Please continue here.
I don't know how to add the tags..... anyone want to do that or tell me how?
PS - RKnowley if you get a chance check out the Princess Blue thread.
Thank you, Salem. And thank you SuziQ for the pics. I'm bringing them over so everyone can see.
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4623180&postcount=1064"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UT-Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City; thread #4[/ame]
Hope that works!
Thank you Fairy. I wanted to add that I was a good hour away from Simpson Springs. It is even more desolate and less plowed out where Josh claims he was. Which really makes me question if he went out there at all. I keep thinking if Susan is anywhere rural in Northern Utah, she can't be far from a main, plowed road. Snow levels out when it falls and blows around. I've taken a tumble thinking I was stepping down six inches and had it be three feet.
Karen Ann RN posted this below, and I just wanted to bring it over to this #5 thread because I recommend this book also. This book has helped save lives.
"The Gift Of Fear" by Gavin de Becker.
A book I have bought for every woman I know.
From Wiki: "The book provides strategies to help readers avoid trauma and violence by teaching them various warning signs and precursors to violence."
de Becker’s company has been employed by various government agencies to predict and prevent violence.
I'm still a thread behind in reading, but had to jump forward to be able to post this.
From Nervous Nellie Thread 4:
"PS..To anyone who wonders, this statment of mommy staying in the woods is not necessarily 'truth' but could just be 'rumor.' It was posted on one of the news sites in the blog. The person said something about knowing someone in LE and they revealed a couple of things that were being discussed behind the scenes and this was one of the items. It was alleged to have been said by the child when LE talked to the child while the dad was being questioned also."
The 4 year old, according to the post, said "Daddy said that Mommy has to stay in the woods for a little while."
This is exactly where I think she is, unless she has been moved.
I can think of no other circumstance that the child came up with that unless he saw someone take his Mother into the woods and then come back without her. Think about it.
Where is the closest area of woods ? The closest cluster I see is just to the East, off Dixie Drive, but I can't tell how large an area it really is. Surely it has been searched ?
Being a germaphobic, I doubt she was in a vehicle any longer than necessary, and all the driving around was an attempt to think.
~~~Just My Observation~~~
Again, from a post on Thread 4; I apologize, I forgot to copy who wrote this:
"John Hellewell has the birds.
Birds can an do talk.
If birds screech out something,
do you think he will tell LE?? "
1) I use to import, tame, train, raise, and sell all types of exotic birds, from finches to McCaws. There is a photo on the FB page of Susan, Josh, Kiirsi, and family. I have zoomed in on the photo, and I am almost positive that it is a Yellow Nape Amazon parrot. They are very expensive. About 20 years ago, wholesale on one was roughly $800.
I don't know how they happened on such an expensive pet, perhaps it was purchased second-hand from someone who couldn't stand the noise. They are very loud. And I have NEVER seen one that did NOT talk. And laugh, and sing, and imitate all sorts of noises. They are very vocal !
The ones I had as pets hollared everything they heard on a frequent basis. My female had a vocabulary of over 150 words and sounds. And that was only in the 1st year I had her. She even sang a particular opera song in Spanish !
So if that birdie in the pic is indeed a Yellow Nape, you can bet your bottom dollar that things routinely spoken or yelled in that household is being repeated from dusk till dawn, in whatever household it resides in.
2) Do we still not yet know why Mr. Peterson had to call LE on Josh ? Or when it was ?
Last edited by Karen Anne RN; 01-01-2010 at 07:57 AM. Reason: Post is from Passionflower.
I'm still stuck in Thread 4. Trying to catch up.....
Originally Posted by Karen Anne RN [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4623123#post4623123"][/ame]
To add a little more perspective to this: a blessing is where they are saying a prayer for the person. To laugh in the middle of a sacred prayer is, to me, blasphemy.
Well, do you think Josh and his father are using the LDS because they know how they are? To get away with what has happened?
I mean, just a question.
No, I honestly don't see that the church is anyway involved in the investigation. Perhaps some of the Elders and members have been questioned, but I do not believe that there is anyway they are being manipulated by the Powell's or anyone else.
I just thought that laughter during such a sacred holy event was blasphemous. JMO
Again, from Thread 4: "maybe they took her somewhere to get "deprogrammed" because they felt she was being overly LDS....LOL
Josh's dad supposedly kept sending "anti-LDS" literature....."
Ya'll *do* know that this happens a lot, right ?
Personally, I don't think this is what happened, but just sayin'.....
