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Thread: AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #3

  1. #901
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    Quote Originally Posted by what about this? View Post
    What is a TS?
    Traditional Surrogate...had to look it up myself.

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  3. #902
    Quote Originally Posted by panthera View Post
    You just might be right ~ he is the villian because he won't comply with their "adoption agreement". It doesn't matter that he most likely is a very decent person who would be a great dad; they see themselves as better. MOO
    Yep. I really feel like this is what is going on with that situation.
    They likely got fed some emotional stories from EJ as well.
    But in the end, we have the police being called on EJ for busting up the apartment, taking a knife to LM's clothes and Gabriel's bed, trying to hand off the her baby to a couple of folks she met at an airport (or online or something), fleeing with the baby, claiming to have killed the baby, not offering up where the baby is, etc... meanwhile, Logan has kept his cool, refused to sign away his son, filed for custody, did all the right things, etc...

    I know that I can be fooled, but I just can't see EJ as the caring mom here, and i don't see Logan as having done anything wrong, at least not on record (regarding this specific case that is, I don't know anything about his life prior to this)

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    I think LE should subpoena the Smith's bank accounts immediately to see if a large amount of money has been recently deposited. I am now thinking that a baby selling scheme might be in operation. Gabriel passed on by mom to someone the Smith's have found. Mom doing all the work physically transferring Gabriel to them, with the Smith's pocketing most of the proceeds. Very young inexperienced desperate mom would think a small amount of money is a windfall. The Smith's first scheme fell apart when Logan made a stink. They might have never intended to adopt Gabriel to start with, but sell him from the start for a tidy amount of money. They are now all over television "assisting" in Gabriel's recovery in an attempt to CMA. Mom might think that if she keeps her mouth shut she will be released and still be able to collect on the money. If I were LE, I would investigate this couple very closely.

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  7. #904
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    I still can't get over her yelling at M Klaas. I was shocked. He is just a top notch person all the way around and certainly deserves much greater respect.

    I just don't know where NG's head is sometimes.
    I love Nancy but I've come to learn that she forms her opinions too quickly for my comfort and she has tunnel vision at times. It seems to be her way or no way and IMO leads to biased reporting. I know she's passionate about her work but cutting off your guests after asking them specific questions is a real turnoff.

    Sorry to get OT
    Last edited by Baznme; 01-09-2010 at 07:07 PM. Reason: added comment
    My posts are my opinion only.....

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  9. #905
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    Quote Originally Posted by orb4me View Post
    I have been thinking about this postpartum issue.... I have always heard that happens after the second child, not the first.(first child can also mean miscarriage/abortion/stillbirth/ectopic. Postpartum depression can also happen after any life changing events.

    Does anyone know if she really was on medication for this or any mental problems?

    I thought she looked like a spoiled brat when she left the courtroom, kinda cocky.

    Maybe the Smiths are just in it for their 10 mins of fame. They could not possibly believe they can hide the child somewhere then go get him after this blows over. Someone will always, always be watching them.

    Do we know for sure that she even went to TN? or is this her story and a blurry video thing.

    We cannot trust anyone right now, so who actually saw the child alive last?

    I love this site. You all are the greatest sleuths. You all manage somehow to gather information and work out details before LE does.
    According to EJ's Grandfather, she was on medication for PPD but she stopped taking it shortly before Gabe vanished.

    If you are talking about EJ going to TN, it is my understand that she has never visited that state and she has no connections there.

    I guess they have people in SA that last saw them at the park.

    also, I believe that one can have PPD after they have their first child. (I could be wrong about that)

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  11. #906
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    Quote Originally Posted by momtective View Post
    DD: everyday your on the news. whats going on!! i think you have something to do with the whole thing..

    TS: What did I do to you? Fight for almost 5 years for custody of my own kids! Any mother would do that that loves her kids...Your father was doing a lot of ugly underhanded things to me and causing you three to sickness because of it. Which forced me into giving him a step-parent adoption which would allow you 3 to have a normal life! How could I ... See Morefinally be pushed into that??? Because of my love for you, and because of the Bible: King Solomon had two women stand before him professing that they were both the mothers of that child. He said he will cut the child in half and they could both have one half of the child. One mother cried out, "NO", let her have the child! And that is when he knew who the real mother was.....I loved you kids so much that I was willing to give you up so that you wouldn't continue to be chopped up to bits! I won't email you again until all of this is over, and you will see that "everything" we have said has been true! And I "DO" love you!!!!

