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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwenabob View Post
    Too bad she didn't have the insight of this author. Sounds like good reading for every young woman before she starts dating. (Young men, too!) Fits JP to a T.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/living/ind...res_advic.html
    For me personally, the hostile humor hit the mark. Thanks for the read, gwenabob.

    imo


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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fran View Post
    What I find disturbing about this case are the similarities to the Nancy Cooper case.

    I followed the Nancy Cooper case very closely until they finally arrested her husband. What I find eery here is, it looks to me that Susan started stashing money away and fearing Josh would take the kids from her, just at the time the Nancy Cooper case was developing.

    Nancy and her husband were from Canada and Nancy was in the U.S. on her husband's visa, ie green card. She couldn't even hold a job without her own green card. Her husband stole and hid the kids visas (so she couldn't return to Canada), he controlled her spending, her phone use, even only allowed her enough gas to take the kids to school and such. (he followed her to the gas station and only allowed so much gas) She didn't have enough money to buy the weekly food and such and she tried to make money on the side and he hindered that too.

    Just like with this case, the Coopers also borrowed from HER parents.

    I guess it's just that these scenarios in case after case after case, just reappear and they almost blend together.

    JMHO
    fran

    ps....another thing that bothers me about this case in particular, is Josh included the money Susan's dad leant them, in his bankruptcy. What a punk, IMHO.....fran
    Fran - I followed that case, too. These two cases are very similar in many respects. You're right I suppose, in case after case the thread is the same. It seems for some that finding the way out is so difficult. Then, it's just too late.

    imo


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  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollyblue View Post
    Where are the more recent emails around the time previous to Susan's disappearce? These are going back to a year/year and half before 12/09, and her friends were later saying that Susan commented they were getting along better than when these emails were written. ?? From the emails we learned she was going to start counseling with an outside therapist rather that someone within the church, yet we are not seeing any emails regarding her visits? It's not mentioned..nor JP's reaction. We just have the later talk of the sessions with someone from the church..a year later..thru Tim. Why did that change? What happen? Just....some of this is not clear..and not making sense. Also, but doesn't anyone think it's a little out of place for Susan to be so open and frank about her problems on line? I could understand her speaking in confidence with a bff, but to put it on line, including info regarding their "intimacies"....to many ...and JP maybe being able to access her online activities...or worse...someone sending it or telling JP seems a bit reckless. I mean, think about it...how would our husbands feel or what would they think if they found emails like that..that we had written? I think the marriage was definitely over, even if not recognized by Susan because she had lost respect for him. The emails tell us about Susan also at that time, but I want to see the ones from the summer and fall of 2009. What do they say? Wouldn't this be more pertinent? She was discussing of giving him an ultimatum for the spring of 2009...and yet she didn't...but was discussing it again for their anniversary in April of 2010? What happened between these emails just released and her disappearing? A lot can happen in a year or more. ???

