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View Poll Results: Is the defense hoping for an ineffective counsel defense

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  • Yes

    59 16.08%
  • No

    209 56.95%
  • Maybe?

    99 26.98%

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  1. #1
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    Mitigation: Ineffective Assistance of Counsel

    Based upon the article at the link below.......the argument regarding ineffective assistance of counsel could actually be part of an AL plan from the beginning. Here is an interesting snippet....

    http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/res...d/CJP202-2.pdf


    Although mitigation specialists utilize their prior
    professional training when they work on capital trial teams, mitigation is
    its own profession and is not a subspecialty of any one discipline.
    One could view the increasing number of appointments and training
    of mitigation specialists on capital defense teams as evidence of an improvement in safeguarding the integrity of a capital defendant’s constitutional right to a fair trial by ensuring effective assistance of counsel.7 At the same time, the rise of capital mitigation specialists has not occurred
    without the potential to introduce social costs into the capital trial system.
    These costs include the tension an interdisciplinary capital team
    experiences when its legal obligations and directives conflict with the
    non-legal professional training of some of its team members. Such internal
    tensions can in turn impact the effectiveness of the capital defense,
    especially if conflicting norms result in a mitigation specialist disagreeing
    with the attorney’s directives or compromising client confidentiality
    during the mitigation investigation. Moreover, competing ethical norms
    and world views may also impact the defendant’s family or society at
    large, such as when a social-worker-trained mitigation specialist struggles
    against what she believes to be mandatory reporting requirements
    for child abuse—especially when mandatory reporting would detrimentally
    affect the defense at the sentencing phase of the capital trial.


    One of the first things that come to mind.......AL pushing for family visits from day one, while JB had not and seemed to be isolating KC. Does this offer support for a mitigation argument?
    Another.......Terry L. stepping down due to a disagreement on how best to handle the issue of mental health coupled with JB not ordering an ind psych evaluation.
    My suspicious mind says, this was all in the big plan from day one.........but that's just me.

    Please read the rest at the link. I should mention, that the author.....is an associate of AL. I ask that you please read or at least skim the article before discussion. It will make for much more valuable discussion.
    Last edited by sleutherontheside; 12-28-2009 at 05:34 PM.

  2. #2
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    All Good Points...And..

    I think this is an excellent question and you've made some good points. But how about Baez's general court behavior and motion writing to date? Nothing more than a great source of amusement to the prosecution.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by logicalgirl View Post
    I think this is an excellent question and you've made some good points. But how about Baez's general court behavior and motion writing to date? Nothing more than a great source of amusement to the prosecution.

    ITA.....Yep.........and that could contribute as well. Once penalty phase is entered.......all bets are off and it's nothing but a race to save her life.

  4. #4
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    I find section 2 of your link especially interesting. I've thought from early on that this is what JB was trying to do because he realized he had no chance to win. At first I thought he was just a really bad atty, but then started to think he was actually pretty brilliant. Even more so after hearing about the Diaz case and finding many similarities to kc's case.

    I think this is exactly why the State had called him out like they did.
    100 years from now, it won't matter what kind of car you drove or how big your house was. What will matter is that you were important in the eyes of a child.


  5. #5
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    I don't think I can handle brilliant and Baez in the same sentence. But to me it feels like the day he sat with Casey and "told" her Caylee had been found is the day he decided he couldn't win this case - no way no how. So he got Andrea Lyons on "his" team, for the person who used to be "his" girl, and basically is going through the motions, until the death penalty phase. Well not those motions, those he doesn't seem to be even trying to do correctly.

  6. #6
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    Adnoid I hope you aren't thinking I meant Baez is trying to throw the trial for Casey. I think he is overwhelmed and can't see a way to provide a realistic defense. I mean one that might actually work. Something that isn't mud on the wall like Kronk.

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    I get the impression that the defense is anticipating a likely conviction and preparring for the sentencing phase. Thats just a feeling though.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Searchfortruth View Post
    I get the impression that the defense is anticipating a likely conviction and preparring for the sentencing phase. Thats just a feeling though.