    DD: the reason why i doubt you is b/c you did the same thing to us. i have every reason! i would never be sad or hurt about the things im saying about you..b/c i know there true. stop with these stupid games. tell everyone where the baby is. its gettin old im tired of watching you on the news!! XOXO (my ass!!)
    Wow!! Good for her! I knew this had to be taking a toll of her kids and here is the proof.
    ~True strength is being able to keep it together when everyone else expects you to fall apart.~




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  13. #907
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexington View Post
    I think LE should subpoena the Smith's bank accounts immediately to see if a large amount of money has been recently deposited. I am now thinking that a baby selling scheme might be in operation. Gabriel passed on by mom to someone the Smith's have found. Mom doing all the work physically transferring Gabriel to them, with the Smith's pocketing most of the proceeds. Very young inexperienced desperate mom would think a small amount of money is a windfall. The Smith's first scheme fell apart when Logan made a stink. They might have never intended to adopt Gabriel to start with, but sell him from the start for a tidy amount of money. They are now all over television "assisting" in Gabriel's recovery in an attempt to CMA. Mom might think that if she keeps her mouth shut she will be released and still be able to collect on the money. If I were LE, I would investigate this couple very closely.
    Lexington, I think you are right on the money with this and it is called "Global child traffiking for Adoption" and me thinks that it is probably very illegal. TS and JS need to be fetched up solid on monetary items will all things frozen until the "ins" and "outs" are investigated. Cripes she even has stated that she has travelled to Africa.

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  15. #908
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    If you can pull up this link, there seems to be a lot of traffic violations with Failure to Appears. Can't find anything else right now.

    http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publ...aselookup.aspx

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  17. #909
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    Quote Originally Posted by elepher50 View Post
    Most definately the Crabb's should be checked into - will screen shot some of them as it is readily available on the internet and is public access.
    Imo, the Crabb Family when Tammi said, "We know a lot of people in Kentucky. Have you heard of The Crabb Family? They are a Southern Gospel group out of KY" she was probably talking about this singing group:
    http://www.thecrabbfamily.com/

    They're kind of famous within Southern Gospel musical circles. I wonder if Tammi was trying to find some sort of commonality with the other person, and the other person wasn't familiar with that particular musical genre? Or maybe Tammi was trying to name-drop and didn't realize that the Crabbs aren't as famous as she thought?

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  19. #910
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    Quote Originally Posted by what about this? View Post
    What is a TS?
    I believe that is a "traditional surrogate", one that is inseminated and the biological mother of the baby. A "gestational surrogate" is someone that carries the biological child of another couple and has no genetic link to the child she is carrying.

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  21. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~PrinceSSa~ View Post
    Tammi Peters Smith When are you guys coming down here? Isn't it this month? Were leaving Saturday for a week at the beach in Mexico. Were finally using our Time Share!!!!
    April 22, 2009 at 10:45am
    I wonder if anyone is using their time share right now--who might have a little baby with them.
    "I've always found brilliance untempered by failure is purely arrogance, but brilliance that has overcome failure can be truly useful to your fellow man." ~~~Paul Zuckerman, Attorney at Law


    All posts are my opinion only.


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  23. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marigold View Post
    Imo, the Crabb Family when Tammi said, "We know a lot of people in Kentucky. Have you heard of The Crabb Family? They are a Southern Gospel group out of KY" she was probably talking about this singing group:
    http://www.thecrabbfamily.com/

    They're kind of famous within Southern Gospel musical circles. I wonder if Tammi was trying to find some sort of commonality with the other person, and the other person wasn't familiar with that particular musical genre? Or maybe Tammi was trying to name-drop and didn't realize that the Crabbs aren't as famous as she thought?
    Hi Marigold,

    It was a response to TS stating
    At 4:20pm on November 25, 2008, Ashley Mills said… I'm not sure what and Al or Ts is could you give me more information on that? and I live an hour south of Lexington in a small town called London. I know a husband and wife with the last name Crabb Sandy & Joel ....he is a pastor....great family!
    Here is the screenshot:

