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Thread: UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #2

  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by JennaLee View Post
    Snipped:



    EEK! I hope not, but I see you're right. Per this article, Utah is the top for anti-depressants. It also puts Illinois in the top 10 happiest. Um, okay... And South Dakota is the happiest!? Even above Hawaii? Maybe it's all just coincidental and doesn't have to do with region.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22087867
    Yes, Utah is well known for their Prozac use... and other pills. I think it is because in general folks think they need to be perfect in this state... perfect on the outside anyway. I have been shocked over the years - these familes that seem more or less perfect, but behind closed doors it is a mess... and some of these poor moms (and some dads) would not be able to get through the day without a happy pill. Utah is a beautiful place and full of very nice people and great for families... but it is not as perfect as it is portrayed. Far from it. Also, for some folks they feel an extreme amount of pressure to live up to certain 'standards'... I personally do not buy into it - but MANY do.

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  3. #527
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    I'm trying to get caught up but who is Jovanna?

    Justice for Travis


    Sometimes the first step towards forgiveness is understanding that the other person is a complete idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyBug99 View Post
    I have a few questions....When did Susan ask the friend to come over? Was it at church earlier in the day?
    What time did the friend go to the house to help her untangle the yarn?
    How long were they working before dinner was served?
    What time was dinner?

    It has been stated that she laid down for a nap at 5:00. If she was drugged I would think it would take a little bit of time before the effects set in. Also, If it was not unusual for Susan to take afternoon naps, why would she ask someone to come over and help her with a project if she didn't expect to be able to accomplish the task? I guess I'm just seeing if there is a more precise timeline. TIA
    I got no answers, just more questions.

    I'm not saying that what JoVonna has said is untrue, about being invited to untie yarn. But, personally, I would NEVER invite a friend, even a close one, to do a chore that I think is boring, tedious, or straining. Asking someone over to help me untie yarn is like asking someone to come wash my dishes, sort out my laundry, or do my ironing.

    Not that I iron anymore.

    The pancakes and eggs could've been a tie-me-over till real dinner is served. This could explain the comments around of Josh taking the kids out to eat later on (during or after sledding.)

    Was Susan joining the kids later on for sledding/supper out, too? Or, was it already decided that it would be Josh and the boys ONLY? Was Susan feeling "tired" already when Josh said that to JoVanna?


    From the article quoted below:
    It was crocheting that brought Susan Powell together with fellow churchgoer JoVonna Owings. That friendship continued, and, shortly after Thanksgiving this year, Owings began baby-sitting Saturdays for the Powells."
    Thanksgiving this year being on the 26th of November.

    Susan's disappearance being around the 6th/7th of December.

    If JoVanna babysat Saturdays since Thanksgiving, then she babysat two days for the Powells. In the article she appears to have done it WAY longer than that, by her comments.

    http://www.sltrib.com/justice/ci_14000824?source=rss

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  6. #529
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    Black said Josh Powell is not the only person of interest. Black declined to discuss who the others are in the case.
    "We're not focused in on one person at this point," he said.Black is quick to point out, however, that a person of interest is not the same as a suspect. As an example, he said that a neighbor who might offer important information about the case would be considered a "person of interest." Everyone else who has been labeled as a person of interest, besides Powell, however, has been forthcoming with information, he said.
    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...urces-say.html
    This bee my opinion

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  8. #530
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    I may be in the minority here (ducking for cover ;-) but I don't see anything strange with JoVonna...

    I see an older lady helping out a neighbor/friend from church. I bet LE is very thankful that someone spent time with Susan so close to the time she went missing and is fortunate to have the information about her lying down, what she ate, and esp the fact that Josh didn't talk about sledding until his wife had left the room to lay down.

    I bet LE can use a lot of what she saw to help them figure out a working theory. She thinks she didn't see much... but I really think she did.. she just doesn't realize it.

    moo
    This bee my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by burbqueen View Post
    Thats it, she doesnt have to be stuck. She could have said in the beginning that she had no comment and only answered about what she saw that night and not cover for JP. Or she can change her mind. Family and friends have done it many times in various cases. I think people have guilt by association. If their friend is a murdering psycho it makes them look bad. I dont understand that either. If my friend is a murdering psycho then he/she is a murdering psycho that I will help put away given the chance!

    But to say that Josh is wonderful and fawn all over him is another thing. I think she knew that there were issues in the marriage. Why not just be honest? Or just don't say anything at all. I have serious issues with family and friends running to the media the first chance they get. I dont mind press conferences especially when a person is missing or loved ones going on shows to get the word out that a person is missing. But the tv interviews and the newspaper interviews about what they think happened and how the marriage was and defending or condeming a person leaves me a little weary.


