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  1. #16
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    Look at the hair of the supposed abductor here
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...formation.html

    And Lennie Smith here
    http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/95...e_of_grandson/


  2. #17
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    I seriously think one or more of that gang could be involved. They are believed to have targeted children from at least ages six to fourteen. Martin was in school uniform and was only five foot so he would have appeared younger. I believe they also buried Jason Swift who was found, but Mark Tildesley was never found. We also know there are reports of at least two of them abusing boys in the 1970's, and I read somewhere at least one of them had stayed in North London. I am sure whoever took him must have committed other crimes, if not before then certainly after.
    The only thing that makes me think there might not be a connection is that surely the police must have investigated this possibility. I have never read about them having done so, but they apparently looked into whether Dennis Nilsen was a suspect, so why not these known paedophiles and child killers.

    There are also more case of young murdered boys in london in the early 1980's.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/659666.stm
    eight year old Vishal Mehrota disappeared in Putney (sw london) on 29 july 1981 (royal wedding day). One thing I noted is that Putney is also on the district line like gloucester road and earls court. Someone travelling from kings cross to putney could take the piccadilly line to earls court, then district line to putney.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...x-1559081.html
    - towards the end this tals about how leslie bailey, one of the gang, and according to the article lover of lennie smith was jailed for the 1984 murder of six year old barry lewis from walworth south london.

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/I+didn......-a060681507 - talks about the gang's other killing with focus on jason Swift who it appears lived near to them in hackney. apparently they are suspected of twelve killings. I still do not understand why a group of men gang raping and drugging a child to death, get not only a manslaughter and not murder charge, but serve just nine years.

    Another thing that maes me wonder if it could eb them is the fact that they apparently used fun fairs and carnivals to lure children. It was Guy fawes night when Martin disappeared, could they have used this to get him talking to him, there often is a party like atmosphere at guy fawkes. Tenious link I realise, but the facts are someone abducted him and not for a nice reason, someone murdered him and hid the body, and in the early 1980,s and possible 70's there was a paedophile gang in London that are known to have killed children from different areas in London.
    Last edited by brit1981; 07-03-2012 at 12:51 PM.


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  4. #18
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    My mate who calls in for lunch was a protester against the release and housing of Lennie Smith in Nottingham.
    Here's the link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/369688.stm

    What's the betting one of these foul men was re-housed in Liverpool and that was the address the shrine to Martin was found.

    I read your links Brit1981, so many kids missing and dead


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  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
    My mate who calls in for lunch was a protester against the release and housing of Lennie Smith in Nottingham.
    Here's the link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/369688.stm

    What's the betting one of these foul men was re-housed in Liverpool and that was the address the shrine to Martin was found.

    I read your links Brit1981, so many kids missing and dead
    I remember the uproar when Sidney Cooke was released after just nine years, and then ws given police protection. I know he is bac in prison for abusing boys in the 1970's, but I will never understand why this group have by and large been treated so leniantly. Someone made a comparison to the moors murderers who were put in prison for life, unlie this group. yet if you think about their crimes, gang-raping a six year old to death, making sure the body of at least one seven year old victim was never found they are at least equal in horror if not worse.
    I really wish the media did not use the term "homosexual orgy" to describe their crime. An orgy, homosexual or heterosexua,l is a group of consenting adults getting together to have consensual sex. A group of men gang raping and abusing children is a gang rape not an orgy.

    I think a lot of the missing girls in the article I linked to where thought to be down to Robert Black, who kidnapped and murdered girls in scotland, ireland and england.


  7. #20
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    I spent a couple of hours only last week contacting past residents of The Red House boys home to see if at any time the boys went to Norfolk. I'm trying to place Robert Black there when April Fabb was abducted in 1969. If I could place him in and around Cromer as a boy it's possible he returned in adulthood.
    So far, like others before me I have failed.


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  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
    I spent a couple of hours only last week contacting past residents of The Red House boys home to see if at any time the boys went to Norfolk. I'm trying to place Robert Black there when April Fabb was abducted in 1969. If I could place him in and around Cromer as a boy it's possible he returned in adulthood.
    So far, like others before me I have failed.
    Isn't black suspected of kidnapping Genette tate, was that not in the 70's in Norfolk or am I getting my wires crossed. I think Black worked as a lorry driver which was why he was able to murder girls so far apart, I thin he also dumped the poor girls bodie shundreds of miles away in some cases.


  10. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post
    Isn't black suspected of kidnapping Genette tate, was that not in the 70's in Norfolk or am I getting my wires crossed. I think Black worked as a lorry driver which was why he was able to murder girls so far apart, I thin he also dumped the poor girls bodie shundreds of miles away in some cases.
    Black passed his driving test in 1976, although he owned vehicles before then it was thought his driving work started when he had a full licence. April Fabb was 1969. I think Prof. David Wilson has been trying to place him in Norfolk in 1969 without luck.
    Genette Tate was in Devon and was on his driving route through work.


  11. #23
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    Robert Black is driven by disgusting fantasies about the womb.
    So I`m quite sure he hasn't anything to do with the disappearance of Martin Allen.
    It just would not be any use for him to rape and murder a boy.


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  13. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa View Post
    Robert Black is driven by disgusting fantasies about the womb.
    So I`m quite sure he hasn't anything to do with the disappearance of Martin Allen.
    It just would not be any use for him to rape and murder a boy.


