
Especially at that time of day when so many people are rushing to get home from work to make dinner & do all the other things that need to be done at the end of the day - and probably feeling tired on top of it all after being at work all day.
IMO, the person could have put her in the trash in full view of the public and might have still gone unnoticed. People tend to see what they expect to see, and only notice what they choose to pay attention to, and if their minds are on other things, might not see anything at all because they're so distracted by their own thoughts and busy lives.
To understand the soul of a horse is the closest we humans can come to knowing perfection.
Please bear with me as I figure out how to respond to specific posts like you all do here.
I was asked if I am a nurse. No. I have worked in healthcare for 30 years and have had the privilege of being asked to stay at the side of many dying people. I have kept vigil until the end, and then afterwards. So I have also been with people at these, and other times of horrendous grief, at the time and afterward. I work in an administrative capacity but am very personally involved on a day to day basis. Because of this, I see human nature at its worst and often at its best. It is true that people grieve differently. I must add that there are certain trends in behaviors of people that give rise to the sincerity of their actions. The operative word is: trend.
Now if someone could give me a respond-to-your-post-only tutorial, I would be grateful. You all do G R E A T W O R K H E R E.