    However, it is good for us!
    I am too wondering why everyone has to immediately jump on the tv and give interviews. I am also wondering why the brother in law is still out there giving interviews. It's not like they are pleading for whoever knows where Susan is to please let her go. If I thought my brother in law was a murderer, the last place I would be is on TV talking about it.
    IMO

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  12. #532
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    Snipped & bolded by me:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lipin One View Post
    I'm not saying that what JoVonna has said is untrue, about being invited to untie yarn. But, personally, I would NEVER invite a friend, even a close one, to do a chore that I think is boring, tedious, or straining. Asking someone over to help me untie yarn is like asking someone to come wash my dishes, sort out my laundry, or do my ironing.
    It probably didn't come out like, "Hey, can you come over and help me untangle yarn?" It was likely more like a conversation about crocheting where Susan mentioned her yarn was really tangled and JoVonna likely stated, "Hey, I can help with that!" And Susan was probably like, "Really?" And eventually it led to her coming over for dinner and yarn untangling. I have had to ask for help from an expert crocheter untangling my yarn in the past. We both worked side by side at the time and since it was small (a scarf) I just brought it to work with me.

    I would totally ask someone to come do my chores if I thought I'd get a yes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunflowerchick View Post
    I think debt is the main thing here. The local news is now reporting that they had financial trouble, and filed bankruptcy in 2007.

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9050899
    I was looking at their property records on http://www.assessor.slco.org/cfml/query/query2.cfm and noticed that in 2007 when they filed bankruptcy the value of their home was $199,100 and now in 2009 it's $163,200. I wonder if they refinanced after their bankruptcy and now they find themselves upside down in their mortgage by $36,000. Do any posters know how a bank would treat this? I wonder if their bank had started foreclosure proceedings on the home? I don't know much about this, it doesn't sound too good for a house to lose $36,000 in value in just two years, despite the new deck and landscaping projects by Josh.

    Just throwing this in the mix for possible stressors in the marriage. (also wonder if there is a life insurance policy on the mortgage to pay off the home in the event of a death)



    Value History
    Record Land Value Building Value Market Value Tax Rate
    2009 $ 74,100 $ 89,100 $ 163,200 .0140050
    2008 1 $ 87,800 $ 103,500 $ 191,300 .0122170
    2007 1 $ 56,700 $ 142,400 $ 199,100 .0124730
    90 $ 56,700 $ 127,200 $ 183,900
    2006 1 $ 50,500 $ 129,900 $ 180,400 .0139840
    90 $ 50,500 $ 124,500 $ 175,000
    2005 1 $ 41,500 $ 102,400 $ 143,900 .0141250
    2004 1 $ 37,100 $ 112,200 $ 149,300 .0145950
    90 $ 37,100 $ 98,900 $ 136,000

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  16. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrock View Post
    I'm trying to get caught up but who is Jovanna?
    Jovanna is the friend that came over to visit susan and JP in the late afternoon I believe. She is possibly the last person to see Susan. Its kinda confusing cause JP said susan had a ear ache and was sick so she went to go lie down. Jovanna's story is that susan was tired and went to go lie down, I think.

    Jovanna defended JP, said he was a good father and husband. She's in his corner for now.
    Rest in Peace John 08/09/86-04/24/2014.

    Husband, father and son. I miss you and so does your son.

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  18. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patty G View Post
    Has anyone tried to sleuth out the bankruptcy papers?
    Here's the basic information:

    U.S. Bankruptcy Court
    District of Utah (Salt Lake City)
    Bankruptcy Petition #: 07-21460
    Date filed: 04/05/2007
    Date terminated: 09/24/2007
    Date discharged: 07/12/2007
    Assigned to: William T. Thurman
    Chapter 7
    Voluntary
    No asset

    Debtor
    Joshua S. Powell
    6254 West Sarah Cir
    Salt Lake City, UT 84128
    SSN / ITIN: xxx-xx-2297
    aka
    Josh Powell

    represented by
    Russell G. Evans
    Rulon T. Burton & Assoc.
    6000 South Fashion Blvd.
    Murray, UT 84107
    (801) 288-0202
    Fax : (801) 288-0947
    Email: jeff@rulontburton.com

    Trustee
    Elizabeth R. Loveridge tr
    Woodbury & Kesler
    265 East 100 South
    Suite 300
    P.O. Box 3358
    Salt Lake City, UT 84110-3358
    (801) 364-1100

    U.S. Trustee
    United States Trustee
    Ken Garff Bldg.
    405 South Main Street
    Suite 300
    Salt Lake City, UT 84111

    Interesting documents attached (not all of them)

    Doc 1 - Petition
    Doc 2 - Statement of Financial Affairs
    Doc 7 - Amendment (to Doc 2)
    Doc 12 - Discharge

    I haven't read through them yet, but typically these are where the info is.