    LE should check to see if the Crabb's ever adopted a baby via TS.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  25. #913
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~PrinceSSa~ View Post
    Tammi Peters Smith What would Jesus do? Say oh, well, let them find him! NO, he would walk barefoot and carry his own cross to his own death, just to save us all from our sins...So why should I cover my head and hide and not help? Jack and I have been the key to this whole investigation, we've helped them find just about every good clue that they have...The News ... See MoreMedia is "Reality TV" we know what goes on behind the scenes, but you don't...in order to play anything on TV, they have to have a new development in the case. That being said, we are their punching bag, and that's ok, cause if it helps find him, then we did our job! Our boss is God and he will be very happy that we did what was right even if it hurt us in the process....XOXO...When we find him and the whole truth is out, I pray your not hurt by the things you've said about me...I love you no matter what, but I wish you believed in me! After this,I hope you'll never doubt me again, nobody else that's close to me doubts us at all.....
    Yesterday at 9:55pm
    There's so many things I want to say about this, especially the part about "every good clue". But I don't know how to comment on that without getting banned, so I'll just say I am shocked that she's comparing herself to Jesus NOW? OH MY GOSH!! Next thing we know, she'll be announcing that she just parted the waters at Tempe Town Lake!
    Last edited by Marigold; 01-09-2010 at 07:17 PM. Reason: closed a quote

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  27. #914
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    Sorry, I was confused about this:

    http://www.surrogatemother.com/forum...=3ezx7h54tj890

    "
    Tammi Smith replied Nov. 21, 2008 to LOOKING FOR A COUPLE WHO CANT HAVE A BABY AND REALLY WANTS ONE... im here to help you

    Reply by Tammi Smith on November 21, 2008 at 1:40am
    Are you willing to do a TS? What state do you live in? We have been looking for a while!!! My 3 year old daughter is getting very antsy wondering when her new baby sister or brother will come, lol.....I do missions in Africa but they won't let anyone outside africa to adopt! So we are going the surrogate route since I had an emergancy hysterioectomy about 10 years ago (age 26). Please email or call us at (623) 687-1887 info@healingwatersaz.com



    I thought Tammi was looking for someone else, but that's not the case. The significant this about this post (it was on here before) is that the girl wanting to be a surrogate is still in high school and many people on there are upset that anyone would be encouraging her (such as Tammi)

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  29. #915
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    Quote Originally Posted by DairyGirl View Post
    I believe that is a "traditional surrogate", one that is inseminated and the biological mother of the baby. A "gestational surrogate" is someone that carries the biological child of another couple and has no genetic link to the child she is carrying.
    I know absolutely nothing about this whole process - so would the TS - traditional surrogate mean that the semen would be donated by JS? All of this confuses me.

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  31. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleo612 View Post
    I wonder if anyone is using their time share right now--who might have a little baby with them.
    Yes.... good question! That should be checked out by the FBI

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  33. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by elepher50 View Post
    Lexington, I think you are right on the money with this and it is called "Global child traffiking for Adoption" and me thinks that it is probably very illegal. TS and JS need to be fetched up solid on monetary items will all things frozen until the "ins" and "outs" are investigated. Cripes she even has stated that she has travelled to Africa.
    Oh No and Africa............this could be global and not just here!
    This is WILD......
    Kyron, HALEIGH, ADJI & Gabriel NEEDS PRAYERS NOW TO FIND THEM!. Zahra & Jonathan in heaven
    Justice for Hailey!!!!
    No Justice for Caylee Marie..........

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  35. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by elepher50 View Post
    Traditional Surrogate...had to look it up myself.
    Thanks!

    From my understanding of a surrogate - (1) they take a sample from the man and put it in the dish with an egg from the woman, and then implant the fertilized egg into the surrogate. Or (2), they take the sample from the man and artificially inseminate (hopefully) the surrogate.

    TPS has stated that she had a hysterectomy 10 years ago so she wouldn't have any eggs to implant, so #1 is out. And that comment "we did some insems" hmmmmm.

    So, is TPS on this site to get her OWN baby, because I thought that was their intention at the beginning of the saga, or is she just brokering deals?

    And if she is just brokering deals, what really was her intention with Gabriel? Were they planning (as I have thought) to raise him in their home, or would he have been "sold" to someone else?

    Sorry to sound so dim, but this is so outrageous I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it --

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  37. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by elepher50 View Post
    I know absolutely nothing about this whole process - so would the TS - traditional surrogate mean that the semen would be donated by JS? All of this confuses me.
    Usually the sperm would be donated from the husband or potential father but a traditional surrogate could also have been inseminated by an anonymous donor, using her own egg and then arrange to give the child up to the parents (even though the parents would have no genetic link to the baby). Does that make sense?