    ITA........and with a case this big you start mitigation prep early.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Searchfortruth View Post
    I get the impression that the defense is anticipating a likely conviction and preparring for the sentencing phase. Thats just a feeling though.
    Well, if they are, imo that happened when AL walked in on the party. She is having to play catch-up and dot all the i's and cross all the t's that JB should have done from day one. He was too busy playin' and delayin' on Geraldo's yacht it looks like.

    We may not like AL one bit or agree with her draconian tactics, but she has over 130 trials under her belt and I think she is pragmatic enough to know when to hold em and when to fold em. And anyone who has taken a look at the evidence closely apparently agrees. I have yet to see any professional (and that includes RH) who is looking at this case as if there is much chance KC is not guilty. Every alternate scenario we've come up with, or the defense has tried to run up the flagpole has either had holes shot in it or is too ludicrous to reasonably suspend disbelief.

    This woman was not arrested on a whim, regardless of how infantile her family allowed her to act, she is an adult charged with a capital crime. The silly Alice in Wonderland antics the defense has spent its time creating so far is finally being balanced by someone who knows what's at stake. I'm sure AL has enough time to also mitigate the damage the arrogance and ignorance of her attorney has caused.
    "Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" - Voltaire

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by logicalgirl View Post
    I don't think I can handle brilliant and Baez in the same sentence.


    ROFLMAO!!!!


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleutherontheside View Post
    Based upon the article at the link below.......the argument regarding ineffective assistance of counsel could actually be part of an AL plan from the beginning. Here is an interesting snippet....

    http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/res...d/CJP202-2.pdf


    Although mitigation specialists utilize their prior
    professional training when they work on capital trial teams, mitigation is
    its own profession and is not a subspecialty of any one discipline.
    One could view the increasing number of appointments and training
    of mitigation specialists on capital defense teams as evidence of an improvement in safeguarding the integrity of a capital defendant’s constitutional right to a fair trial by ensuring effective assistance of counsel.7 At the same time, the rise of capital mitigation specialists has not occurred
    without the potential to introduce social costs into the capital trial system.
    These costs include the tension an interdisciplinary capital team
    experiences when its legal obligations and directives conflict with the
    non-legal professional training of some of its team members. Such internal
    tensions can in turn impact the effectiveness of the capital defense,
    especially if conflicting norms result in a mitigation specialist disagreeing
    with the attorney’s directives or compromising client confidentiality
    during the mitigation investigation. Moreover, competing ethical norms
    and world views may also impact the defendant’s family or society at
    large, such as when a social-worker-trained mitigation specialist struggles
    against what she believes to be mandatory reporting requirements
    for child abuse—especially when mandatory reporting would detrimentally
    affect the defense at the sentencing phase of the capital trial.


    One of the first things that come to mind.......AL pushing for family visits from day one, while JB had not and seemed to be isolating KC. Does this offer support for a mitigation argument?
    Another.......Terry L. stepping down due to a disagreement on how best to handle the issue of mental health coupled with JB not ordering an ind psych evaluation.
    My suspicious mind says, this was all in the big plan from day one.........but that's just me.

    Please read the rest at the link. I should mention, that the author.....is an associate of AL. I ask that you please read or at least skim the article before discussion. It will make for much more valuable discussion.
    Thank you for this article it helps to understand the role Jeanene plays into KC's defense. She will be gathering all of the "psycho-social history" on KC and provide information that may play into any mitigating factors. This is of particular importance to me, as she will be looking for patterns of behaviors in KC as well as indicators of mental illness and/or substance abuse within the entire biological family. Furthermore, she will look for opportunitites that were missed for appropriate diagnosis and treatment (ie: one of KC's friends [kio?] mentioned a conversation where KC stated she thought she was going crazy and needed help but later stated she talked to her Mom and things were all ok). One of the things she will be doing is a genogram (like a family tree).