    This is all public information, otherwise I wouldn't post it. That said, please don't pass these around outside WS.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Μολὼν λαβέ


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    Snipped/bolded by me.

    Quote Originally Posted by nursebeeme View Post
    I may be in the minority here (ducking for cover ;-) but I don't see anything strange with JoVonna...
    I see an older lady helping out a neighbor/friend from church...
    You're not alone. I don't think it's strange either.

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  21. #537
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    Authorities have upgraded their investigation into the disappearance of a
    Utah mother to a criminal probe and say her husband's
    "lack of cooperation" has made them increasingly suspicious of him.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...UpperPromoArea

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  23. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellolisakitty View Post
    Yes, Utah is well known for their Prozac use... and other pills. I think it is because in general folks think they need to be perfect in this state... perfect on the outside anyway. I have been shocked over the years - these familes that seem more or less perfect, but behind closed doors it is a mess... and some of these poor moms (and some dads) would not be able to get through the day without a happy pill. Utah is a beautiful place and full of very nice people and great for families... but it is not as perfect as it is portrayed. Far from it. Also, for some folks they feel an extreme amount of pressure to live up to certain 'standards'... I personally do not buy into it - but MANY do.
    I wonder where Utah ranks in Ambien use? Funny thing about Ambien, it's a controlled release medication.The first layer, when used correctly, enters the system in about 15-30 minutes. If it's crushed (...and cooked into perhaps, a pancake)or chewed, it would enter the system like a rush. If one is not accustomed to using it, perhaps it could cause them to wake up suddenly and cause them serious disorientation. Possibly even vomiting.

    Just thought I'd toss that out there.

    http://www.ambiencr.com/

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  25. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by gliving View Post
    I was looking at their property records on http://www.assessor.slco.org/cfml/query/query2.cfm and noticed that in 2007 when they filed bankruptcy the value of their home was $199,100 and now in 2009 it's $163,200. I wonder if they refinanced after their bankruptcy and now they find themselves upside down in their mortgage by $36,000. Do any posters know how a bank would treat this? I wonder if their bank had started foreclosure proceedings on the home? I don't know much about this, it doesn't sound too good for a house to lose $36,000 in value in just two years, despite the new deck and landscaping projects by Josh.

    Just throwing this in the mix for possible stressors in the marriage. (also wonder if there is a life insurance policy on the mortgage to pay off the home in the event of a death)



    Value History
    Record Land Value Building Value Market Value Tax Rate
    2009 $ 74,100 $ 89,100 $ 163,200 .0140050
    2008 1 $ 87,800 $ 103,500 $ 191,300 .0122170
    2007 1 $ 56,700 $ 142,400 $ 199,100 .0124730
    90 $ 56,700 $ 127,200 $ 183,900
    2006 1 $ 50,500 $ 129,900 $ 180,400 .0139840
    90 $ 50,500 $ 124,500 $ 175,000
    2005 1 $ 41,500 $ 102,400 $ 143,900 .0141250
    2004 1 $ 37,100 $ 112,200 $ 149,300 .0145950
    90 $ 37,100 $ 98,900 $ 136,000
    I can say that house values have dropped quite a bit in Salt Lake the last two years.... tons of houses are now listed as short sales and there are forclosures all over the place.

    I sold my house in 2006 and made about $30,000.00 off of it... had bought it in 2005. I just found it listed last week for $15,000.00 less than what I got for it... and from what I could tell in the pictures they remodeled the basement and added a 2nd bathroom!

    I know folks that are upside down... they were living the high life the last few years, and then everything came crashing down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JennaLee View Post
    Snipped/bolded by me.



    You're not alone. I don't think it's strange either.
    Well I dont think Jovanna had anything to do with it, but it's odd to me as to why a friend from church/neighbor would jump to the defense of someone she has known for how long??

    Why is she calling JP on his cell ph? I dont call my friends husbands out of the blue on the cell unless she was looking for susan, but why refuse to tell what was said??

    Those are the questions I have. It's not like Jovanna is susans sister or BFF. For what i've heard Jovanna spent most of her time with Susan and the kids and not JP. So how could she have known he is such a good father and husband if she isnt that tight with them?
    Rest in Peace John 08/09/86-04/24/2014.

    Husband, father and son. I miss you and so does your son.

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    Quote Originally Posted by burbqueen View Post
    Well I dont think Jovanna had anything to do with it, but it's odd to me as to why a friend from church/neighbor would jump to the defense of someone she has known for how long??

    Why is she calling JP on his cell ph? I dont call my friends husbands out of the blue on the cell unless she was looking for susan, but why refuse to tell what was said??

