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  1. #1
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    CA - Angeles Forest - 2 Skulls - Wht/HispFem & AsianMale (UP 7571 & 7573), Dec'09

    http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_14072006

    Skull is found in wildfire burn area
    From wire reports
    Posted: 12/25/2009 09:54:22 PM PST

    A human skull was found on a hillside in the Angeles National Forest and authorities plan to return to search for more remains, a homicide detective said early Friday.

    "Investigators were out there about eight hours," Detective Peter Hecht of the sheriff's Homicide Bureau said. "But they can't dig at night. They need forensic archaeologists and doctors."

    The discovery of human remains was made around 5:35 p.m. Thursday on the Angeles Forest Highway near mile marker 19.36, said Deputy Rick Pedroza of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

    Mile marker 20 is near Lucas Creek, a steep drainage that feeds Big Tujunga Canyon above the Big Tujunga Dam, according to a duty officer at the Crescenta Valley sheriff's station.

    "It was a skull, found by a hiker," said Los Angeles County Coroner's Investigator Jerry McKibben. "They're going to go back up there (today) to search."

    The hillside where the skull was found is in or near a recently burned part of the forest, McKibben said. The Angeles Forest Highway winds its way through mountain watersheds that sustained severe damage during the Station Fire in August and September.

    "Apparently it's part of the burn area, but it sounds like the bones are pre-fire," McKibben said. "Just from the condition of the skull, it sounds like it was skeletonized before the fire. It's definitely a skull, not attached to the body."
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 03-12-2013 at 02:20 AM.


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  3. #2
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    Second skull found--also shows trauma.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews


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  5. #3
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    http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/ci_1...rce=rss_viewed





    ANGELES NATIONAL FOREST - The investigation into a human skull found with an apparent bullet hole in it in the Angeles National Forest on Thursday led to the discovery of a second human skull in the same area Saturday.
    The second set of human remains were discovered about 10:30 a.m. near Angeles Forest Highway mile marker 17, about 2 miles south of where hikers discovered another skull Thursday afternoon, Los Angeles County sheriff's officials said.
    The remains appeared to have been in the forest prior to the massive Station Fire that burned large portions of the forest - including the area where the remains were found - after it erupted in August, officials said. "From what I understand, they'd been there quite a while," Los Angeles County sheriff's Sgt. Jeff Hardt said. Officials declined to estimate how long the bones may have been there.

    ..more at link..
    God has a plan to help bring justice to the world -- and his plan is us.
    Gary Haugen
    Source: Founder, International


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  7. #4
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    Are they thinking it's a dumping ground for someone?
    Or just coincidence?
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.


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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    Are they thinking it's a dumping ground for someone?
    Or just coincidence?
    Angeles Crest Hwy and Angeles Forest Hwy are well-known dumping grounds for bodies. They are desolate mountain highways that are an easy drive from the Los Angeles basin and San Fernando Valley. But I would think that the close proximity of the skulls to each other would suggest that they were dumped by the same person(s). Either a double-homicide or a serial killer.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 12-27-2009 at 08:18 PM.


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  11. #6
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    I was just going to post this after seeing an article in the LA Times about it today and you all beat me to it!

    additional info/sources here:

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...al-forest.html\

    just thinking out loud - any way these skulls could go as far back as the Manson family?

    also - anyone who lives out there - where exactly in Los Angeles is this forest?
    Some people do crossword puzzles or Soduko in their spare time...I look at skeletal reconstructions and work on UID puzzles. I swear I'm not this morbid in person!

    Help Fred Murray find his daughter and bring her home. He should not be walking those woods alone!
    What Happened to Maura Murray? http://www.mauramurraymissing.com


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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by future criminologist View Post
    just thinking out loud - any way these skulls could go as far back as the Manson family?
    I suppose the timeframe could go that far back, although I doubt it because the numerous fires that have swept through there since 1969, and the subsequent mudslides and flash floods since 1969 would have either destroyed the bones or swept them into the reservoir below where they were found.