  12. #12
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    Based upon the article - hypothetically speaking, if info came out such as accusations LA molested KC during childhood the Social worker's ethical and legal dilemmas would come into play. Jeanene would then be bound by an ethical duty to report the abuse (NASW) vs. legal duty to protect client wishes (not to disclose publically). SW is then bound to whatever the statuates of the law in FL re: how long ago the abuse happened, if there is any current allegations or possible harm to others currently (ie: LA abusing other children), or what the nature of the abuse was (ie: forcible rape vs. exploratory/age appropriate play)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
    Based upon the article - hypothetically speaking, if info came out such as accusations LA molested KC during childhood the Social worker's ethical and legal dilemmas would come into play. Jeanene would then be bound by an ethical duty to report the abuse (NASW) vs. legal duty to protect client wishes (not to disclose publically). SW is then bound to whatever the statuates of the law in FL re: how long ago the abuse happened, if there is any current allegations or possible harm to others currently (ie: LA abusing other children), or what the nature of the abuse was (ie: forcible rape vs. exploratory/age appropriate play)
    Yes, she would be bound to report and this is why I think the defense will avoid going this route. I wonder if they might go the domineering, overly critical mother route. For example, Casey was pregnant with a baby she was not ready for, tried to find a way out through adoption, but Cindy would have no part of it. As a result, Casey was not ready to be a parent and found herself stuck in a house where she was considered a failure. Casey was so scared of disappointing her mother that she had to lie for two years claiming she had a job she did not. I know I'm reaching, but with all the evidence the state has, the defense is going to have to reach too.

    Now I know Casey was an adult and should have taken responsibility for her life and Caylee's. I am just throwing out possible strategies the defense might use in the sentencing phase. Even though they will argue she didn't do it in the guilt phase, once she is convicted they can no longer argue that point. It's then that the defense has to turn and try to give the jury reasons for leniency in sentencing...and this is when the "woe is me" defense will come into play.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Searchfortruth View Post
    Yes, she would be bound to report and this is why I think the defense will avoid going this route. I wonder if they might go the domineering, overly critical mother route. For example, Casey was pregnant with a baby she was not ready for, tried to find a way out through adoption, but Cindy would have no part of it. As a result, Casey was not ready to be a parent and found herself stuck in a house where she was considered a failure. Casey was so scared of disappointing her mother that she had to lie for two years claiming she had a job she did not. I know I'm reaching, but with all the evidence the state has, the defense is going to have to reach too.

    Now I know Casey was an adult and should have taken responsibility for her life and Caylee's. I am just throwing out possible strategies the defense might use in the sentencing phase. Even though they will argue she didn't do it in the guilt phase, once she is convicted they can no longer argue that point. It's then that the defense has to turn and try to give the jury reasons for leniency in sentencing...and this is when the "woe is me" defense will come into play.
    I just posted on the kc's parents mitigating factors thread a link to the definitions of mitigating. There is an issue of separating KC from her family - however I believe the SW's duty to the client's best chance for effective counsel would trump the relationship (or lack of it) issue for the SW. KC has been cut off from all supportive factors except her atty's and Jeanene appears to be spending a lot of time with her. Jeanene should have access to the psych eval Kc was court ordered to undergo. There are more than likely some significant issues that at least caused red flags (probably if Kc was true to form she invalidated the test because she wasn't truthful and made pretty patterns in the ovals instead of answering the questions)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
    Based upon the article - hypothetically speaking, if info came out such as accusations LA molested KC during childhood the Social worker's ethical and legal dilemmas would come into play. Jeanene would then be bound by an ethical duty to report the abuse (NASW) vs. legal duty to protect client wishes (not to disclose publically). SW is then bound to whatever the statuates of the law in FL re: how long ago the abuse happened, if there is any current allegations or possible harm to others currently (ie: LA abusing other children), or what the nature of the abuse was (ie: forcible rape vs. exploratory/age appropriate play)
    CA the RN has/d the same ethical and legal obligations, family member or not. So much for mitigation IMO.

    Injustice for Caylee Marie Anthony.

    Copyright that Cindy

    Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot. Nothing is going to get better. It's not. Dr. Suess

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