    If the Trib wants to go back to the beginning....where is their timeline? What can they investigate and find in that last year?
    Hollyblue, I have the same questions you have. I wonder why those emails were even released to the press. What purpose does it serve. Ratings? I felt somewhat like a voyeur reading them. I also wonder why the more recent emails have not been released. I read that Jennifer Graves is writing a book so maybe we will have to wait for the book to see those recent emails, assuming Graves was the recipient.
    http://fox13now.com/2012/04/29/susan...bout-the-case/
    I do think Susan was a bit out of line to complain about Josh over email and apparently to so many people. Side note about me: My husband and I live in a small town. He told three of his co-workers (not friends) some personal things about me and it got back to me. The co-workers had called the house to talk to my husband for one thing or another and they actually "tattled" on my husband and told me what he said about me! I felt so betrayed. Because of my experience, I really cringed when I read that Susan had taken notes, with Josh's knowledge(knowledge that she was going to email them to a friend?) and when Susan wrote that she had a friend that knew shorthand and "wrote down the crazy stuff he said". I bet that made Josh mad.
    I got the impression from the emails that Susan did not mind riding a bicycle. She mentioned that they spent a family day bike riding to Walmart. Also, it sounded like Steven Powell was a shoulder to cry on about Josh. At what point in time did she get creeped out about Steven Powell? Sounds like Josh was a bit OCD about paperwork, organization and Susan disapproved of that, said Josh was avoiding her because he was cleaning/organizing.
    RE: Susan's email 10/31/08 "Update on "that husband" Appears she threatened divorce if she was not allowed to pay tithing on her income. Prior email stated she got approval for a food order and said she talked to her Bishop about getting help with bills. I would not be happy with my husband if he insisted I pay a church tithing when we did not have enough money for food/bills.
    IMHO, the emails that I read did not indicate that Josh Powell was physically abusive, or even mentally abusive. Looks to me that there were some problems with his employment, arguments on how money should be spent and church obligations. Obviously, things took a turn for the worse. I am just looking at and giving MOO on these emails on face value, ignoring the outcome of their dysfunctional marriage. They married five months after they met! I see her frustration with Josh but I do not see anything in the emails where she feared for her physical safety. She said she was going to ask the Lord if it was worth it to stay in her marriage and tolerate his constant manipulations. So, looks like vital emails are missing.
    I wonder if WVPD will ever tell what evidence they had. I would love to hear it. From the comments I read on recent news articles, people are sick of hearing nothing of importance from WVPD and think WVPD really screwed up. I wonder if Ann Rule (love her) is still going to write a book about Susan.
    I am not on Josh Powell's side whatsoever. He is a murderer. My above opinions are only about Susan's emails.


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  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulamith View Post
    Hollyblue, I have the same questions you have. I wonder why those emails were even released to the press. What purpose does it serve. Ratings? I felt somewhat like a voyeur reading them. I also wonder why the more recent emails have not been released. I read that Jennifer Graves is writing a book so maybe we will have to wait for the book to see those recent emails, assuming Graves was the recipient.
    http://fox13now.com/2012/04/29/susan...bout-the-case/
    I do think Susan was a bit out of line to complain about Josh over email and apparently to so many people. Side note about me: My husband and I live in a small town. He told three of his co-workers (not friends) some personal things about me and it got back to me. The co-workers had called the house to talk to my husband for one thing or another and they actually "tattled" on my husband and told me what he said about me! I felt so betrayed. Because of my experience, I really cringed when I read that Susan had taken notes, with Josh's knowledge(knowledge that she was going to email them to a friend?) and when Susan wrote that she had a friend that knew shorthand and "wrote down the crazy stuff he said". I bet that made Josh mad.
    I got the impression from the emails that Susan did not mind riding a bicycle. She mentioned that they spent a family day bike riding to Walmart. Also, it sounded like Steven Powell was a shoulder to cry on about Josh. At what point in time did she get creeped out about Steven Powell? Sounds like Josh was a bit OCD about paperwork, organization and Susan disapproved of that, said Josh was avoiding her because he was cleaning/organizing.
    RE: Susan's email 10/31/08 "Update on "that husband" Appears she threatened divorce if she was not allowed to pay tithing on her income. Prior email stated she got approval for a food order and said she talked to her Bishop about getting help with bills. I would not be happy with my husband if he insisted I pay a church tithing when we did not have enough money for food/bills.
    IMHO, the emails that I read did not indicate that Josh Powell was physically abusive, or even mentally abusive. Looks to me that there were some problems with his employment, arguments on how money should be spent and church obligations. Obviously, things took a turn for the worse. I am just looking at and giving MOO on these emails on face value, ignoring the outcome of their dysfunctional marriage. They married five months after they met! I see her frustration with Josh but I do not see anything in the emails where she feared for her physical safety. She said she was going to ask the Lord if it was worth it to stay in her marriage and tolerate his constant manipulations. So, looks like vital emails are missing.
    I wonder if WVPD will ever tell what evidence they had. I would love to hear it. From the comments I read on recent news articles, people are sick of hearing nothing of importance from WVPD and think WVPD really screwed up. I wonder if Ann Rule (love her) is still going to write a book about Susan.
    I am not on Josh Powell's side whatsoever. He is a murderer. My above opinions are only about Susan's emails.
    Bold by me.