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  39. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by elepher50 View Post
    Lexington, I think you are right on the money with this and it is called "Global child traffiking for Adoption" and me thinks that it is probably very illegal. TS and JS need to be fetched up solid on monetary items will all things frozen until the "ins" and "outs" are investigated. Cripes she even has stated that she has travelled to Africa.
    I think this idea is absolutely ridiculous! It seems the conspiracy theories are getting out of hand and the obvious is being missed. Elizabeth simply didnt want her child. Here is what I think is most likely... The Smiths wanted a child, she lost hers to her spouse and wanted an instant family with her new husband. She met a troubled girl, mentioned that she had adopted her step grandchild and suggested that if Elizabeth was so unhappy that she would provide a loving home. Elizabeth was angry, spiteful, probably overwhelmed especially in light of the fact that she had little family to help support her and thought it was a good way to relieve her responsibility and spite Logan at the same time. When that didnt work out and she discovered that Logan was going to take the baby away from her, she decided to show him! I think she killed the baby. The Smiths are not much concerned because they know they havent done anything in the way of hiding this baby and they figure if he is alive, better he be missing than Logan have him since they cant have him themselves. They very ignorantly probably havent even fathomed that he is dead, because they think they know Elizabeth.
    Last edited by Bratlings; 01-09-2010 at 07:23 PM.

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  41. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by elepher50 View Post
    Hi Marigold,

    It was a response to TS stating

    Here is the screenshot:

    LE should check to see if the Crabb's ever adopted a baby via TS.
    I'm confused (but it's not the first time when trying to sort this case out, lol.)

    Do you mean that LE should investigate the musical Crabb family that TS mentioned, or the Pastor Crabb that other person mentioned? Btw, here's why I think Tammi was trying to either name drop or find something in common with the potential surrogate:

    At 4:11pm on November 25, 2008, Tammi Smith said…
    Where at in Kentucky? We moved from Nashvill,Tn to Arizona a year and a half ago. We know a lot of people in Kentucky. Have you heard of The Crabb Family? They are a Southern Gospel group out of KY. Are you willing to be AI and do a TS? Tammi



    At 4:20pm on November 25, 2008, Ashley Mills said…
    I'm not sure what and Al or Ts is could you give me more information on that? and I live an hour south of Lexington in a small town called London. I know a husband and wife with the last name Crabb Sandy & Joel ....he is a pastor....great family!

    At 4:38pm on November 25, 2008, Tammi Smith said…
    They might be related, but not part of the group. That's cool! Anyway TS means Traditional Surrogate. Meaning you are using your egg and being (AI) artificially insiminated. Hope that helps!

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  43. #922
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    I still can't get over her yelling at M Klaas. I was shocked. He is just a top notch person all the way around and certainly deserves much greater respect.

    I just don't know where NG's head is sometimes.
    I sometimes wonder why Marc even bothers appearing on her show the way he's treated.
    Rest in Peace
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  45. #923
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    Okay, what is meant by this:
    We actually just did insems a few minutes ago! If you need anything, .let me know. Good Luck, Tammi
    http://www.surrogatemother.com/profile/AshleyMills
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  47. #924
    Quote Originally Posted by elepher50 View Post
    I imagine insemination?
    Not sure.

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  49. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marigold View Post
    I'm confused (but it's not the first time when trying to sort this case out, lol.)

    Do you mean that LE should investigate the musical Crabb family that TS mentioned, or the Pastor Crabb that other person mentioned? Btw, here's why I think Tammi was trying to either name drop or find something in common with the potential surrogate:

    At 4:11pm on November 25, 2008, Tammi Smith said…
    Where at in Kentucky? We moved from Nashvill,Tn to Arizona a year and a half ago. We know a lot of people in Kentucky. Have you heard of The Crabb Family? They are a Southern Gospel group out of KY. Are you willing to be AI and do a TS? Tammi



    At 4:20pm on November 25, 2008, Ashley Mills said…
    I'm not sure what and Al or Ts is could you give me more information on that? and I live an hour south of Lexington in a small town called London. I know a husband and wife with the last name Crabb Sandy & Joel ....he is a pastor....great family!

    At 4:38pm on November 25, 2008, Tammi Smith said…
    They might be related, but not part of the group. That's cool! Anyway TS means Traditional Surrogate. Meaning you are using your egg and being (AI) artificially insiminated. Hope that helps!
    The Pastor Crabb's to see if TS ever supplied a baby to them not the musical Crabbs.

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