    And aside from the timeframe, I doubt that these were Manson victims. For one, the Manson family did not bother to dispose of their victims. They left them right in place where they murdered them, and enjoyed the spectacle that they left behind.

    Secondly, they used knives, not guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by future criminologist View Post
    anyone who lives out there - where exactly in Los Angeles is this forest?
    The Angeles National Forest is a vast, largely unpopulated mountainous area in the northeast end of Los Angeles County that separates the L.A. Basin and San Fernando Valley (i.e., the two primary population centers) from the Mojave desert communities of Palmdale and Lancaster. Angeles Crest highway is a 70-mile mountain road that snakes through these mountains (See Map).

    Angeles Forest.JPG
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 12-28-2009 at 07:48 PM.


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  15. #8
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    After a little thought, I am starting to think that these murders may be unrelated.

    The fact that one skull had a bullet hole, and the other skull showed some other form of trauma (presumably other than a bullet hole) would suggest that they were not killed in the same act.

    Also, the articles indicate that they were found two miles apart in a creek bed. Just this year, we had a large forest fire in the area followed by heavy rains (by Los Angeles standards) a couple of weeks ago. If the bodies were left in the vegetation in different locations prior to the fire, the fire would eliminate the vegetation that was holding the bodies in place, and the water from the rainstorms would wash the skulls into the creek bed.

    As I wrote earlier, that area is a good place to dump a body because there are few other places in Los Angeles with so few people around to see what you are doing. I would think that there are probably many more bones in the same area.


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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    As I wrote earlier, that area is a good place to dump a body because there are few other places in Los Angeles with so few people around to see what you are doing. I would think that there are probably many more bones in the same area.
    ugh, creepy. This just makes me want to have the whole area excavated! Think of how many cases you could possibly solve. But then again, I don't think the state of California has the budget for that kind of undertaking right now :-(.
    Some people do crossword puzzles or Soduko in their spare time...I look at skeletal reconstructions and work on UID puzzles. I swear I'm not this morbid in person!

    Help Fred Murray find his daughter and bring her home. He should not be walking those woods alone!
    What Happened to Maura Murray? http://www.mauramurraymissing.com


  18. #10
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    side note - this is exactly why I am not a woodsy person. When I see woods and large rural areas now, I don't think about the beauty as much as how many remains are possibly buried there.
    Some people do crossword puzzles or Soduko in their spare time...I look at skeletal reconstructions and work on UID puzzles. I swear I'm not this morbid in person!

    Help Fred Murray find his daughter and bring her home. He should not be walking those woods alone!
    What Happened to Maura Murray? http://www.mauramurraymissing.com


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  20. #11
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    I think of the same thing when I see the Florida Everglades.

    How many of our Florida MP's were thrown in the Everglades and eaten by alligators?

    And these MP cases will remain just that forever.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 12-29-2009 at 04:05 PM.


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  22. #12
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    Future,
    It's funny you say that. When hubby is driving I now see every piece of land we drive by as a prospective search area, lol.


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  24. #13
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    The two skulls found in Angeles National Forest are of a man and a woman. Their ages and identities are still unknown.

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...and-woman.html
    http://laist.com/2010/01/09/coroner_...om_angeles.php
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 01-14-2010 at 02:35 AM.


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  26. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by future criminologist View Post
    side note - this is exactly why I am not a woodsy person. When I see woods and large rural areas now, I don't think about the beauty as much as how many remains are possibly buried there.

    OMG! Don't ever come to OR you'll never sleep! lol I dunno, but I see dumpsters in NYC just as scary a dumping ground!


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  28. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billylee View Post
    OMG! Don't ever come to OR you'll never sleep! lol
    My sister lives in Redmond Oregon. There are underground caverns that run all through that area. They were formed in ancient times when lava flowed over the landscape and formed into large tubes. She took me into one near the Redmond Airport that from the outside looked like just a hole in the ground but turned out to be a cavern a mile long.

    In fact, as I recall, it was known as skeleton cave, so fortunately the dumped bodies in that particular cave had already been found before I got there .
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 01-15-2010 at 01:48 PM.


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