    Re: Susan taking notes and sharing with a friend:

    When you are being emotionally abused and someone is twisting your words, changing his story, blaming you for everything to deflect attention from himself, you actually start to doubt your own perceptions. Having things in writing can help to remind you that he DID say those things and things WERE that bad. Also, you may need validation from another party for the same purpose. You begin to distrust yourself because you are constantly being manipulated, and you start to doubt your own perceptions.

    Re: Steven Powell being a shoulder to cry on:

    Steven probably played up consoling her to get close to her, this is not hard to imagine with the inappropriate interest he had in her. And Steven is most likely a guy with no real allegiances and would surely throw Josh under the bus to gain intimacy on any level with Susan.

    Re: you statement that you don't see anything mentally abusive:

    I definitely do. I have personal family experience with people such as Josh, and I am also am a master level clinican in mental health counseling. His behavior, his controlling, his telling her one thing and then saying the other, his extreme rules all indicate this. Often emotional abuse is so subtle, constant, and insidious it is difficult to pick out exact examples. It permeates daily life and wears a woman down who has lived with it for many years.

    MOO.


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  9. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulamith View Post
    Hollyblue, I have the same questions you have. I wonder why those emails were even released to the press. What purpose does it serve. Ratings? I felt somewhat like a voyeur reading them. I also wonder why the more recent emails have not been released. I read that Jennifer Graves is writing a book so maybe we will have to wait for the book to see those recent emails, assuming Graves was the recipient.
    http://fox13now.com/2012/04/29/susan...bout-the-case/
    I do think Susan was a bit out of line to complain about Josh over email and apparently to so many people. Side note about me: My husband and I live in a small town. He told three of his co-workers (not friends) some personal things about me and it got back to me. The co-workers had called the house to talk to my husband for one thing or another and they actually "tattled" on my husband and told me what he said about me! I felt so betrayed. Because of my experience, I really cringed when I read that Susan had taken notes, with Josh's knowledge(knowledge that she was going to email them to a friend?) and when Susan wrote that she had a friend that knew shorthand and "wrote down the crazy stuff he said". I bet that made Josh mad.
    I got the impression from the emails that Susan did not mind riding a bicycle. She mentioned that they spent a family day bike riding to Walmart. Also, it sounded like Steven Powell was a shoulder to cry on about Josh. At what point in time did she get creeped out about Steven Powell? Sounds like Josh was a bit OCD about paperwork, organization and Susan disapproved of that, said Josh was avoiding her because he was cleaning/organizing.
    RE: Susan's email 10/31/08 "Update on "that husband" Appears she threatened divorce if she was not allowed to pay tithing on her income. Prior email stated she got approval for a food order and said she talked to her Bishop about getting help with bills. I would not be happy with my husband if he insisted I pay a church tithing when we did not have enough money for food/bills.
    IMHO, the emails that I read did not indicate that Josh Powell was physically abusive, or even mentally abusive. Looks to me that there were some problems with his employment, arguments on how money should be spent and church obligations. Obviously, things took a turn for the worse. I am just looking at and giving MOO on these emails on face value, ignoring the outcome of their dysfunctional marriage. They married five months after they met! I see her frustration with Josh but I do not see anything in the emails where she feared for her physical safety. She said she was going to ask the Lord if it was worth it to stay in her marriage and tolerate his constant manipulations. So, looks like vital emails are missing.
    I wonder if WVPD will ever tell what evidence they had. I would love to hear it. From the comments I read on recent news articles, people are sick of hearing nothing of importance from WVPD and think WVPD really screwed up. I wonder if Ann Rule (love her) is still going to write a book about Susan.
    I am not on Josh Powell's side whatsoever. He is a murderer. My above opinions are only about Susan's emails.
    Bold by me.

    You don't see any indication that she fears for her physical safety? What more would she have to say?

    "I'm afraid of the consequences.... him kidnapping... divorce or worse on his part". Fearing your husband will kidnap your kids ... or "worse" is not a concern in normal divorces between mentally stable people. Also, Susan writing a "will" due to her fears indicates that yes, she was indeed fearing for what could happen to her or her children.

    MOO.