Yep...I hear ya....I guess I was saying it half serious, too...it's just what came to mind when Kiirsi mentioned about her being taken out of state, etc....and she mentioned that people don't know the entire story, or something to that effect. I don't think it's what happened, either. Although, IIRC, Josh was spending time at Kiirsi's house after Susan "went missing"...maybe he was telling her stories as far-fetched as the well known "Zanny the Nanny" took her.
Ya know, I've tried every which way to make JP innocent in my mind - trying to find an explanation for her dissapearance and his odd reactions. I have tossed a few scenarios around. To me he looks haunted and incredibly hurt.
I've wondered if there was a huge blowup fight that became physical, and she took off while he was gone. To go underground, and somehow arrange for her helpers to contact her family at a later date to seek custody of the sons. Leaving all her possessions behind. This could explain the incredible hurt and forlorn look on JP's face. It would have left him feeling humiliated that his wife had dumped him and dissapeared, and something I doubt he would willingly convey to others, especially males.
The deprogramming I suppose is plausible, but I believe that it is usually done by the person's own family; parents.
There is no way on earth you could convince me that a complete stranger got inside the house and abducted her.
And then there's the obvious, which is what I think happened. I think it may have been a fight that got out of hand, which would explain the obvious hurt on JP's face.
For whatever reason, Kiirsi is indicating that she believes that Susan was taken unwillingly out of state, is alive, and has not been fatally harmed by JP. I find it extremely frustrating and confusing. Hoping that with time we will know her thoughts.
There has to be a LOT of information that LE is keeping close to the vest, and I find it impossible to believe for a minute that there was not a tail put on him from the minute he entered his home town. I have personally seen FBI put a tail on a case far less "dangerous."
Last edited by Karen Anne RN; 01-02-2010 at 11:23 AM. Reason: error
IMO, if someone wanted to kidnap someone to deprogram them, they would go on a vacation.
No wet spot on rug, no goofy camping trip at midnight etc.
Nope, IMO, Susan is another domestic violence statistic from an abusive husband.
She was a victim at his hand.
To deprogram her, all he had to do was take her to his dad's for a month........JMOO
This is my first post on this forum - well, any forum for that matter, so I'm a little nervous about not doing it right...please let me know if I'm out of line at any time.
First I want to thank you all for your insightful posts and hats off to all your amazing sleuthing!!!
I've read most of the posts but have been finding it hard to keep up, so might have missed a thing or two you might have mentioned already.
Assuming that Susan has come to harm, there will have been no way for her body to have been buried as surely the ground is too frozen to dig a whole - even a shallow grave (unless you have some sort of powerful machinery). So, the murderer will have had to rely on the snow covering her body. Is it a strike of luck that there was such a major snowstorm that night?
Also, if she is buried under the snow, her body should be well conserved for someone to find in the Spring. So, it would only buy the murderer a little time....
SuziQ - do I understand correctly that you are from the area? You say you doubt JP would have made the journey to where he said he had gone with the weather being as treacherous as it was. But maybe he did just what you did and stayed on the main road and disposed of the body near the road. He might have intended going to the location he said but might not have made it that far. The children would not have been any the wiser as to where they were - campsite or just off the main road.
Thank you for having me in your forum!!!
IMO, the only good thing is that LE should be getting some important info from the 4 yo....even just small details.
AND....does anyone know if it's been said anywhere that they ACTUALLY ate those dang "smores"???? I get beyond irritated when I watch that stupid clip about him saying he was just going camping and planning on having "smores" in the morning with the kids!!! Aaaaack!! Smores....Smores...Smores...LOL
Last edited by MyTinkieGirl; 01-01-2010 at 02:41 PM.
:Welcome-12-june: tulip3!!! Great to have you here.
My question is, if Josh did it, who may have helped him and how?
Was he on a time line to meet up with someone, and that's why he had to leave the fans going?
Who would want to help Josh and get rid of Susan. Who would? Or maybe Josh was on his own?
So susan is 5'4 and 130 lbs. I would imagine if she had passed on Josh would have a heck of a time moving her body as 130 lbs probally feels twice as heavy due to "dead weight"as some people put it. How big is Josh ?
What lies behind you and what lies in front of you pales in comparison to what lies inside of you....
Ralph Waldo Emerson ~
J/k... this clip is hilarious tho... maybe I'm a tad sleep deprived myself lol Happy New Year everyone... praying for Susan to be found, for happier endings in 2010, that many missing are brought home, many victims given justice.
Last edited by kiki the parrot; 01-01-2010 at 04:58 PM.
Tulip, welcome to WS. ITA. I think if Susan is dumped anywhere rural, it would have to be near a maintained road.
What is really disturbing is the way the children have been isolated from everyone they know except JP. If there is any deprogramming going on, it would be to the 4 yr old's memory of what happened the night Susan vanished. jmo