    Sorry we had gone off track there - a link I posted also mentioned some of robert black's victims.

    About black, robin, was that his lorry license or car license. Also I was getting Gennette mixed up with April.
    Back on to Martin Allen. Could his disappearence be connected to Kevin Hics who disappeared aged 16 from Croydon in1986, and Lee Boxell who disappeared aged 15 from nearby sutton in 1988. I know Martin disappeared north of the river, but the line he was on was southbound, so the abductor could have been travelling that way.


  14. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post
    Sorry we had gone off track there - a link I posted also mentioned some of robert black's victims.

    About black, robin, was that his lorry license or car license. Also I was getting Gennette mixed up with April.
    Back on to Martin Allen. Could his disappearence be connected to Kevin Hics who disappeared aged 16 from Croydon in1986, and Lee Boxell who disappeared aged 15 from nearby sutton in 1988. I know Martin disappeared north of the river, but the line he was on was southbound, so the abductor could have been travelling that way.
    Re. the license, I will have to check. Maybe he just drove a van no HGV. We could do with a separate thread for Black.
    .

    Re. Martin, I can't help but feel he was part of something larger. I need to have a look at the stops on the underground and the homes/stomping grounds of the paedofiles in Jason Swifts case.
    Edited to add - and the disappearances you have just mentioned


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  16. #26
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    It seemed the killers of Jason swift lived in Hackney, very near Jason at the time of his killing. But the gang were involved in the death of barry Lewis from South London, and Mark Tildesley from wokingham (33 miles from central London). Here is a quick timeline of disappearence and murders of boys in London from 1979 to 1988.

    1979: disappeared: martin allen, 15, on southbound piccadilly line (left from kings cross). Last seen at earls court (which is where you can get connecting trains back north, or further south). Guy Fawkes night

    1981: murdered by unknown person(s), Vishal Mehrota, 8, Putney in south london. Putney is on district line. Royal wedding day.

    1984: Disappeared, Mark Tildesley, 7, Wokingham. Disappeared from funfair. Leslie bailey convicted of murder,

    1985: Murdered, Barry Lewis, 6, walworth south london. leslie bailey convicted. Although from south London, he was apparently taken to the flat in hackney north London. Seven or eight "men" were reported to have been involved in the poor little soul's death. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1509555.html

    1985: Killed, Jason Swift 14, Hackney north london, lured to the gangs flats in hackney. Leslie bailey et al convicted of manslaughter.

    1986: Disappeared Kevin Hicks, 16, Croydon south London. Went to local shop in evening and never returned.

    1988: Disappeared, Lee Boxell, 15, Sutton, South London. Last seen on sutton high street, where he said he might go to see a football match.

    Four of these boys disappeared when there was something festive or celebratory going on - guy fawkes, royal wedding, funfair, football match. jason Swift disappeared near to where the gang lived, and I have no idea if there were funfairs or anythign on at the time Barry and kevin disappeared. But as they were nown to target children at funfairs, perhaps they also targeted them at big events like bonfire parties, street parties etc. It coudl be that someone set off to go to a bonfire party to snatch a child, and on the way saw Martin Allen.


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  18. #27
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    I'm going to look at this and get my head around the areas.
    I was working in Sutton about the time Lee Boxhall went missing. IIRC I would get the electric train from Sutton to the underground and then on to St Pancras. It was a long time ago though.

    I guess the best way to find kids would be where 'exciting' things are happening fairs , bonfires, street parties.
    I'm still stunned at the Photo of Lennie Smith and the photofit re. Martin Allen, IMO it's spot on for him.


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  20. #28
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    Lee Boxell left his friends on the 10th Sept' 88 on Sutton high street to head off to Selhurst Park football ground 7.5 miles away. Nobody knows if he got there and nobody appears to have seen him at the ground. That's quite an area to start looking if he walked. He could have been taken anywhere on that route.

    Edited to add -the game was Millwall V Charlton

    -----------------------
    Kevin Hicks lived on Sissinghurst Road, Addiscombe on March 2, 1986.

    ''At 8pm, Kevin told his mother he needed some eggs for a GCSE Home Economics exam the next day and left his house to go to Lower Addiscombe Road's 7 Eleven but was never seen again''.
    http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/n...amily_members/
    Last edited by Robin Hood; 07-06-2012 at 01:00 PM.


  21. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by brit1981 View Post
    God they are revolting. What sort of people get to gether to group rape a child. I cannot believe they only served nine years for the death of jason Swift. I also wish the media woudl not call him arent boy. He was a fourteen year old boy who had run away after his parents split up and he had to stay with a relative. He was fending for himself on the streets of London, and a group of men preyed on him, and (at least in their version), offered him money for sex.
    I've read somewhere that a lot of files relating to that investigation, Operation Orchid I think it was called, were lost too. Which always seems a bit suspicious when that happens.


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  23. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisces Cloud View Post
    I've read somewhere that a lot of files relating to that investigation, Operation Orchid I think it was called, were lost too. Which always comes across as being a bit dodgy when that happens.
    http://www.nickdavies.net/1995/04/01...hree-features/

    I think this was originallt published in the daily mail back in the mid ninties. The second feature describes the real difficulties the poice had with getting a picture of previous investigations like operation orchid i.e files missing etc


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