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  11. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulamith View Post
    Hollyblue, I have the same questions you have. I wonder why those emails were even released to the press. What purpose does it serve. Ratings? I felt somewhat like a voyeur reading them. I also wonder why the more recent emails have not been released. I read that Jennifer Graves is writing a book so maybe we will have to wait for the book to see those recent emails, assuming Graves was the recipient.
    http://fox13now.com/2012/04/29/susan...bout-the-case/
    I do think Susan was a bit out of line to complain about Josh over email and apparently to so many people. Side note about me: My husband and I live in a small town. He told three of his co-workers (not friends) some personal things about me and it got back to me. The co-workers had called the house to talk to my husband for one thing or another and they actually "tattled" on my husband and told me what he said about me! I felt so betrayed. Because of my experience, I really cringed when I read that Susan had taken notes, with Josh's knowledge(knowledge that she was going to email them to a friend?) and when Susan wrote that she had a friend that knew shorthand and "wrote down the crazy stuff he said". I bet that made Josh mad.
    I got the impression from the emails that Susan did not mind riding a bicycle. She mentioned that they spent a family day bike riding to Walmart. Also, it sounded like Steven Powell was a shoulder to cry on about Josh. At what point in time did she get creeped out about Steven Powell? Sounds like Josh was a bit OCD about paperwork, organization and Susan disapproved of that, said Josh was avoiding her because he was cleaning/organizing.
    RE: Susan's email 10/31/08 "Update on "that husband" Appears she threatened divorce if she was not allowed to pay tithing on her income. Prior email stated she got approval for a food order and said she talked to her Bishop about getting help with bills. I would not be happy with my husband if he insisted I pay a church tithing when we did not have enough money for food/bills.
    IMHO, the emails that I read did not indicate that Josh Powell was physically abusive, or even mentally abusive. Looks to me that there were some problems with his employment, arguments on how money should be spent and church obligations. Obviously, things took a turn for the worse. I am just looking at and giving MOO on these emails on face value, ignoring the outcome of their dysfunctional marriage. They married five months after they met! I see her frustration with Josh but I do not see anything in the emails where she feared for her physical safety. She said she was going to ask the Lord if it was worth it to stay in her marriage and tolerate his constant manipulations. So, looks like vital emails are missing.
    I wonder if WVPD will ever tell what evidence they had. I would love to hear it. From the comments I read on recent news articles, people are sick of hearing nothing of importance from WVPD and think WVPD really screwed up. I wonder if Ann Rule (love her) is still going to write a book about Susan.
    I am not on Josh Powell's side whatsoever. He is a murderer. My above opinions are only about Susan's emails.
    There is a big difference in distance riding bikes from Susan's house to the local WalMart and from her house to her job.

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  13. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by erynne936 View Post
    Bold by me.

    Re: Susan taking notes and sharing with a friend:

    When you are being emotionally abused and someone is twisting your words, changing his story, blaming you for everything to deflect attention from himself, you actually start to doubt your own perceptions. Having things in writing can help to remind you that he DID say those things and things WERE that bad. Also, you may need validation from another party for the same purpose. You begin to distrust yourself because you are constantly being manipulated, and you start to doubt your own perceptions.

    Re: Steven Powell being a shoulder to cry on:

    Steven probably played up consoling her to get close to her, this is not hard to imagine with the inappropriate interest he had in her. And Steven is most likely a guy with no real allegiances and would surely throw Josh under the bus to gain intimacy on any level with Susan.

    Re: you statement that you don't see anything mentally abusive:

    I definitely do. I have personal family experience with people such as Josh, and I am also am a master level clinican in mental health counseling. His behavior, his controlling, his telling her one thing and then saying the other, his extreme rules all indicate this. Often emotional abuse is so subtle, constant, and insidious it is difficult to pick out exact examples. It permeates daily life and wears a woman down who has lived with it for many years.

    MOO.
    Thank you for the insight. About doubting perceptions. Makes sense now that you have explained it. And, good grief, I never thought that Steven Powell would console Susan to get close to her. How freaking devious.


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  15. #23
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    Doubting perceptions...Is it just me? Am I the one who's scr@wed up? Am I over-reacting? No, I'm ok, it's not that bad...