    Those are the questions I have. It's not like Jovanna is susans sister or BFF. For what i've heard Jovanna spent most of her time with Susan and the kids and not JP. So how could she have known he is such a good father and husband if she isnt that tight with them?
    Maybe she just wants to believe that he is a good father and husband.
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  31. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taminator View Post
    I wonder where Utah ranks in Ambien use? Funny thing about Ambien, it's a controlled release medication.The first layer, when used correctly, enters the system in about 15-30 minutes. If it's crushed (...and cooked into perhaps, a pancake)or chewed, it would enter the system like a rush. If one is not accustomed to using it, perhaps it could cause them to wake up suddenly and cause them serious disorientation. Possibly even vomiting.
    Just thought I'd toss that out there.

    http://www.ambiencr.com/
    IF someone was given a large amount (in a pancake) this is
    exactley what would happen.
    It also can affect your heart and IMO could cause death.

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  33. #543
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    Who did Josh owe 91K in services to? What services?

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  35. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by harleysnana View Post
    IF someone was given a large amount (in a pancake) this is
    exactley what would happen.
    It also can affect your heart and IMO could cause death.
    Maybe I'm going crazy, but my mind keeps coming back to Susan suddenly needing to lay down after supper. I just can't get Ambien out of my head.

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  37. #545
    "That said, please don't pass these around outside WS"

    That strikes me funny, since WS is open to anyone to read this stuff, right?



    Anyways, some info I did not know until reading the papers, so TY:

    The vehicle Josh drove Susan (IMO) away in would be the 2005 Chrysler Town & Country.

    Josh Mom is Terri, Susan's Mom is Judy. And some other stuff, but I like to know "who's who".
    Photos from various cases (click on left-column names on the main photobucket page...they are in alphabetical order) http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/

    "LIKE" CCA: Crankycrankerson Case Archives on facebook, and please share the link: https://www.facebook.com/pages/CCA-C...479258?sk=wall

  38. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by JennaLee View Post
    Colorful? Can you clarify? I don't think I'm looking up the right thing.
    OT, but...

    It was sorta an inside joke for those discussing the Somer Thompson case.

    In that case there is a main character who "guides" Indigo children.

    Indigo children are described just about the same traits that you mentioned there for Josh.

    From Wikipedia: The concept was initially developed in the 1970s, gaining popular interest with the publication of a series of books in the late 1990s and the release of several films in the following decade.

    The spark started before that, with the advent of DNA, and supposedly sparked by the discovery of the so called "superhuman" DNA.

    It was supposed to be 52 people on earth identified with it, half of them in India.

    Note: those kids grow up to be customer service reps for AT&t and Hewlett Packard in call centers throughout India.

    Later on in the 1970s, the concept was extended to include thousands upon thousands of "difficult" children with special talents.

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_Children[/ame]

    http://www.indigochild.com/

    I don't think Josh is either an Indigo, or has ADD. I think he is distraught for what he has done and he fears more than anything getting his "just deserved."


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  40. #547
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    Filing bankruptcy on your in-laws = MAJOR FAIL

    2005
    Promissory Note
    Chuck and Judy Cox
    (address redacted by me)
    Puyallup, WA 98374
    3,000.00
    "She was just always so sweet and everybody loved her...she was just amazing"

    ~ <insert name here> after they find out their best friend is a murderer.

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  42. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taminator View Post
    Maybe I'm going crazy, but my mind keeps coming back to Susan suddenly needing to lay down after supper. I just can't get Ambien out of my head.
    Same here. It seems very odd unless she had something in her system making her feel this way. Especially with a visitor over, I wouldn't go lay down unless I absolutely could not stand on my own two feet, for fear of being rude.

    Justice for Travis


    Sometimes the first step towards forgiveness is understanding that the other person is a complete idiot.

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  44. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellolisakitty View Post
    I can say that house values have dropped quite a bit in Salt Lake the last two years.... tons of houses are now listed as short sales and there are forclosures all over the place.

    I sold my house in 2006 and made about $30,000.00 off of it... had bought it in 2005. I just found it listed last week for $15,000.00 less than what I got for it... and from what I could tell in the pictures they remodeled the basement and added a 2nd bathroom!

    I know folks that are upside down... they were living the high life the last few years, and then everything came crashing down.
    Yes, and from the bankruptcy papers Adnoid posted, it looks like Josh was very used to living off credit cards such as Lowes and Sam's Club. We all know how hard it is now to even get a credit card with new fees and interest rates. I imaging they were now using cash only and that cash was from Susan's pay check. Josh didn't appear to bring home much money. Which makes the late night camping trip even more doubtful as I don't think Susan would think the gas and groceries cost would justify the outing. She was probably more worried about being able to buy diapers for the baby.

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  46. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuziQ View Post
    Who did Josh owe 91K in services to? What services?
    It looked like phone book advertising for his real estate business. ( the year he earned $4000 or something close)

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