    How many of us have been in THOSE shoes? Tough to be right in the middle of it all and still try to be objective AND THEN take action...

    imo


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  17. #24
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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulamith View Post
    Thank you for the insight. About doubting perceptions. Makes sense now that you have explained it. And, good grief, I never thought that Steven Powell would console Susan to get close to her. How freaking devious.
    BBM: Well, SP got the market cornered on being devious. He taught Josh well, unfortunately for Susan and the boys...After hearing SP's "songs" to Susan, I had no doubt that he put the idea into Josh's head to kill her.
    My posts are to stay at WS, not to be moved to other forums for their members to judge. I know who is moving posts and this is fair warning. If I want my posts moved to other places, I will do it myself.

    The above post is JMO, MOO, MHO, and all other disclaimers. Please leave it here at WS! TIA


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  19. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    This is one of those cases that makes my blood boil. Especially now that I know her blood was found in that stain. LE knows there was blood, and he tried to clean it up, they know his alibi was pathetic and ridiculous, that he would take two toddlers camping at midnight in the winter, OR that any mother would ALLOW her husband to wake up her babies and take them out in that weather to 'camp.' Over my dead body is what most mothers would say about that.

    And his story that she left him, but had no car, no money, no friends or lovers evident, that she ran off with. And they are supposed to believe she left her two boys, who she loved with all of her heart, with no forwarding address?

    Come ON....I still cannot believe they let it go for so long...UUGGHHHHHHH

    I just saw the E-Investigates episode last night with Lisa Lin. I CAN'T believe all the evidence they had! The shovel in the trunk, tarps, her blood the bloody comforter in the storage unit. She was feeling sick after eating the pancakes. Her safe deposit box with her will saying if she dies and it looks like an accident it is NOT. Her phone turned off in his car. His horrible alibi. The kids saying mommy went camping with them but did not come back with them. His refusal to cooperate. The photos of his father masturbating to a picture of her on his tv screen (yuck) and the many other photos of her taken by that sick man.

    If this father could put a hatchet in his children and then burn them alive (there must have been a better way, less painful to take them) then he was capable of anything. SO SAD that the police did not arrest him sooner.


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  21. #26
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    I can look at these emails and easily see that she was being abused. Unless you have any experience with this type of person you may not see it. I don't fault her for complaining in her emails....she is the victim NOT JP-she clearly was trying to find some sort of rationale for his behavior, find help, find a way to figure out the man she lives with and asking thise who knew him may have, in her mind, been a good idea.
    She was not in a bad marriage with a normal guy to begin with so I think she can get a pass on complaining to others about her marriage to a sicko. Also just because she didn't spell out that she physically feared for her safety does not mean she didn't fear for it in reality. Or at this time maybe she was just starting to realize what trouble she was in. Who knows? Either way, like I said, I am not going to fault an abused woman for complaining to others about her marriage. She was NOT out of line in trying to get help in a situation that was spiralling out of control.

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  23. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefragile7393 View Post
    I can look at these emails and easily see that she was being abused. Unless you have any experience with this type of person you may not see it. I don't fault her for complaining in her emails....she is the victim NOT JP-she clearly was trying to find some sort of rationale for his behavior, find help, find a way to figure out the man she lives with and asking thise who knew him may have, in her mind, been a good idea.
    She was not in a bad marriage with a normal guy to begin with so I think she can get a pass on complaining to others about her marriage to a sicko. Also just because she didn't spell out that she physically feared for her safety does not mean she didn't fear for it in reality. Or at this time maybe she was just starting to realize what trouble she was in. Who knows? Either way, like I said, I am not going to fault an abused woman for complaining to others about her marriage. She was NOT out of line in trying to get help in a situation that was spiralling out of control.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
    BBM

    It was so evident that there was abuse. We were traveling from California through Salt Lake City to South Dakota about a week after Susan went missing. The first time I saw the story on the news and saw jp I knew he was responsible for Susan going missing. IMHO The system failed Susan from day one. jp should have been questioned more vehemently from day one and LE should have known about his actions and the rental car trip. There were so many missed opportunities; Charlie, Braden and Susan paid a heavy price for those mistakes.

    Salt Lake City is not exactly woman friendly when it comes to DV shelters. I would have loved to have seen Susan's case used as a catalyst for better DV shelter awareness and opportunities in SLC. I haven't seen it. So sad. How many more women have to die or go missing?

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